Voter Suppression and the Principles of Democracy

[Procrustes Stretched]

Voter Suppression and the Principles of Democracy: What could be more at odds with the principles of democracy than voter suppression, voter fraud? I'd say no, depending on the scale.

Voter fraud, if and when it can be found, and I do believe it exists, would have to reach huge proportions to destroy the process we in the USA use in our system of democratic elections. I am not denying there isn't any fraud during any particular election.

While I view fraud as wrong. However, I accept that in an imperfect system like ours, or any other system I know of, a certain amount of fraud is inevitable, if not tolerable, to a sense of justice and fairness. Think of starting a small business, which would be open to the public. To insist on preventing all theft would be impractical. Either all customers would have to be terribly inconvenienced, and/or the prevention techniques of the perfect system would be cost prohibitive.

Likewise, I believe Voter Suppression if and where it can be found, and I do believe it also exists along with voter fraud, would have to reach huge proportions to destroy the process we in the USA use in our system of democratic elections. Voter suppression has a well documented history in the USA. The techniques used to suppress the vote spans the spectrum from distasteful to horrific. But as things move slowly in a society like ours, a democratic society alongside a republican form of government, we correct things, we right wrongs, we attempt to live up to what many of us view as our better natures.

Now we come to the meat of the matter: Voter I.D. laws. Do I support the concept? You Betcha.

But...Some things just aren't right.

Twelve years after disputes about hanging chads and butterfly ballots cast doubt on the credibility of the outcome of a presidential election, the integrity of the election process again has become a partisan issue. If the race between President Obama and Mitt Romney is a close one, look for the losing side to blame the outcome on either fraud or voter suppression. At this point the latter looks to be the bigger problem.

-- counterintuitive as it may seem to middle-class Americans — a significant number of voters do not have a photo ID

It's how we get there that counts. Sacrificing the principles of democracy to partisan gains benefits no one on the long run. Corrupting the process to the point that the system pronounces it's own principles as anathema.

To say that fraud is minimal doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that states shouldn't endeavor to make it less possible. Some proposed reforms, such as a system for checking voter lists against other government databases, would increase both accuracy and involvement. Even a photo ID requirement might be acceptable if states not only supplied IDs free of charge but also eliminated hurdles that make them difficult to obtain, such as inconveniently located driver's license centers or backlogged birth registries.

You betcha! [ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RwWXs2NvII[/ame]

 

[GuyPinestra]

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner....

 

[Full-Auto]

Voter Suppression and the Principles of Democracy: What could be more at odds with the principles of democracy than voter suppression, voter fraud? I'd say no, depending on the scale.

Voter fraud, if and when it can be found, and I do believe it exists, would have to reach huge proportions to destroy the process we in the USA use in our system of democratic elections. I am not denying there isn't any fraud during any particular election.

While I view fraud as wrong. However, I accept that in an imperfect system like ours, or any other system I know of, a certain amount of fraud is inevitable, if not tolerable, to a sense of justice and fairness. Think of starting a small business, which would be open to the public. To insist on preventing all theft would be impractical. Either all customers would have to be terribly inconvenienced, and/or the prevention techniques of the perfect system would be cost prohibitive.

Likewise, I believe Voter Suppression if and where it can be found, and I do believe it also exists along with voter fraud, would have to reach huge proportions to destroy the process we in the USA use in our system of democratic elections. Voter suppression has a well documented history in the USA. The techniques used to suppress the vote spans the spectrum from distasteful to horrific. But as things move slowly in a society like ours, a democratic society alongside a republican form of government, we correct things, we right wrongs, we attempt to live up to what many of us view as our better natures.

Now we come to the meat of the matter: Voter I.D. laws. Do I support the concept? You Betcha.

But...Some things just aren't right.

Twelve years after disputes about hanging chads and butterfly ballots cast doubt on the credibility of the outcome of a presidential election, the integrity of the election process again has become a partisan issue. If the race between President Obama and Mitt Romney is a close one, look for the losing side to blame the outcome on either fraud or voter suppression. At this point the latter looks to be the bigger problem.

-- counterintuitive as it may seem to middle-class Americans — a significant number of voters do not have a photo ID

It's how we get there that counts. Sacrificing the principles of democracy to partisan gains benefits no one on the long run. Corrupting the process to the point that the system pronounces it's own principles as anathema.

To say that fraud is minimal doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that states shouldn't endeavor to make it less possible. Some proposed reforms, such as a system for checking voter lists against other government databases, would increase both accuracy and involvement. Even a photo ID requirement might be acceptable if states not only supplied IDs free of charge but also eliminated hurdles that make them difficult to obtain, such as inconveniently located driver's license centers or backlogged birth registries.

You betcha! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RwWXs2NvII]Sarah Palin: You Betcha Trailer - YouTube[/ame]

If and When?

My god you are an idiot.....

Wa st. Where a thousand votes more then voters is the norm.

I suggest you look up the sec of states remarks on this subject...

Then shut the fuck up.

 

[WillowTree]

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner....

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Does the Texas Voter ID Law Discriminate Against Blacks, Hispanics?
The three-panel judge likely will decide before the November elections.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If and When?

My god you are an idiot.....

Wa st. Where a thousand votes more then voters is the norm.

I suggest you look up the sec of states remarks on this subject...

Then shut the fuck up.

percentages?

please try and make a coherent point or stfu

 

[Full-Auto]

If and When?

My god you are an idiot.....

Wa st. Where a thousand votes more then voters is the norm.

I suggest you look up the sec of states remarks on this subject...

Then shut the fuck up.

percentages?

please try and make a coherent point or stfu

Oh now you want percentages. If they are low you dont mind fucking people over.

So what has changed............Nothing.

 

[whitehall]

It's not surprising that the Alinsky left wing radicals would quote the "principals of democracy" while advocating voter fraud and it's no surprise that the left wing racists would claim that Black people are too dumb to obtain a photo I.D.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Dead Men Shouldn't Vote

Even if that 10% of all voters and responsible for Democrats wiinning

 

[candycorn]

Voter Suppression and the Principles of Democracy: What could be more at odds with the principles of democracy than voter suppression, voter fraud? I'd say no, depending on the scale.

Voter fraud, if and when it can be found, and I do believe it exists, would have to reach huge proportions to destroy the process we in the USA use in our system of democratic elections. I am not denying there isn't any fraud during any particular election.

While I view fraud as wrong. However, I accept that in an imperfect system like ours, or any other system I know of, a certain amount of fraud is inevitable, if not tolerable, to a sense of justice and fairness. Think of starting a small business, which would be open to the public. To insist on preventing all theft would be impractical. Either all customers would have to be terribly inconvenienced, and/or the prevention techniques of the perfect system would be cost prohibitive.

Likewise, I believe Voter Suppression if and where it can be found, and I do believe it also exists along with voter fraud, would have to reach huge proportions to destroy the process we in the USA use in our system of democratic elections. Voter suppression has a well documented history in the USA. The techniques used to suppress the vote spans the spectrum from distasteful to horrific. But as things move slowly in a society like ours, a democratic society alongside a republican form of government, we correct things, we right wrongs, we attempt to live up to what many of us view as our better natures.

Now we come to the meat of the matter: Voter I.D. laws. Do I support the concept? You Betcha.

But...Some things just aren't right.

Twelve years after disputes about hanging chads and butterfly ballots cast doubt on the credibility of the outcome of a presidential election, the integrity of the election process again has become a partisan issue. If the race between President Obama and Mitt Romney is a close one, look for the losing side to blame the outcome on either fraud or voter suppression. At this point the latter looks to be the bigger problem.

-- counterintuitive as it may seem to middle-class Americans — a significant number of voters do not have a photo ID

It's how we get there that counts. Sacrificing the principles of democracy to partisan gains benefits no one on the long run. Corrupting the process to the point that the system pronounces it's own principles as anathema.

To say that fraud is minimal doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that states shouldn't endeavor to make it less possible. Some proposed reforms, such as a system for checking voter lists against other government databases, would increase both accuracy and involvement. Even a photo ID requirement might be acceptable if states not only supplied IDs free of charge but also eliminated hurdles that make them difficult to obtain, such as inconveniently located driver's license centers or backlogged birth registries.

You betcha! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RwWXs2NvII]Sarah Palin: You Betcha Trailer - YouTube[/ame]

Well, there are simple; common sense ways to eleviate voter fraud; instead of the state issuing a voter registration card, simply issue one with a picture ID. If the community college down the street can master the technology....the federal government should be able to do so.

As for whether or not it is serious, yes it is.

No President will ever be elected on strictly fraud.

One has to remember though that there are a great many down-ticket races and off year elections that have very small turnout.

In 2004, the supervisor of elections in Palm Beach County lost by a few percentage points which translated into a couple of hundred votes. This isn't a big deal in and of itself. However, the noteworthing thing about her losing was that this was the same person who approved the butterfly ballot. The butterfly ballot that was used in the 2000 election. The butterfly ballot which caused Pat Buchanan to get a disproportionate number of votes that likely would have went to Al Gore. The butterfly ballot that basically swung the State for George Bush and thus the election since Palm Beach County was in Florida.

As a result, we had a war in Iraq that Gore would have unlikely never considered staging. Thousands of American soldiers died, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed as a result.

Now, was this elections supervisor elected by fraudulent ballots? Nobody knows. Is it likely that some of the ballots for her (her name is Theresa LePore by the way) and against her were fraudulent? Yes. Why leave it to a greater degree of uncertainty than would otherwise be experienced?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If and When?

My god you are an idiot.....

Wa st. Where a thousand votes more then voters is the norm.

I suggest you look up the sec of states remarks on this subject...

Then shut the fuck up.

percentages?

please try and make a coherent point or stfu

Oh now you want percentages. If they are low you dont mind fucking people over.

So what has changed............Nothing.

you didn't read the post you commented on.

that makes you a huge idiot

 

[Full-Auto]

percentages?

please try and make a coherent point or stfu

Oh now you want percentages. If they are low you dont mind fucking people over.

So what has changed............Nothing.

you didn't read the post you commented on.

that makes you a huge idiot

The if and when immediately identified you as a bloomin idiot.

Then in little bitch fashion you through a fit with the neg rep.

How did that work out for you?

 

[tinydancer]

Why don't American liberals support Jimmy Carter? His one vote one rule?

You know, like the Carter Center monitoring elections and they believe in voter ID?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Dead Men Shouldn't Vote

Even if that 10% of all voters and responsible for Democrats wiinning

How about the brain dead, should you vote frank?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It's not surprising that the Alinsky left wing radicals would quote the "principals of democracy" while advocating voter fraud and it's no surprise that the left wing racists would claim that Black people are too dumb to obtain a photo I.D.

another one who obviously is commenting without having read the post.

two dummies down...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Dead Men Shouldn't Vote

Even if that 10% of all voters and responsible for Democrats wiinning

nope. voter fraud is bad. now what about voter suppression and can you respond to the OP or will you just join the losers who shout and rant and rave and...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Voter Suppression and the Principles of Democracy: What could be more at odds with the principles of democracy than voter suppression, voter fraud? I'd say no, depending on the scale.

Voter fraud, if and when it can be found, and I do believe it exists, would have to reach huge proportions to destroy the process we in the USA use in our system of democratic elections. I am not denying there isn't any fraud during any particular election.

While I view fraud as wrong. However, I accept that in an imperfect system like ours, or any other system I know of, a certain amount of fraud is inevitable, if not tolerable, to a sense of justice and fairness. Think of starting a small business, which would be open to the public. To insist on preventing all theft would be impractical. Either all customers would have to be terribly inconvenienced, and/or the prevention techniques of the perfect system would be cost prohibitive.

Likewise, I believe Voter Suppression if and where it can be found, and I do believe it also exists along with voter fraud, would have to reach huge proportions to destroy the process we in the USA use in our system of democratic elections. Voter suppression has a well documented history in the USA. The techniques used to suppress the vote spans the spectrum from distasteful to horrific. But as things move slowly in a society like ours, a democratic society alongside a republican form of government, we correct things, we right wrongs, we attempt to live up to what many of us view as our better natures.

Now we come to the meat of the matter: Voter I.D. laws. Do I support the concept? You Betcha.

But...Some things just aren't right.

Twelve years after disputes about hanging chads and butterfly ballots cast doubt on the credibility of the outcome of a presidential election, the integrity of the election process again has become a partisan issue. If the race between President Obama and Mitt Romney is a close one, look for the losing side to blame the outcome on either fraud or voter suppression. At this point the latter looks to be the bigger problem.

-- counterintuitive as it may seem to middle-class Americans — a significant number of voters do not have a photo ID

It's how we get there that counts. Sacrificing the principles of democracy to partisan gains benefits no one on the long run. Corrupting the process to the point that the system pronounces it's own principles as anathema.

To say that fraud is minimal doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that states shouldn't endeavor to make it less possible. Some proposed reforms, such as a system for checking voter lists against other government databases, would increase both accuracy and involvement. Even a photo ID requirement might be acceptable if states not only supplied IDs free of charge but also eliminated hurdles that make them difficult to obtain, such as inconveniently located driver's license centers or backlogged birth registries.

You betcha! youtube.com/watch?v=5RwWXs2NvII

we'll try again. it seems wingnuts are incapable of responding with credibility or valid arguments or coherent comments

 

[whitehall]

The left wing hypocrisy is stunning. We had a dozen posts last week criticizing the US Constitution and calling for new principles of democracy and now we get a lecture from a left winger about the old "principals of democracy". Ho hum.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Why don't American liberals support Jimmy Carter? His one vote one rule?

You know, like the Carter Center monitoring elections and they believe in voter ID?

I don't support most direct democracy plans. I believe in representative democracy -- you know -- like we have in the USA?

Do you even know what you are talking about? and Jimmy Carter was not loved by the liberals in 1976 - 1980 -- it's why we supported Senator Kennedy against a sitting President of our own party.

now go away

 

[Wry Catcher]

The only reason voter fraud is an issue now is because the GOP is desperate to return to power and know they cannot win on 1) their performance; 2) their ideas(?) laughable, really; and 3) without suppressing the votes of those they believe will not vote for a small tent party.

I believe if the GOP cannot win this year using dirty tricks, CU v. FEC and voter suppression the Republican Party will fade away and be replaced by a party of RINO's (those appalled by what has happened to their party) and the right wing fringe which now controls the Congress and many state legislators.

Even if they win, and govern as they have in the past, the win will be Pyhrric - for what they advocate benefits the haves and punishes the rest and the vast majority of real Americans will send them packing in 2014 and 2016. If elections occur and we have not collapsed into a pure plutocarcy where only one party is allowed.