Want Education Reform? Start With Higher Ed

Discussion in 'Education' started by chanel, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    Pajamas Media » Want Education Reform? Start With Higher Ed

    Interesting ideas. Comments?
     
  2. California Girl
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    California Girl BANNED

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    Also, if they taught properly and focused on learning.... they could cut the length of time it takes to get a degree, thereby reducing the cost for students. Radical, I know, but I'm a believer in making it cheaper, and more accessible for students.
     
  3. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I agree in principle, but would seriously focus on the problems with education at the education departments at universities. So many of those that choose education for their majors are non-rigorous thinkers themselves. Like the department they enroll in, critical thinking is not required, indeed it's often like a rep circle.

    Whatever is the current 'new fad' professors incorporate into the methodologies and students dutifully write them into their notes, then into their lesson plans. Of course textbooks written according to the parameters of the new fads will be churned out, all alternative methods dumped. When scores drop, parents and school boards will wonder at the connections, complain, then demand change. The university professors writing the books, with their TA's doing most of the work and convinced that the new fad is just 'the best', will claim that indeed the texts contain the new fad, but that the underlying concepts along with traditional methods are still there.

    Eventually new texts will come out, throwing in some of the old examples, without any explanation and often not in the relevant section of the concept it exemplifies.

    See new math; whole language; the new, new math (often called 'fuzzy math'). It's a nice gig for the professors, professors in training, and textbook companies.
     
  4. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Odd that our US College and university system, -- a system that is the envy of the rest of the world -- is thought to be a faulure.

    Is this the new line the GOP is telling you guys, now?
     
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  5. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    It's difficult to take seriously an article that starts with "Left-wing ideologues are firmly in control of the humanities and liberal arts" and that is from Pajamas Media.

    But of course, the solution is religious colleges!

    Their idea for "real competition and effective student choice" is just begging to be misused.

    Of course, we know for-profit colleges (the definition of competition) don't commit fraud:

    For-profit school - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


     
  6. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    It's funny you say that. When I was in grad school, I was always the one the professors looked to when discussing whole language, new math, cooperative learning, multiculturalism, inclusion, etc because they knew I would challenge those theories that made no sense. I would get a wink and a nod from many of the traditionalists. And as we've seen, whole language has hurt an entire generation of kids.

    But I'm glad people are discussing this issue. College tuition has become unaffordable to people and students are being stuck with debt for a worthless education. It can be a scam of enormous proportions. Let the buyer beware.
     
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  7. WorldWatcher
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    WorldWatcher Gold Member

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    [​IMG]






    True, but the real question is were they looking to you because of your brains, maybe it was the low cut top or short skirt.



    Ahhh, college - Good Times. Chicks dig Navy guys in uniform. :)

    :eusa_angel:

    >>>>>
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  8. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    Well this is what happens when you have state governments who are putting more and more on the burden of college tuition on the student. College is once again becoming something that only the rich can partake in, taking a step back to a previous generation.

    However, what I don't get is the "worthless education" line. Is it because you consider their major useless? I'm pretty sure majors that are considered "useless" would not be gone if the debt responsibility was shifted completely to the student. No, what will happen however is that everybody goes to school for the same five majors. Why? Because the cost of college will be so high that will need a job that will be able to pay off said loans. And what will eventually happen there is those five job markets will dry up because everybody went into those fields.
     
  9. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Education is one of the few areas of life where the cost have actually risen even faster than health care.

    So there definitely is a problem in higher education, but it's not the curricula, it's in the cost of providing it.

    And my guess is that those cost are mostly coming at schools from higher expenses in heating and cooling the buildings, providing health care insurance for their staff and other expenses no directly associated with providing education.

    School are responding by cutting back on what courses they offer, not giving professors full time jobs or tenure (the real tenure, not the k-12 tenure) and of course jacking up prices.

    What percentage of American families can afford $35,000 a year to send their kids to university?

    2%?


    Hell folks a community college in Seattle costs like $12,000 a year, now. And that is ONLY tuition, too.

    I mean who the hell has that kind of dough laying around to send their kid off to college?

    40 years of declining purchasing power for the working classes, even as the cost of higher ED was rising at rates of 10%+ year after year, and guess what?

    Our kids cannot afford to get that education they need to compete in tomorrow's working world.

    But meanwhile this nation can afford any amount for EMPIRE BUILDING?

    At $50,000 per year for college, every BILLION bucks could send 20,000 students to college.

    Something to put this all in perspective?

    $56.3 billion fiscal year 2011 Homeland Security request: (that's 1,126, 000 student tuitions @ $50 k)

    $895 billion requested in the FY 2011 DoD budget ( That's 17,900,000 student tuitions @$50K)

    Now obviously we need a military and we also need something like HSA.

    But the above does give us some indication of the OPPORTUNITY COSTS of maintaining EMPIRE.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  10. WorldWatcher
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    Total cost of attendance (TCA) varies greatly by (a) school and (b) local or far away.

    For example TCA for an in-state Student at the University of Virginia is around $23,000. My daughter was competitive at Cornell & Stanford and I thank heaven she didn't get in there as costs were in the neighborhood of $40,000-$60,000 PER YEAR.

    The very best thing parents can do to insulate themselves from SOME of those costs is to find out if your State has a Pre-paid Education Program (PEP), which is different then a 429 College Savings Program. With a pre-paid program you have a contract with the state to purchase a set amount of time in terms of tuition. When your kids enter a State University, their tuition is paid for that time period. A 429 plan acts more like a 401K where you deposit money into a tax free investment account and then draw that money out later for school.

    With two children that would be in college we established two PEP account, one for each and paid $100 a month (each) for 2-years at a University. Over the course of about 10 years. When the kids graduated high school they each had 2 years at a university paid for. Our son stayed local (lived at home) and did a 2-by-2 program with a Community College. He stretched his 2-years at a University to 3.5-years of education because the lower cost of the community college stretched out the time. Since he works part-time he will graduate debt free. Our daughter on the other hand wanted to "full university experience" so she attends college away from home. She understands the financial situation and choose to incur student loans, that she will have to pay back in the future. But she has also worked very hard through a part-time job and through scholarships to keep those loan costs down. With the scholarships she will probably have money left in the account when she graduates. She can either draw it out or apply it toward a graduate degree.



    >>>>
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011

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