We Need Government Healthcare Like Canada!

[Ray From Cleveland]

Unicorn chasing is a more realistic endeavor than single payer for all. Very little support in this country. Sanders supporters tell you differently but #'s wise they are fringe. So nothing to discuss here.

Every other advanced post-industrial nation on the planet can, has, and enjoys better healthcare outcomes, life expectancies, and with less waste and experience for society.

Settle. The american way.

And yet, none of you people on the left ever move to one of these utopias you talk about so often.

 

[Dragonlady]

If Medicare is extended to all, patients will have a choice of about 95% of all doctors in the country and essentially all major general hospitals. As for private insurance, 53% of the insurance plans have very narrow networks with a very limited choice of local doctors and hospitals and no out of network coverage. Most of the remainder of the plans with larger networks cover only part of the state where the policy holder lives and either have out of network coverage available with a much higher copay or with no out of network coverage at all. Medicare has is the best option when comes to choice of providers.
In Search Of Insurance Savings, Consumers Can Get Unwittingly Wedged Into Narrow-Network Plans

That goes back to my earlier question: if we all had this Medicare for all, we would all want the best doctors and hospitals. Since that can't be done, who would make the decision on who goes where?

First come, first serve. You asked this question before. I can walk into any hospital in Ontario and ask to be served, and if I'm waiting for surgery and another hospital has openings, I can go to that hospital for the surgery. But I'm always going to pick a hospital near my home or family.

When I lived in Toronto, I had my choice of any hospital in the downtown core I wanted to go to. I always picked Toronto General because I liked it best. Turns out, it's the best hospital in Canada. Two out of the four top hospitals in Canada were the one's I chose to go to. In an ambulance, I was asked which hospital I wanted to go to, and was give three choices (the three closest), I chose Sunnbrook. It's No. 4 in Canada.

First come--first serve doesn't always work with people here. I don't want to have to take a number. I want to get treated by X in X facility when services are needed. Why is it out of all the elderly people I've spoken with from Canada, your experiences are the exact opposite?

So basically you're a whiny selfish prick. Yeah, you won't like everyone one being equal to you. Maybe that's your issue with Medicare now Ray.

My only issue with Medicare is the program is partly responsible for individual and group insurance being so expensive. Yes, I like the idea I can go where I want for care. I don't like the idea of government telling me where I can go, because like anything else, Democrats politicize everything.

The government doesn't tell me where I can go. The market tells me where I can go. I no longer go to Toronto General Hospital because it's an hour and a half away and my current doctor doesn't have admitting privileges there. I go to the local hospital because it's less than 5 minutes away, and my doctor's office is there.

My surgeon is in another town, about a half an hour's drive from here. If I have to go for an MRI, I have choice between Niagara Falls or St. Catharines. I'll go to Niaragara Falls every single time, because after I'm done, I'm in Niagara Falls.

 

[Flopper]

If Medicare is extended to all, patients will have a choice of about 95% of all doctors in the country and essentially all major general hospitals. As for private insurance, 53% of the insurance plans have very narrow networks with a very limited choice of local doctors and hospitals and no out of network coverage. Most of the remainder of the plans with larger networks cover only part of the state where the policy holder lives and either have out of network coverage available with a much higher copay or with no out of network coverage at all. Medicare has is the best option when comes to choice of providers.
In Search Of Insurance Savings, Consumers Can Get Unwittingly Wedged Into Narrow-Network Plans

That goes back to my earlier question: if we all had this Medicare for all, we would all want the best doctors and hospitals. Since that can't be done, who would make the decision on who goes where?

First come, first serve. You asked this question before. I can walk into any hospital in Ontario and ask to be served, and if I'm waiting for surgery and another hospital has openings, I can go to that hospital for the surgery. But I'm always going to pick a hospital near my home or family.

When I lived in Toronto, I had my choice of any hospital in the downtown core I wanted to go to. I always picked Toronto General because I liked it best. Turns out, it's the best hospital in Canada. Two out of the four top hospitals in Canada were the one's I chose to go to. In an ambulance, I was asked which hospital I wanted to go to, and was give three choices (the three closest), I chose Sunnbrook. It's No. 4 in Canada.

First come--first serve doesn't always work with people here. I don't want to have to take a number. I want to get treated by X in X facility when services are needed. Why is it out of all the elderly people I've spoken with from Canada, your experiences are the exact opposite?

So basically you're a whiny selfish prick. Yeah, you won't like everyone one being equal to you. Maybe that's your issue with Medicare now Ray.

My only issue with Medicare is the program is partly responsible for individual and group insurance being so expensive. Yes, I like the idea I can go where I want for care. I don't like the idea of government telling me where I can go, because like anything else, Democrats politicize everything.

Telling you where you can go for Medical Care is what insurance companies do, not Medicare. And how does your insurance company determine who you get to see? They negotiate will doctors and hospitals selecting those that will accept the lowest reimbursement rate in order to maximize profits. It's the old health insurance axiom, "Maximize Premiums and Minimize Claims".

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That goes back to my earlier question: if we all had this Medicare for all, we would all want the best doctors and hospitals. Since that can't be done, who would make the decision on who goes where?

First come, first serve. You asked this question before. I can walk into any hospital in Ontario and ask to be served, and if I'm waiting for surgery and another hospital has openings, I can go to that hospital for the surgery. But I'm always going to pick a hospital near my home or family.

When I lived in Toronto, I had my choice of any hospital in the downtown core I wanted to go to. I always picked Toronto General because I liked it best. Turns out, it's the best hospital in Canada. Two out of the four top hospitals in Canada were the one's I chose to go to. In an ambulance, I was asked which hospital I wanted to go to, and was give three choices (the three closest), I chose Sunnbrook. It's No. 4 in Canada.

First come--first serve doesn't always work with people here. I don't want to have to take a number. I want to get treated by X in X facility when services are needed. Why is it out of all the elderly people I've spoken with from Canada, your experiences are the exact opposite?

So basically you're a whiny selfish prick. Yeah, you won't like everyone one being equal to you. Maybe that's your issue with Medicare now Ray.

My only issue with Medicare is the program is partly responsible for individual and group insurance being so expensive. Yes, I like the idea I can go where I want for care. I don't like the idea of government telling me where I can go, because like anything else, Democrats politicize everything.

Telling you where you can go for Medical Care is what insurance companies do, not Medicare. And how does your insurance company determine who you get to see? They negotiate will doctors and hospitals selecting those that will accept the lowest reimbursement rate in order to maximize profits. It's the old health insurance axiom, "Maximize Premiums and Minimize Claims".

While this is true, you can get insurance that does have contracts with your doctor or facility. It might not be easy or cheap, but it can be done. With government monopolizing the industry, then you go where they tell you.

When I talk to Canadian drivers, the young and middle-aged people love their system. The older ones warned me about supporting the same in our country. So once it's there, you'll never get rid of it. Senior citizens (or any one group of people) would be the minority, so even a public vote won't get rid of it yet alone any politician or party. Now that I'm reaching that age, I fear healthcare rationing since it's the older folks that would suck up most of the resources and costs.

 

[Markle]

We have all of our basic care covered and paid for by taxes. I get to shop where I want my care from, so in that regard, I have far more freedom in deciding my care than you do. I can pick my doctors, my hospitals, and where I go for care. My doctor and I decide my care, not my insurance company, and not my "network".

That's why we have 7% administration costs and the USA has over 30% administration. Tort reform, at most will reduce insurance premium costs by 2 - 3.5%. Eliminating private insurance for all doctors visits and hospital care, eliminates 25% of your administration costs.

I prepared this a couple of years ago before the Trump Tax Cuts so we (United States) would net a bit more today. I used a married couple with two young kids.

 

[Markle]

First come, first serve. You asked this question before. I can walk into any hospital in Ontario and ask to be served, and if I'm waiting for surgery and another hospital has openings, I can go to that hospital for the surgery. But I'm always going to pick a hospital near my home or family.

When I lived in Toronto, I had my choice of any hospital in the downtown core I wanted to go to. I always picked Toronto General because I liked it best. Turns out, it's the best hospital in Canada. Two out of the four top hospitals in Canada were the one's I chose to go to. In an ambulance, I was asked which hospital I wanted to go to, and was give three choices (the three closest), I chose Sunnbrook. It's No. 4 in Canada.

Waiting in Canada

 

[Weatherman2020]

We have all of our basic care covered and paid for by taxes. I get to shop where I want my care from, so in that regard, I have far more freedom in deciding my care than you do. I can pick my doctors, my hospitals, and where I go for care. My doctor and I decide my care, not my insurance company, and not my "network".

That's why we have 7% administration costs and the USA has over 30% administration. Tort reform, at most will reduce insurance premium costs by 2 - 3.5%. Eliminating private insurance for all doctors visits and hospital care, eliminates 25% of your administration costs.

I prepared this a couple of years ago before the Trump Tax Cuts so we (United States) would net a bit more today. I used a married couple with two young kids.

But it’s FREE!!!

 

[Markle]

Folks on Medicare now don't hate it at all. Only America, of all advanced post-industrial nations, is too crippled both intellectually and reflexively to move into the 21st century, so we pay more than anyone for shitter healthcare outcomes. A little due diligence vaporizes sloganeering.

Of course, I love it, it's FREE MONEY! What's not to love?

I had an HMO for decades before I retired. In my 60s my monthly premium reached over $1,200. a month for me alone. I took advantage of Medicare Advantage or whatever it is and simply kept the same coverage but now Medicare paid and they paid less than $300.00 per month that comes out of my check.

Unfunded liabilities:

We have the best outcomes in the world because we have the finest facilities, available technology, techniques and we develop the most life-extending and life-saving drugs.

 

[Weatherman2020]

First come, first serve. You asked this question before. I can walk into any hospital in Ontario and ask to be served, and if I'm waiting for surgery and another hospital has openings, I can go to that hospital for the surgery. But I'm always going to pick a hospital near my home or family.

When I lived in Toronto, I had my choice of any hospital in the downtown core I wanted to go to. I always picked Toronto General because I liked it best. Turns out, it's the best hospital in Canada. Two out of the four top hospitals in Canada were the one's I chose to go to. In an ambulance, I was asked which hospital I wanted to go to, and was give three choices (the three closest), I chose Sunnbrook. It's No. 4 in Canada.

Waiting in Canada

And what’s not discussed is the quality of doctors is very poor in Canada. No one worth a damn will spend the time and money to become a doctor to practice in Canada for pennies.

 

[Markle]

So many people talking about the great Medicare For All system that would save us all!

However!

NO ONE has said where we would get the $40 TRILLION over ten years. Where?

Further, can anyone show us any major government program that costs LESS than the estimates after ten years? Far from it, just the opposite as everyone knows.

 

[Andylusion]

No, they haven't. The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess,

Absurd horseshit. As evidenced by the lower per capita spends ng and better health outcomes in every morning seen, developed country with universal healthcare. As evidenced by the astronomical costs on the USA for the same services, as compared to every other country on the planet. Get that bullshit out of here.

But they don't have better health outcomes. Every single time you compare survival rates between Europe and the US, we win. Every single time, you compare general health care outcomes, we win.

Now you are right that Europeans are generally speaking healthier. Yeah, because they are not murdering each other for example. Yeah life expectancy is higher if you are not shooting each other, or shooting up heroin.

Now unless you think that having government run a hospital, is magically going to allow doctors to stop homicides, then your point is not valid.

We have better care, than anyone in Europe. That's why people in Europe routinely come to the US, and other countries, to pay for care. Because gov-care sucks.

 

[Andylusion]

First come, first serve. You asked this question before. I can walk into any hospital in Ontario and ask to be served, and if I'm waiting for surgery and another hospital has openings, I can go to that hospital for the surgery. But I'm always going to pick a hospital near my home or family.

When I lived in Toronto, I had my choice of any hospital in the downtown core I wanted to go to. I always picked Toronto General because I liked it best. Turns out, it's the best hospital in Canada. Two out of the four top hospitals in Canada were the one's I chose to go to. In an ambulance, I was asked which hospital I wanted to go to, and was give three choices (the three closest), I chose Sunnbrook. It's No. 4 in Canada.

Waiting in Canada

And what’s not discussed is the quality of doctors is very poor in Canada. No one worth a damn will spend the time and money to become a doctor to practice in Canada for pennies.

Canadian medical students routinely come to the US to practice.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So many people talking about the great Medicare For All system that would save us all!

However!

NO ONE has said where we would get the $40 TRILLION over ten years. Where?

Further, can anyone show us any major government program that costs LESS than the estimates after ten years? Far from it, just the opposite as everyone knows.

They would attempt to get the money where they always get it, from the wealthy. If we are having too high of a deficit and debt, it's because of tax breaks for the wealthy. If we need reparations for black Democrat voters, get it from the wealthy. Free college? Tax the wealthy. Medicare for all? Tax the wealthy. Everything about the left is tax the wealthy.

 

[Markle]

So many people talking about the great Medicare For All system that would save us all!

However!

NO ONE has said where we would get the $40 TRILLION over ten years. Where?

Further, can anyone show us any major government program that costs LESS than the estimates after ten years? Far from it, just the opposite as everyone knows.

They would attempt to get the money where they always get it, from the wealthy. If we are having too high of a deficit and debt, it's because of tax breaks for the wealthy. If we need reparations for black Democrat voters, get it from the wealthy. Free college? Tax the wealthy. Medicare for all? Tax the wealthy. Everything about the left is tax the wealthy.

Confiscate everything the "wealthy" have and, as you know, it is still not enough.

 

[Bo Didleysquat]

If Medicare is extended to all, patients will have a choice of about 95% of all doctors in the country and essentially all major general hospitals. As for private insurance, 53% of the insurance plans have very narrow networks with a very limited choice of local doctors and hospitals and no out of network coverage. Most of the remainder of the plans with larger networks cover only part of the state where the policy holder lives and either have out of network coverage available with a much higher copay or with no out of network coverage at all. Medicare has is the best option when comes to choice of providers.
In Search Of Insurance Savings, Consumers Can Get Unwittingly Wedged Into Narrow-Network Plans

That goes back to my earlier question: if we all had this Medicare for all, we would all want the best doctors and hospitals. Since that can't be done, who would make the decision on who goes where?

First come, first serve. You asked this question before. I can walk into any hospital in Ontario and ask to be served, and if I'm waiting for surgery and another hospital has openings, I can go to that hospital for the surgery. But I'm always going to pick a hospital near my home or family.

When I lived in Toronto, I had my choice of any hospital in the downtown core I wanted to go to. I always picked Toronto General because I liked it best. Turns out, it's the best hospital in Canada. Two out of the four top hospitals in Canada were the one's I chose to go to. In an ambulance, I was asked which hospital I wanted to go to, and was give three choices (the three closest), I chose Sunnbrook. It's No. 4 in Canada.

First come--first serve doesn't always work with people here. I don't want to have to take a number. I want to get treated by X in X facility when services are needed. Why is it out of all the elderly people I've spoken with from Canada, your experiences are the exact opposite?

So basically you're a whiny selfish prick. Yeah, you won't like everyone one being equal to you. Maybe that's your issue with Medicare now Ray.

My only issue with Medicare is the program is partly responsible for individual and group insurance being so expensive. Yes, I like the idea I can go where I want for care. I don't like the idea of government telling me where I can go, because like anything else, Democrats politicize everything.

No, americans do. I have Medicare, I do go where I want, and it's tons better than anything I've had through an employer for decades. You got issues man.

 

[Bo Didleysquat]

So many people talking about the great Medicare For All system that would save us all!

However!

NO ONE has said where we would get the $40 TRILLION over ten years. Where?

Further, can anyone show us any major government program that costs LESS than the estimates after ten years? Far from it, just the opposite as everyone knows.

They would attempt to get the money where they always get it, from the wealthy. If we are having too high of a deficit and debt, it's because of tax breaks for the wealthy. If we need reparations for black Democrat voters, get it from the wealthy. Free college? Tax the wealthy. Medicare for all? Tax the wealthy. Everything about the left is tax the wealthy.

Confiscate everything the "wealthy" have and, as you know, it is still not enough.

It is the captains of capital who can never have enough, that's why they bought your govt, electoral process and media machine.

 

[Bo Didleysquat]

Unicorn chasing is a more realistic endeavor than single payer for all. Very little support in this country. Sanders supporters tell you differently but #'s wise they are fringe. So nothing to discuss here.

Every other advanced post-industrial nation on the planet can, has, and enjoys better healthcare outcomes, life expectancies, and with less waste and experience for society.

Settle. The american way.

And yet, none of you people on the left ever move to one of these utopias you talk about so often.

Like you've been told, Medicare is great. Why are you so annoyed with your utopia here?

 

[Bo Didleysquat]

First come, first serve. You asked this question before. I can walk into any hospital in Ontario and ask to be served, and if I'm waiting for surgery and another hospital has openings, I can go to that hospital for the surgery. But I'm always going to pick a hospital near my home or family.

When I lived in Toronto, I had my choice of any hospital in the downtown core I wanted to go to. I always picked Toronto General because I liked it best. Turns out, it's the best hospital in Canada. Two out of the four top hospitals in Canada were the one's I chose to go to. In an ambulance, I was asked which hospital I wanted to go to, and was give three choices (the three closest), I chose Sunnbrook. It's No. 4 in Canada.

First come--first serve doesn't always work with people here. I don't want to have to take a number. I want to get treated by X in X facility when services are needed. Why is it out of all the elderly people I've spoken with from Canada, your experiences are the exact opposite?

So basically you're a whiny selfish prick. Yeah, you won't like everyone one being equal to you. Maybe that's your issue with Medicare now Ray.

My only issue with Medicare is the program is partly responsible for individual and group insurance being so expensive. Yes, I like the idea I can go where I want for care. I don't like the idea of government telling me where I can go, because like anything else, Democrats politicize everything.

Telling you where you can go for Medical Care is what insurance companies do, not Medicare. And how does your insurance company determine who you get to see? They negotiate will doctors and hospitals selecting those that will accept the lowest reimbursement rate in order to maximize profits. It's the old health insurance axiom, "Maximize Premiums and Minimize Claims".

While this is true, you can get insurance that does have contracts with your doctor or facility. It might not be easy or cheap, but it can be done. With government monopolizing the industry, then you go where they tell you.

When I talk to Canadian drivers, the young and middle-aged people love their system. The older ones warned me about supporting the same in our country. So once it's there, you'll never get rid of it. Senior citizens (or any one group of people) would be the minority, so even a public vote won't get rid of it yet alone any politician or party. Now that I'm reaching that age, I fear healthcare rationing since it's the older folks that would suck up most of the resources and costs.

While this is true, you can get insurance that does have contracts with your doctor or facility. It might not be easy or cheap, but it can be done. With government monopolizing the industry, then you go where they tell you.

No, and apparently you can't.

When I talk to Canadian drivers, ...

I love anecdotes. Don't you?

Now that I'm reaching that age, ...

So you're not on Medicare yet?

 

[Bo Didleysquat]

That goes back to my earlier question: if we all had this Medicare for all, we would all want the best doctors and hospitals. Since that can't be done, who would make the decision on who goes where?

First come, first serve. You asked this question before. I can walk into any hospital in Ontario and ask to be served, and if I'm waiting for surgery and another hospital has openings, I can go to that hospital for the surgery. But I'm always going to pick a hospital near my home or family.

When I lived in Toronto, I had my choice of any hospital in the downtown core I wanted to go to. I always picked Toronto General because I liked it best. Turns out, it's the best hospital in Canada. Two out of the four top hospitals in Canada were the one's I chose to go to. In an ambulance, I was asked which hospital I wanted to go to, and was give three choices (the three closest), I chose Sunnbrook. It's No. 4 in Canada.

First come--first serve doesn't always work with people here. I don't want to have to take a number. I want to get treated by X in X facility when services are needed. Why is it out of all the elderly people I've spoken with from Canada, your experiences are the exact opposite?

So basically you're a whiny selfish prick. Yeah, you won't like everyone one being equal to you. Maybe that's your issue with Medicare now Ray.

My only issue with Medicare is the program is partly responsible for individual and group insurance being so expensive. Yes, I like the idea I can go where I want for care. I don't like the idea of government telling me where I can go, because like anything else, Democrats politicize everything.

The government doesn't tell me where I can go. The market tells me where I can go. I no longer go to Toronto General Hospital because it's an hour and a half away and my current doctor doesn't have admitting privileges there. I go to the local hospital because it's less than 5 minutes away, and my doctor's office is there.

My surgeon is in another town, about a half an hour's drive from here. If I have to go for an MRI, I have choice between Niagara Falls or St. Catharines. I'll go to Niaragara Falls every single time, because after I'm done, I'm in Niagara Falls.

Thank you for attempting to inform Ray.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Unicorn chasing is a more realistic endeavor than single payer for all. Very little support in this country. Sanders supporters tell you differently but #'s wise they are fringe. So nothing to discuss here.

Every other advanced post-industrial nation on the planet can, has, and enjoys better healthcare outcomes, life expectancies, and with less waste and experience for society.

Settle. The american way.

And yet, none of you people on the left ever move to one of these utopias you talk about so often.

Like you've been told, Medicare is great. Why are you so annoyed with your utopia here?

I'm not. That's why I'm arguing against government taking over healthcare.