Vietnam War and question for the boomer generation

[rightwinger]

Thats what they said about bin Laden till he turned on us

Reagan supported him

 

[Mac-7]

Reagan supported him

Nonsense

the US congress pushed for aid to the afghans after Reagan left office

 

[Dayton3]

Fifty thousand young guys (many enslaved via the draft) died needlessly in that fucking useless fiasco. It made me ashamed to be an American.

I escaped it by joining the Navy.

And Jane Fonda remains a hero of mine for doing what she did.

Fighting communists is never "useless".

 

[Dayton3]

Reagan supported him

Not true. The Reagan Admin. supported the insurgents that later became the northern alliance in Afghanistan.

 

[Mushroom]

It was Vietnam fighting among themselves

No, they were two different countries. One was created in 1945, the other in 1955. The war between the two did not start until 1959.

They were not "fighting among themselves", the vast majority of those fighting against South Vietnam were from North Vietnam.

Once again, your calling this a "Civil War" is like trying to claim the Korean War was a Civil War because it was Koreans fighting among themselves.

Either you are ignorant, or purposefully playing games for your own purposes.

That is like saying that a war between El Salvador and Nicaragua is a "Civil War" because they were both once part of Spain.

 

[Mushroom]

Just as bin Laden pretended to be our buddy during the anti Soviet Afghan war

Actually, he never was and hated Westerners even before then.

Just because he was part of the Mujahedeen, does not mean we supported all of them. He was one of what was called the "Arab Mujahedeen", and neither the US or ISI gave them aid. The US aid went to people like Ahmad Shah Massoud and groups like the Shura-e Nazar. You might have heard of Massoud, Al-Qaeda assassinated him on 9 September 2001 at the request of the Taliban.

I know I have explained this before, but I find it funny how ignorant people are of what was going on, and try to lump all of the Mujahedeen groups together as if they were one.

 

[Mushroom]

Not true. The Reagan Admin. supported the insurgents that later became the northern alliance in Afghanistan.

You just can't explain things like that to some people. I am not sure if they are simply racists and see them all as "ragheads", or are willfully ignorant out of choice for some reason.

Just like another moron that claims that Vietnam was a "Civil War", and that the US at the same time was trying to support France in taking back the country, and also supporting South Vietnam.

I honestly think they do not care what the truth is. They are so busy pushing their agenda that the facts do not matter.

 

[Mac-7]

Actually, he never was and hated Westerners even before then.

Just because he was part of the Mujahedeen, does not mean we supported all of them. He was one of what was called the "Arab Mujahedeen", and neither the US or ISI gave them aid. The US aid went to people like Ahmad Shah Massoud and groups like the Shura-e Nazar. You might have heard of Massoud, Al-Qaeda assassinated him on 9 September 2001 at the request of the Taliban.

I know I have explained this before, but I find it funny how ignorant people are of what was going on, and try to lump all of the Mujahedeen groups together as if they were one.

You admit that bin laden was part of the Mujahedeen

So US aid them certainly would have ended up in his hands too

 

[rightwinger]

No, they were two different countries. One was created in 1945, the other in 1955. The war between the two did not start until 1959.

They were not "fighting among themselves", the vast majority of those fighting against South Vietnam were from North Vietnam.

Once again, your calling this a "Civil War" is like trying to claim the Korean War was a Civil War because it was Koreans fighting among themselves.

Either you are ignorant, or purposefully playing games for your own purposes.

That is like saying that a war between El Salvador and Nicaragua is a "Civil War" because they were both once part of Spain.

Why was there a Civil War?

Because there was supposed to be a free election five years after the French left

When it became obvious that Ho Chi Minh would win, the US would not allow an election

 

[Dayton3]

Why was there a Civil War?

Because there was supposed to be a free election five years after the French left

When it became obvious that Ho Chi Minh would win, the US would not allow an election

So? The U.S. is in no way obligated to allow Communism to spread whether it has popular support or not.

No nation has a right to choose that option.

 

[rightwinger]

So? The U.S. is in no way obligated to allow Communism to spread whether it has popular support or not.

No nation has a right to choose that option.

So instead of allowing a Communist regime we thought killing 2 million people was a better idea.

Guess what?
Vietnam has been controlled by a Communist Government for 45 years and is doing better than they did under French Colonialism

 

[Dayton3]

So instead of allowing a Communist regime we thought killing 2 million people was a better idea.

Yes. And we didn't set out to kill two million people. But they resisted.

If they had simply complied probably no more than 500,000 tops would've been killed by the U.S.

 

[Dayton3]

So instead of allowing a Communist regime we thought killing 2 million people was a better idea.

Guess what?
Vietnam has been controlled by a Communist Government for 45 years and is doing better than they did under French Colonialism

French Colonialism was not the alternative to communist control .

 

[rightwinger]

French Colonialism was not the alternative to communist control .

The Southern Government was established by the French

Why was the South Vietnamese Government Catholic while the country was Buddhist?

The French

 

[Dayton3]

The Southern Government was established by the French

Why was the South Vietnamese Government Catholic while the country was Buddhist?

The French

South Vietnam was not entirely Buddhist.

 

[sparky]

Why was there a Civil War?

Because there was supposed to be a free election five years after the French left

Isn't that descriptive of the ukranie?

~S~

 

[Mushroom]

You admit that bin laden was part of the Mujahedeen

So US aid them certainly would have ended up in his hands too

Do you even know what "Mujahedeen" is? It is Arabic for "Fighters of Justice", or essentially "Soldier". It is one who fights a "Holy War", in the case of Afghanistan it was a generic name for any who fought against the Soviets. It was not an organization, it was not a group, any time you hear that term think "Soldier", not "Army".

Oh, and there are Mujahedeen also fighting in Cyprus, Burma, the Philippines, former Yugoslavia, Nigeria, Somalia, China, and India. Do you mean to imply that the US has been funding all of them also?

No, the US did not aid him. The US sent them primarily once again to Ahmad Shah Massoud. A moderate Afghan, who was loyal to the King and came from a military background. And Bin Laden had hated him for decades before he had him assassinated. Because Massoud wanted to create a secular and free Afghanistan, while Bin Laden, Hekmatyar, and others wanted to create a strict Islamic State based upon Sharia Law.

So literally, what you are saying is that if the US was doing the same thing in Post-WWI Germany, they would be supporting both the Communists and the Fascists, as both were trying to overthrow the Weimar Republic.

Wow, the lack of understanding of anything is simply amazing. As I said, I can only assume you are a racist by how you oversimply everything to such a degree. And I guess you see all Muslims as simply "Arab Ragheads".

 

[Mushroom]

Because there was supposed to be a free election five years after the French left

Yes. Which South Vietnam said they would honor, once North Vietnam stopped attacking them.

Yes, the Geneva Conference stated that there would be elections within five years. However, in less than a year North Vietnam was trying to take by force what they could not get at the negotiation table.

There would have been elections, if the North Vietnamese government had honored their agreements. Something they have a history of ignoring whenever they feel like it. Kind of like the Treaty of Paris, where in 1973 they promised to never again attack South Vietnam.

And they then broke less than two years later.

 

[Mushroom]

The Southern Government was established by the French

Actually, it was set up at a multinational Peace Conference in Geneva. And in that Conference, it was decided that the Soviet Union would be the sponsor and supporter of North Vietnam, and that the United States would be the sponsor and supporter of South Vietnam. And no, it was not established by the French.

It literally was the continuation of the rule of Bao Dai, 13th Emperor of Vietnam. Who had abdicated his throne in 1945 but remained as Head of State, and that is why the capitol was established in his former ruling city of Saigon.

Wow, you really do not know anything about history, do you? I suggest you try actually doing some research, or I will smite you again with facts.

 

[Mushroom]

But they resisted.

It was not that they "resisted", it is that they kept attacking another nation.

That is kind of like saying that the UN forces killed millions in the Korean War, and the Allies killed millions in WWII. Well, if the governments they were fighting stopped attacking and invading their neighbors, that would not have happened.