Venezuela: Not What You Think

Discussion in 'General Global Topics' started by Agnapostate, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. Agnapostate
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    Robin Hahnel, "Venezuela: Not What You Think"

    An important article regarding illusions and realities of Venezuela by American University economist and libertarian socialist activist Robin Hahnel.

    An especially important article to remember and contemplate in these times of U.S. mass media defamation of the democratically elected president of Venezuela and the Bolivarian Revolution.
     
  2. Amanda
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    Amanda Calm as a Hindu cow

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    Ok before anyone jumps on me let say first that I'm not a big fan of Hugo Chavez, although I did think his comment about Bush being the devil was pretty funny.

    I think he's been an effective leader for Venezuela and I think it's important to question the news we get about the region because there is a campaign of defamation going on. I have heard anti-Chavez propaganda on CNN and if I can recognize it it must be pretty blatant.

    So some of you are probably thinking that it was just news and I'm a nut. Maybe... but I don't think so. See, it was table Chavez nationalizing Venezuela's oil industry and they were explaining how unfair it was that he would do that. Fair or unfair is not the job of reporting news. That was the spin so that viewers would know how to understand the news.

    BTW, does anyone know of a good 24 hours news channel that you can turn to and actually see news reports? CNN headline news used to be decent but all I ever see anymore in that Rush wannabe Glen Beck or Nancy Grace having a rage-gasm. They both turn my stomach.
     
  3. Agnapostate
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    There's really no honest television media, so I would recommend an online source like IndyMedia.
     
  4. Amanda
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    I like to see footage of whatever is happening though.
     
  5. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    I'm not so sure I trust any media from Indy either--they're so Manning biased.
     
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  6. Agnapostate
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    You could try the Guardian.

    Hugo Chávez wins referendum allowing indefinite re-election | World news | guardian.co.uk

    The title says "indefinite re-election" but the URL says "indefinite rule." You can imagine how the Media Research Center would react if MSNBC had said that about Bush or how Media Matters for America would react if Fox News said that about Obama.
     
  7. Harry Dresden
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    Harry Dresden Latinum, Plantinum,Silver,Gold Member Supporting Member

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    i know 2 people who dont know each other,who have been there in the last 2-3 years,both had the same impression of the place......FEAR permeates the air,NO ONE trusts anyone,you dont talk negative about the govt or things happen to you or your business.....they both claim it was very uncomfortable and dont care to return......one of these guys has also been to Iraq during the Saddam reign and said it was no where near what it is like there
    ....by the way one of them and his wife are of Cuban decent,and went passing themselves off as Cubans because of the obvious......and they said it was just very depressing......they left after a week,of a two week stay.... ......so since i know these 2 guys have been there,for now i will take their word for it.......
     
  8. Agnapostate
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    That provides us with absolutely no empirical evidence on the matter. I kid you not. Anecdotal evidence from a biased sample is essentially useless.
     
  9. michiganFats
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    How is what Harry Dresden did any different from what you did? I found the article in the OP to be full of loaded words and phrases, faulty logic, dubious "facts", and an obvious bias on the part of the author.

    That having been said, an important point was raised, many Americans don't hear the whole story behind what's happening in Venezuela. Chavez is doing his best to try and repair years of neglect regarding basic social services, and he is not a Stalinist.

    I also thought that two things should have been mentioned in the article but weren't. The first being that Chavez, despite all the talk about economics and oil, is primarily a cultural warrior. If Chavez's reforms were laid out in front of us, I don't believe most rational people would have a problem with them, a characteristic example IMO being the cessation of the beer truck routes. The main area where dissent would pop up is property reform, and that's a matter of opinion. Chavez considers much of the property of the upper class in that country to be ill-gotten gains, and he may have a point.

    The second point being that the author did a disservice by not explaining why Venezuela is a story which should be followed. Venezuela is strategically located when it comes to the flow of oil in the western hemisphere. It is not unthinkable that we may end up conducting some sort of military action in that region. If no one here knows the recent history of that nation, how will anyone be able to judge the actions of our government, should that scenario arise?

    I give Chavez credit for being elected to office instead of seizing office however given the past performance of military men in Latin America, I do not think the "president for life" concern is unfounded.

    A closing point about empirical evidence. Social and political issues are opinion driven, they are by their very nature subjective. If you really want evidence for every statement made, perhaps you should abandon your chosen career in armchair politics and pursue a career in mathematics or physics, or chemistry, maybe biology. Engineering is a great field to get into. Computer Science is definitely a growth field. But, if you continue to discuss politics and social issues, you are just going to have to accept the fact that opinions will figure heavily in every conversation you will have.
     
  10. Harry Dresden
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    Harry Dresden Latinum, Plantinum,Silver,Gold Member Supporting Member

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    lets put it like this Agna......i was hearing reports on the news like everyone else about what is going on in Iraq,i deliver the mail and have at least 6 "kids" who have been there any where from 1 time to 3 times who live on the route,or at least their folkes do,talking to them,those who have actually BEEN there as compared to a reporter writing a story,who may or may not have been there,ill take their word for it,ESPECIALLY when their stories seem to be on the same page......could the reporter be putting the old SPIN on the story,because of what they want YOU to believe?.....no thanks Agna,ill take the story from the guys who have been there.....one of them even told me "are they reporting on the same war?"......the 2 guys i know who have been to Venezuela had basically the same thoughts on what the atmosphere was like down there.....ill take their word for it thank you....
     

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