Victims Do Not Define Necessary Force

Discussion in 'Legal Philosophy' started by Flanders, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    Why is this in the US Constitution section?
     
  2. Flanders
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    Flanders ARCHCONSERVATIVE

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    To saveliberty: It is not.
     
  3. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    It seems you have not laid out a specific point to be made. It is unclear to me whether you consider the criminals victims once they were shot or the person legally in the home as the victim.

    It seems pretty straightforward if you consider the person legally in the home as a victim in fear of his life with three robbers against him. Since that victim is alive, you can ask him.
     
  4. Flanders
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    Flanders ARCHCONSERVATIVE

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    To saveliberty: In America today criminals are only victims of society.
    To saveliberty: Self-defense defines victims in Liberaldom. Basically, it depends upon who got shot and who did the shooting.
     
  5. Flanders
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    Flanders ARCHCONSERVATIVE

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    A ray of justice shines through:

    George Soros-backed prosecutor yanked after refusing to seek death penalty for cop killer
    By Valerie Richardson - The Washington Times - Friday, April 7, 2017

    George Soros-backed prosecutor yanked after refusing to seek death penalty for cop killer

    Incidentally, liberals love to shout: Justice delayed is justice denied.

    Liberals never say that 15-plus years of appeals —— often at taxpayer expense —— is justice denied to the victims.
     
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  6. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey BANNED Supporting Member

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    The bottom line is that if one kills another, the situation will be, probably, carefully examined by LEO. The shooter remains at all times responsible for his/her action.
     
  7. Meane
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    Meane Active Member

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    That's why the victims are questioned carefully. And a law that prohibits all violence unless absolutely necessary teaches citizens not to overeact.
     
  8. Flanders
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    Flanders ARCHCONSERVATIVE

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    To Meane: Criminal law punishes, or at least it should.

    You obvious believe the first rule of every priesthood that ever was: THE LAW SHOULD TEACH BEHAVIOR —— AND WE ARE THE TEACHERS. It follows that you also believe that priest personalities should govern in a theocracy.

    Note that our Socialist priesthood teaches political correct speech while they PUNISH incorrect speech. Your brief response says enough to tell me that you would abolish the:

    First Amendment

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​
     
  9. Meane
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    Meane Active Member

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    Yeah, it punishes. But first the law needs to be clear. You can't wait till the crime to decide because each perosn must be persecuted according the law as it exists during the crime.
     
  10. Flanders
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    Flanders ARCHCONSERVATIVE

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    To Meane: Nice bit of double-talk! You must work in the pharmaceutic industry! I hate to be the one to tell you, but preventative law was pioneered by preventative medicine. Even preventative medicine leaves a lot of room for doubt. Take a look at where your preventative law thinking came from and where it is going:

    Preventative medicine is a pharmaceutical industry scam. Drug companies were not making enough money selling drugs to people who were actually sick; so they increased their sales a thousandfold with the preventative medicine con job. The whole thing is a perversion of “An apple a day keeps the doctor away.”

    It turns out that doctors are worse than drug companies. Doctors aligned themselves with dirty little moralists when they started telling EVERYONE not to smoke. Do not smoke soon became lose weight and exercise. That wasn’t enough. Doctors in Florida tell their patients to get rid of their guns:​

    A U.S. district judge has issued a permanent injunction against a Florida law aimed at preventing doctors from refusing treatment for patients who admit they have guns in the home.​

    Note who doctors had as allies in their lawsuit:​

    . . . various physicians organizations, the American Civil Liberties Union and the Washington-based Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.​

    Own a gun? Doctors can't refuse to treat you
    Judge issues permanent injunction in 'Docs vs. Glocks' case
    Published: 12 hours ago
    by DREW ZAHN

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/own-a-gun-the-doctor-cant-refuse-to-treat-you/?cat_orig=us

    Question: Doctors scream bloody murder when anybody interferes in the doctor-patient relationship; so
    how come doctors do not mind the ACLU getting in-between doctor and patient?​

    Doctors are supposed to do no harm. There is every possibility that preventative drugs harm some patients. The public will never know how many patients are harmed when they take medicine to prevent rather than cure. The public will never find out because drug companies, doctors, legislators, and advertisers will see that the harm done is blamed on something else.

    Happily, doctors cannot hide the harm they are doing with their assault on the Second Amendment. I’d like to see this scenario:

    A patient gets rid of his gun on his doctor’s orders. A murderer breaks into the patient’s home and kills the patient’s children because he could not defend himself. The patient sues the doctor. How would you vote if you were on the jury?

    In the same vain, Americans must take a long, hard, look at tort reform before those bums in Washington include it in more “healthcare reform.” I do not have much use for lawyers, but lawyers, and they alone, are all that stands between the public and medical industry butchery protected by law.

    Finally, when I need moral guidance I’ll go to a priest not a doctor.

    A Second Amendment Tax

    Now look at one connection between preventative medicine and your preventative law:

    Vaccination is preventative medicine. In the hands of the government and drug companies Ben Franklin’s idiom “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” became the most profitable slogan ever devised. You can be sure that old Ben did not have today’s government butchers and government-forced-vaccinations in mind when he uttered his famous words. As it turned out the success of the polio vaccine linked Ben’s idiom to forced vaccinations for all time.

    In 2014, the battle lines are being drawn in the states between those, who want to force citizens to use every federally recommended vaccine and those, who respect and value the legal right to exercise informed consent to medical risk-taking, including vaccine risk-taking.​

    2014 State Vaccine Legislation in America: Battle Lines Are Drawn & Your Participation is Needed!
    By Dawn Richardson, NVIC Director of Advocacy

    Fighting Forced Vaccination in America in 2014: 58 Bills in 24 States Threatening Right to Refuse Vaccines

    Preventative medicine is the mother lode for Big Pharma. If you doubt me take a quick look at all of the drugs advertised on television promising to prevent everything except death. Preventative medicine is also the biggest ripoff in the medical industry. Everybody gets a piece of the action. Just look at the non-prescription drugs advertised on TV and ask yourself how much money is spent telling healthy people they need to take a pill to stay healthy.

    Interestingly, the campaign “eat for good health” is a form of preventative medicine: “An apple a day keeps the doctor away.” It is no different than Popeye telling people they must eat spinach. It all comes down to a variation of the old enigma: Will I be healthier if I eat specific foods? or will I be healthier if do not eat certain foods?

    If you know nothing else about preventative medicine know this: The big money is in treatment not cure. Preventative medicine neither treats nor cures. Preventative law neither treats nor cures crime.

    Preventative medicine justifies paying for everything rather than only paying for catastrophic medical emergencies, and life-threatening illnesses when death is imminent. Both catastrophic emergencies and imminent death are fairly obvious; so there should be no difficulty in keeping doctors honest when it comes to definition.


    NOTE: Preventative medicine is available for everything except pain. The government imposed so much paperwork and so many restrictions on doctors prescribing pain relief drugs for their patients they are often sent to a “Pain Center Clinic” if they want relief. A cynic might even say that euthanasia and doctor assisted suicide are forms of preventative medicine minus pain killer drugs.

    Preventative medicine also turned America into a nation of pill freaks for no other reason than to enrich the pharmaceutical industry. Right now Big Pharma convinced the country that taking a pill is the key to better health. The sales pitch is: Take this or that prescription medicine to prevent this or that illness. Take the pill for the rest of your life is even better because you will probably need more pills to fight the adverse side effects brought on by the first pill.

    Incidentally, hypochondriacs living in a pill freak culture could not be happier.

    The beauty is that tens of millions of Americans end up being unpaid guinea pigs for the pharmaceutical industry.

    Political morality is destroying America’s moral fiber. Preventative medicine is more about the tax collector’s morality than it is about health. A nation of pill freaks buying prescription drugs to prevent this or that is the highest morality of all. Diet and exercise gurus promising healthier lives are also moralists contradicting the pill priesthood if you do not count vitamins as pills.


    NOTE: There were moralist hustlers long before the others jumped on the morality bandwagon. Movies and TV shows have always been dirty little morality plays; The Twilight Zone was the worst of them but not by much. It can be argued that live and let live is also dogma, except that those of us who believe in live and let live do not give a rat’s ass how others live, worship, or eat; so long as they leave us alone.

    Incidentally, with Socialism’s Culture of Death in charge of medicine, I doubt if any disease will ever be cured again. Admittedly, great successes that can be attributed to vaccinations when they defeated small pox, polio, etc. Unfortunately, those successes taught Socialist priests that the big money is in treatment not cure. Cure is too costly because it reduces socialized medicine’s customer base. Keeping the elderly and the infirm alive is the breaking point separating cost efficiency and compassion.


    p.s. Infectious diseases used as weapons can kill government big shots. That is the only reason they are behind cures in the form of vaccinations. I will go so far as to say they are funding research to develop an antidote for themselves.

    I hope everybody reads these two articles. If you only read one —— make it Schlafly’s. Her piece details and events and provable consequences originating in the Clinton Administration, while the consequences of using children to test anthrax are still unknown.


    Test of anthrax vaccine in children gets tentative OK
    By Sharon Begley
    NEW YORK | Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:01am EDT

    Test of anthrax vaccine in children gets tentative OK

    XXXXX

    Phyllis Schlafly
    November 6, 2002
    Clinton scandals continue to surface

    http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2002/nov02/02-11-06.shtml
     

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