US Senate votes down ethanol subsidies

Just so you get your terminology straight.

The "Ethanol Subsidy" is a tax break of 45 cents per gallon. Since 10% of the gasoline everyone uses every day is Ethanol, this gave everyone a 4.5 cent tax break on every gallon of gasoline they buy.

The subject of debate is your list of Big Oil subsidies.

Still waiting for the list.

I had already posted a link, but here is another one for you.

The Wall Street Journal: Oil Demand Growth Vulnerable to Subsidy Cuts
In 2009, the IEA says the total cost of oil subsidies was $130 billion. But in 2008, the last time the oil price touched $100 a barrel, this figure was a budget-busting $280 billion.

That is a link to an article about the oil business, but it is not a list of subsidies.

Still waiting for the list.
 
A huge blow to Norquist.

AFP: US Senate votes down ethanol subsidies

WASHINGTON — The US Senate voted Thursday to end a $6 billion subsidy for ethanol in a move that appeared largely symbolic but sends a message about the growing unease on support for the biofuel made mostly from corn.
In a 73-27 vote, the Senate approved an amendment to end a 45 cent per gallon credit given for blending ethanol into gasoline and scrap a hefty tariff on ethanol imports.
The outcome for the measure remains uncertain, since the broader bill would need to pass the Senate and the House of Representatives, but lawmakers said a broad coalition supports the move to help curb the massive budget deficit.
"The ethanol and oil industries do not need nor do they deserve subsidies that are costly to American taxpayers, harm our environment and increase the cost of the food we eat," said Senator Ben Cardin, a Maryland Democrat who was among the 38 Democrats, 33 Republicans and two independents voting in favor.
<more>


It's about time they did that. Making fuel from corn--puts out more emmissions than making gasoline from oil.
 
Senate votes in favor of ending VEETC
one comprehensive report found that subsidies for the oil industry total up to $280 billion annually, representing up to $2 per gallon of gasoline. A recent legislative effort to eliminate $2 billion of these oil subsidies went nowhere in Congress, he noted, after organizations like the National Taxpayers Union painted it as a tax increase.

NCGA Disappointed Politics Trumped Policy on Key Ethanol Vote
Schott pointed out that one comprehensive report found that subsidies for the oil industry total up to $280 billion annually, representing up to $2 per gallon of gasoline. A recent legislative effort to eliminate $2 billion of these oil subsidies went nowhere in Congress, he noted, after organizations like the National Taxpayers Union painted it as a tax increase.
 
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Senate votes in favor of ending VEETC
one comprehensive report found that subsidies for the oil industry total up to $280 billion annually, representing up to $2 per gallon of gasoline. A recent legislative effort to eliminate $2 billion of these oil subsidies went nowhere in Congress, he noted, after organizations like the National Taxpayers Union painted it as a tax increase.


It's called corporate welfare. General Electric made 18.4 billion dollars last year and didn't pay a penny in federal taxes on it. Of course, the CEO is Obama's new job czar.

The Federal government likes to partner up with energy--and that's why you see all of these subsidies going to big oil--and NOW General Electric.
 
Senate votes in favor of ending VEETC
one comprehensive report found that subsidies for the oil industry total up to $280 billion annually, representing up to $2 per gallon of gasoline. A recent legislative effort to eliminate $2 billion of these oil subsidies went nowhere in Congress, he noted, after organizations like the National Taxpayers Union painted it as a tax increase.


Still waiting for the list.

You have one, right?
 
I still don't know the nature of the 280 billion in subsidies.

usually they point to the depletion allowance, which is a normal amortized charge to assets that exists for all industries. Not just oil. But I don't know what you are referring to her unless you tell us the nature of this subsidy. Are they getting some sort of cash grant, a tax deferral, or what?

We can't discuss a thing unless we can see what it really is. Just tossing around a number and saying it is what it is does not help move the discussion forward.
 
I still don't know the nature of the 280 billion in subsidies.

usually they point to the depletion allowance, which is a normal amortized charge to assets that exists for all industries. Not just oil. But I don't know what you are referring to her unless you tell us the nature of this subsidy. Are they getting some sort of cash grant, a tax deferral, or what?

We can't discuss a thing unless we can see what it really is. Just tossing around a number and saying it is what it is does not help move the discussion forward.

It is a secret meme.
 
Denver Post
Currently, our government supports the oil industry with over $280 billion every year in the form of various subsidies and other financial incentives (International Energy Agency & DTN studies). This amount does not include the $6 billion ethanol blending tax credit, which goes to the oil companies and NOT ethanol producers as Mr. Carroll misleadingly suggests.

1:45 in the video below.
"There is over $280 billion worth of subsidies the oil industry gets."

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZy9qtTH6Sk"]$280 billion worth of subsidies the oil industry gets[/ame]
 
Round we go the around mulberry bush, but we get no forwarder. All I am seeing is the number tossed around. I don't see for what.

I would like to see a list of subsidies.
subsidy 1 $n billion
subsidy 2 $n billion
subsidy 3 $n billion

Etc
etc
etc.
 
Here are just a sampling of the $280 BILLION IN OIL INDUSTRY SUBSIDIES THE USA PROVIDES (in 2010 dollars)

1. Federal stimulus funds -- $3.4 billion 2009

2. Domestic manufacturing tax deduction -- $1.73 billion annually

3. Exempt from passive investments -- $1.8 million annually.

4. Percentage depletion allowance -- $1 million annually.

5. Deduction for tertiary injectants -- $6.7 million annually.

6. Accelerated depreciation on equipment -- $4 billion annual

7. Worldwide U.S. government subsidies through favorable lending -- $1.3 billion annually

8. Credit for production of nonconventional fuels -- $2 billion annually.

9. Oil and gas exploration and development expensing -- $1 billion annually

10. Foreign tax credit -- $2.2 billion annually.

11. Oil and gas excess percentage over cost depletion -- $771.4 million annually.

12. Credit for enhanced oil recovery costs -- $224.3 million annual.

13. Exclusion of alternative fuels from fuel excise tax -- $49 million annually.

14. Exception from passive loss limitations for oil and gas -- $27.1 million annually.

15. Expensing liquid fuel refineries -- $23.4 million annually.

16. Sulfur regulatory compliance incentives for small diesel refiners -- $15.6 million annually.

17. Credit for clean fuel vehicles and refueling property -- $2 million annually.

18. Highway trust fund -- $71.4 million annually.

19. Low income home energy assistant program -- $914.3 million annually.

20. Strategic petroleum reserve -- $882.9 million annually.

21. Northeast home heating oil reserve -- $7.1 million annually.

22. Commuter benefits exclusion from income -- $3.9 billion annually.

23. Public liability in BP Gulf spill -- at least economic damages capped at $75 million -- $2.425 billion annually.


Historical Annual Subsidies (in 2010 dollars)

1. Local, state government protection services -- $36.8 billion to $51.8, billion annually.

2. Federal, state, local spending on transportation infrastructure -- $48.8 billion to $151.9 billion annually.

3. Fuel taxes lower than regular sales taxes -- $6.5 billion annually.

4. Oil security -- $6.9 billion to $28.8 billion annually.

5. Public liability for plugging, abandoning, remediating onshore wells -- $77.4 million annually.

6. U.S. Export-Import Bank -- $1.5 billion annually.

7. Tax break from federal/state interaction -- $80 million to $169.9 million annually.

8. Unfunded, underfunded liabilities on inadequate bonding and user fees for current stock of onshore, offshore oil operators -- $242.7 million to $785.3 million annually.

9. Basic industry information free of charge from U.S. Energy Information Administration, others -- $105.7 million to $138.5 million annually.

10. U.S. coast guard -- $439.8 million annually.

11. Deferral of income from controlled foreign corporations -- $88.5 million to $432.6 million annually.

12. U.S. Army corps of engineers -- $341.2 million to $369.8 million annually.

13. Domestic production activities deduction -- $1.2 billion annually.

14. Temporary expensing for equipment used in oil refining -- $262.4 million annually.

15. Amortization of oil, gas geological geophysical costs -- $218.9 million to $518.4 million annually.

16. Deferral of foreign income -- $88.5 million to $432.7 million annually.

17. Natural gas distribution pipelines treated as 15-year property -- $21.6 million annually.

18. Temporary 50 percent expensing for equipment used in the refining of liquid fuels -- $10.8 million annually.

19. Royalty under-collection due to artificially low posted prices -- $44.3 million to $185.6 million annually.

20. Federal oil and gas R&D -- $77 million annually.

21. U.S. Department of Energy, naval petroleum and oil shale reserves -- $23 million annually.

22. Environmental costs associated with toxic air emissions -- $138.9 million to $2.6 billion annually.

23. Costs of access to oil resources -- $115.7 million to $292.7 million annually.

24. Transfer of oil-related liability to public sector -- $244.2 million to $795.3 million annually.

25. Clean-up of petroleum-contaminated water per year -- $1.2 billion annually.

26. Health, environmental effects of leaking motor vehicle storage tanks -- $171.3 million to $2.6 billion annually.

Annual State Oil Subsidies

1. California -- direct subsidies to oil (historical numbers, 1997) -- $174.9 million.

2. California -- foregone royalties- (historical estimate, 1995)-- $114.2 million to $285.6 million annually.

3. Texas -- oil severance tax incentives -- $102 million annually.

4. Texas -- gasoline tax exemptions -- $86.6 million annually.

5. Texas -- state, local subsidies for oil, gas -- $1.5 billion annually.

6. Alaska -- cash refunds for oil company exploration and development and/or tax credits- $548.8 million annually.

OIL SUBSIDY TOTALS = $133.2 billion to $280.8 billion/annually/ .96 cents to $2.01 per gallon produced in U.S./ 139.5 billion gallons

OIL SUBSIDIES WITHOUT NUMBERS

1. Domestic manufacturing tax credit

2. Increased accelerated depreciation of certain oil- and gas-related assets

3. Increased spending on carbon-related research

4. Pending subsidies for carbon capture, sequestration

5. Higher oil security subsidies as a result of much higher defense spending in past decade

6. Tax breaks for investments in refineries

7. Loan guarantees for natural gas pipeline from Alaska (not yet built)

8. Large losses from poorly structured royalty agreements in Gulf oil, gas leases in 1998

9. Continued evolution in oil, gas corporate structures to bypass U.S. corporate taxation -- through partnership structures and offshore headquarters.
 
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Here are just a sampling of the $280 BILLION IN OIL INDUSTRY SUBSIDIES THE USA PROVIDES (in 2010 dollars)

1. Federal stimulus funds -- $3.4 billion 2009

2. Domestic manufacturing tax deduction -- $1.73 billion annually

3. Exempt from passive investments -- $1.8 million annually.

4. Percentage depletion allowance -- $1 million annually.

5. Deduction for tertiary injectants -- $6.7 million annually.

6. Accelerated depreciation on equipment -- $4 billion annual

7. Worldwide U.S. government subsidies through favorable lending -- $1.3 billion annually

8. Credit for production of nonconventional fuels -- $2 billion annually.

9. Oil and gas exploration and development expensing -- $1 billion annually

10. Foreign tax credit -- $2.2 billion annually.

11. Oil and gas excess percentage over cost depletion -- $771.4 million annually.

12. Credit for enhanced oil recovery costs -- $224.3 million annual.

13. Exclusion of alternative fuels from fuel excise tax -- $49 million annually.

14. Exception from passive loss limitations for oil and gas -- $27.1 million annually.

15. Expensing liquid fuel refineries -- $23.4 million annually.

16. Sulfur regulatory compliance incentives for small diesel refiners -- $15.6 million annually.

17. Credit for clean fuel vehicles and refueling property -- $2 million annually.

18. Highway trust fund -- $71.4 million annually.

19. Low income home energy assistant program -- $914.3 million annually.

20. Strategic petroleum reserve -- $882.9 million annually.

21. Northeast home heating oil reserve -- $7.1 million annually.

22. Commuter benefits exclusion from income -- $3.9 billion annually.

23. Public liability in BP Gulf spill -- at least economic damages capped at $75 million -- $2.425 billion annually.


Historical Annual Subsidies (in 2010 dollars)

1. Local, state government protection services -- $36.8 billion to $51.8, billion annually.

2. Federal, state, local spending on transportation infrastructure -- $48.8 billion to $151.9 billion annually.

3. Fuel taxes lower than regular sales taxes -- $6.5 billion annually.

4. Oil security -- $6.9 billion to $28.8 billion annually.

5. Public liability for plugging, abandoning, remediating onshore wells -- $77.4 million annually.

6. U.S. Export-Import Bank -- $1.5 billion annually.

7. Tax break from federal/state interaction -- $80 million to $169.9 million annually.

8. Unfunded, underfunded liabilities on inadequate bonding and user fees for current stock of onshore, offshore oil operators -- $242.7 million to $785.3 million annually.

9. Basic industry information free of charge from U.S. Energy Information Administration, others -- $105.7 million to $138.5 million annually.

10. U.S. coast guard -- $439.8 million annually.

11. Deferral of income from controlled foreign corporations -- $88.5 million to $432.6 million annually.

12. U.S. Army corps of engineers -- $341.2 million to $369.8 million annually.

13. Domestic production activities deduction -- $1.2 billion annually.

14. Temporary expensing for equipment used in oil refining -- $262.4 million annually.

15. Amortization of oil, gas geological geophysical costs -- $218.9 million to $518.4 million annually.

16. Deferral of foreign income -- $88.5 million to $432.7 million annually.

17. Natural gas distribution pipelines treated as 15-year property -- $21.6 million annually.

18. Temporary 50 percent expensing for equipment used in the refining of liquid fuels -- $10.8 million annually.

19. Royalty under-collection due to artificially low posted prices -- $44.3 million to $185.6 million annually.

20. Federal oil and gas R&D -- $77 million annually.

21. U.S. Department of Energy, naval petroleum and oil shale reserves -- $23 million annually.

22. Environmental costs associated with toxic air emissions -- $138.9 million to $2.6 billion annually.

23. Costs of access to oil resources -- $115.7 million to $292.7 million annually.

24. Transfer of oil-related liability to public sector -- $244.2 million to $795.3 million annually.

25. Clean-up of petroleum-contaminated water per year -- $1.2 billion annually.

26. Health, environmental effects of leaking motor vehicle storage tanks -- $171.3 million to $2.6 billion annually.

Annual State Oil Subsidies

1. California -- direct subsidies to oil (historical numbers, 1997) -- $174.9 million.

2. California -- foregone royalties- (historical estimate, 1995)-- $114.2 million to $285.6 million annually.

3. Texas -- oil severance tax incentives -- $102 million annually.

4. Texas -- gasoline tax exemptions -- $86.6 million annually.

5. Texas -- state, local subsidies for oil, gas -- $1.5 billion annually.

6. Alaska -- cash refunds for oil company exploration and development and/or tax credits- $548.8 million annually.

OIL SUBSIDIES WITHOUT NUMBERS

1. Domestic manufacturing tax credit

2. Increased accelerated depreciation of certain oil- and gas-related assets

3. Increased spending on carbon-related research

4. Pending subsidies for carbon capture, sequestration

5. Higher oil security subsidies as a result of much higher defense spending in past decade

6. Tax breaks for investments in refineries

7. Loan guarantees for natural gas pipeline from Alaska (not yet built)

8. Large losses from poorly structured royalty agreements in Gulf oil, gas leases in 1998

9. Continued evolution in oil, gas corporate structures to bypass U.S. corporate taxation -- through partnership structures and offshore headquarters.

I am a little confused.

How is a credit for the purchase of energy efficient cars a subsidy for the oil industry?
 
A lot of this is standard for all industries. ACRS was part of Reagan's tax plan and applies to every company, not just oil. It is standard practice.
And how is the treatment of a particular asset a subsidy? If it were a 10 year asset, is that more of a subsidy than it being a 20 year asset?

Again, amortization is standar for all companies. Resource companies call this depletion. But all resource companies get it.

What might be considered subsidies is the transfer of liability. But ordinary depreciation is just that.
 
Anyone ever hear of the tortilla riots in Mexico??

On one hand you pay less for gas but on the other you pay more for corn...

How the rising price of corn made Mexicans take to streets - Americas, World - The Independent

The best part about that is - Al Gore was a big supporter of that and was somewhat an architect of the brilliant idea, then when someone asked him "did you think the program would raise the prices on food product" his response was "I never thought about that."
 
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KissMy:

2. Federal, state, local spending on transportation infrastructure -- $48.8 billion to $151.9 billion annually.

Is THIS part of $280 Bil? ALL transportation infrastructure? REALLY? Are the electric vehicles gonna run off-road? Bet that includes the FAA. Got a solar passenger jet I can lease?

C'mon.. It's a typical political steaming pile of numbers..
 
Anyone ever hear of the tortilla riots in Mexico??

On one hand you pay less for gas but on the other you pay more for corn...

How the rising price of corn made Mexicans take to streets - Americas, World - The Independent

The best part about that is - Al Gore was a big supporter of that and was somewhat an architect of the brilliant idea, then when someone asked him "did you think the program would raise the prices on food product" his response was "I never thought about that."

Mexico charges the USA over $100 a barrel for oil but you want us to sell them corn for less than the cost of production.

Do you idiots want to solve the trade deficit problem or not?
 
The corn lobby has also caused more bad health problems with their products than almost any other food group.
Ethanol is terrible for engines also. This is good news.
 
A lot of this is standard for all industries. ACRS was part of Reagan's tax plan and applies to every company, not just oil. It is standard practice.
And how is the treatment of a particular asset a subsidy? If it were a 10 year asset, is that more of a subsidy than it being a 20 year asset?

Again, amortization is standar for all companies. Resource companies call this depletion. But all resource companies get it.

What might be considered subsidies is the transfer of liability. But ordinary depreciation is just that.

Exactly. A lot of "subsidies for big oil" are in fact standard features of the tax code for all businesses. But BIG OIL is scary. So we have to invent scary subsidies. Keeps the liberals and narco libertarians up at night.
 
Anyone ever hear of the tortilla riots in Mexico??

On one hand you pay less for gas but on the other you pay more for corn...

How the rising price of corn made Mexicans take to streets - Americas, World - The Independent

The best part about that is - Al Gore was a big supporter of that and was somewhat an architect of the brilliant idea, then when someone asked him "did you think the program would raise the prices on food product" his response was "I never thought about that."

Mexico charges the USA over $100 a barrel for oil but you want us to sell them corn for less than the cost of production.

Do you idiots want to solve the trade deficit problem or not?

We're going to solve the trade deficit "problem" (as yet undefined) by raising the price of food worldwide?
 
If we did away with oil subsidies gas would go to $6 a gallon & ethanol would kick oils ass. Ethanol would make huge profit with no subsidy. There is no way new alternative energies can compete against the heavily subsidized oil. If you want to get off the Big Oil tit then quit subsidizing it. Alternatives will flourish.

Boehner wants to cut oil subsidies
House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner said he would consider cutting multi-million dollar tax subsidies to oil companies, saying &#8220;it&#8217;s certainly something we should be looking at.&#8221; Traditionally, Republicans have been very supportive of oil subsidies, claiming that removing them would increase the cost of petroleum based energy and make high gas prices go even higher.

Although President Obama has supported the removal of oil subsidies during the last Congress, repealing the tax breaks now could translate into 6 dollars a gallon at the pump, a possible death knell for his re-election. Removing the subsidies would provide about $4 billion of revenue yearly to the federal government, an obvious boon to the cash strapped federal budget, and would also counter Democratic criticism that Republicans unfairly protect the financial interests of the oil industry. Is Speaker Boehner serious about his intention to look at repealing the oil subsidies? Is his party feeling the heat from progressives who criticize Republicans for cutting social welfare without considering cuts to &#8220;corporate welfare?&#8221; Or did he just stick his foot in his mouth? What type of proposal could the Dems and GOP agree on?

OIL SUBSIDY TOTALS = $133.2 billion to $280.8 billion/annually/ .96 cents to $2.01 per gallon produced in U.S./ 139.5 billion gallons
 
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