Universal Background checks are nothing more than a gateway to gun registration...

[cnm]

Mass killings are no problem to gun nuts.

You can't even have a conversation about this issue without the use of absurd hyperbole.

What hyperbole? You mean mass killings are a problem to gun nuts? Really, if mass killings are not a problem giving justification then it's fair to say one is a gun nut.

 

[hadit]

The second amendment encourages gun registration

It is needed for well regulated militias

Actually not, because a militia simply assumes every member is armed. In fact, it would argue for required gun ownership, otherwise there's no purpose for the militia.

 

[cnm]

How does registration infringe one's ability to bear arms?

 

[hadit]

How does registration infringe one's ability to bear arms?

It doesn't directly, as was pointed out. It does, however, make possible the next steps on the path to confiscation and outright bans.

 

[anynameyouwish]

Telling us any different means you are either naive, or lying...... the only reason the anti-gunners are pushing universal background checks is to prepare the way for gun registration.....and gun registration is the next to the last step they want. The final step will be gun banning by model or class of weapon, once they get the political control they need to do it....

Hawkins: Universal Background Checks Unenforceable Without Gun Registry

While universal background checks are pushed as a response to the El Paso and Dayton shooting attacks, it should be remembered that such checks are unenforceable without a gun registry.
In other words, once such checks are in place, it is only a matter of time before lawmakers — in one party or the other — suggest a loose registration scheme. They will most likely do this in the days after the first mass public attack that occurs once universal background checks are the law of the land.

Think about it — universal background checks presume that the government knows about every gun sale, everywhere, at every time. That is the very meaning of the “universal” system — that all sales are covered by one background check.

The problem is that the government does not know where the vast majority of guns are at this very moment. Thus, as mass public attacks and/or high-profile shootings continue, they will claim we need a registry so the government knows where every gun is and can, therefore, know if any gun is changing hands without a background check.

We saw this scenario play out in California where universal background checks were adopted in the early 1990s. That state now has firearm registration requirements and a confiscation law as well. Moreover, California has a ten-day waiting period on gun purchases, a requirement that would-be gun buyers first get a gun safety certificate from the state, a one-handgun-a-month purchase limit, a minimum firearm purchase age of 21 years, a ban on campus carry, gun controls on ammunition sales, and more.

The lesson: It is all downhill once gun controllers secured universal background checks.

Another important point is that universal background checks will not stop mass public attacks. After all, Democrats pushed such checks in the wake of the Orlando Pulse shooting, but that shooter passed a background check for his guns. Gun controllers made the same push after the Las Vegas shooting, but that shooter passed a check for all his firearms as well. And the same goes for the Aurora movie theater attacker, the Parkland high school attacker, the Virginia Beach shooter, the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooter, and on and on.

you oppose background checks?

you have no problem with violent criminals buying guns and going out to kill innocent people?

 

[anynameyouwish]

Telling us any different means you are either naive, or lying...... the only reason the anti-gunners are pushing universal background checks is to prepare the way for gun registration.....and gun registration is the next to the last step they want. The final step will be gun banning by model or class of weapon, once they get the political control they need to do it....

Hawkins: Universal Background Checks Unenforceable Without Gun Registry

While universal background checks are pushed as a response to the El Paso and Dayton shooting attacks, it should be remembered that such checks are unenforceable without a gun registry.
In other words, once such checks are in place, it is only a matter of time before lawmakers — in one party or the other — suggest a loose registration scheme. They will most likely do this in the days after the first mass public attack that occurs once universal background checks are the law of the land.

Think about it — universal background checks presume that the government knows about every gun sale, everywhere, at every time. That is the very meaning of the “universal” system — that all sales are covered by one background check.

The problem is that the government does not know where the vast majority of guns are at this very moment. Thus, as mass public attacks and/or high-profile shootings continue, they will claim we need a registry so the government knows where every gun is and can, therefore, know if any gun is changing hands without a background check.

We saw this scenario play out in California where universal background checks were adopted in the early 1990s. That state now has firearm registration requirements and a confiscation law as well. Moreover, California has a ten-day waiting period on gun purchases, a requirement that would-be gun buyers first get a gun safety certificate from the state, a one-handgun-a-month purchase limit, a minimum firearm purchase age of 21 years, a ban on campus carry, gun controls on ammunition sales, and more.

The lesson: It is all downhill once gun controllers secured universal background checks.

Another important point is that universal background checks will not stop mass public attacks. After all, Democrats pushed such checks in the wake of the Orlando Pulse shooting, but that shooter passed a background check for his guns. Gun controllers made the same push after the Las Vegas shooting, but that shooter passed a check for all his firearms as well. And the same goes for the Aurora movie theater attacker, the Parkland high school attacker, the Virginia Beach shooter, the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooter, and on and on.

if you are not a criminal you don't have anything to worry about.....

do you?

 

[cnm]

It doesn't directly, as was pointed out. It does, however, make possible the next steps on the path to confiscation and outright bans.

Owning weapons makes confiscation and outright bans possible.

 

[cnm]

Actually not, because a militia simply assumes every member is armed. In fact, it would argue for required gun ownership, otherwise there's no purpose for the militia.

Yet the constitution strongly implies the militia is the purpose.

 

[the other mike]

I'm good with background checks and taking guns from criminals
and keeping felons from buying guns, but beyond that, fuck you with your
concern for my safety mr /mrs talking head & Congress member from inside your gated mansions
with armed security guards and surveillance cameras everywhere.

 

[Taz]

I'm not against people owning guns, just certain kinds

Too damn bad. The situation is improving and you lack justification to intrude on my right to own those weapons.

You're already not allowed to own all kinds, like nukes, cruise missile, WMD, cluster bombs, grenades... You'll still be allowed to own guns so the right is still there. Just like it is now, only with a longer list of no-no weapons.

 

[Taz]

2a, you don't even have a plan to reduce gun violence in the US. And FYI, locking people up for longer AFTER the fact isn't going to get it done.

You are an idiot....I have the only plan that actually works...but because it doesn't include new laws that target normal gun owners, you aren't interested.

Japan implemented this and ended their Yakuza using fully automatic weapons and grenades.....

This plan is simple, and only targets criminals...which loses people like you right there....you don't care about stopping actual crime...it simply drives you insane when you think normal people own guns...

If you want to dry up 95% of gun crime in this country, this is what you actually do...

1) If you use a gun for an actual crime, rape, robbery, murder, etc.......... life in prison, no parole.

2) If you are a prohibited person....a felon, and you are caught simply buying, owning or carrying a gun....15-30 years, no parole.

And by "actual crime" I don't mean a nurse, with a concealed carry permit and a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania to New Jersey with her legal gun......and becoming a felon because New Jersey laws don't allow her to carry her gun with her Pennsylvania permit.....

If you lock up actual gun criminals for life...you stop criminals from carrying guns in the first place....they will switch to knives, clubs and anything else.......it won't dry up gun crime completely....you know, that favorite thing anti-gunners say about their laws that won't do anything at all......because gangs will hand over their killing with guns to 15-16 year olds in greater numbers.....

But...it will dry up 95% of our gun crime.

Ok, so you're actually trying to make me believe that you, YOU want gun laws to be like Japan's?

How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

Japan stopped the Yakuza by using a Life Sentence...with a 95% conviction rate...before that, all of their other stupid laws on guns didn't stop criminals from using fully automatic weapons and grenades......

You focus on the wrong laws.....that is why nothing you suggest actually works...

http://www.atimes.com/article/japans-gun-control-laws-strict-yakuza-turn-toy-pistols/



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty.


The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

---

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

So that's a "yes" to have guns laws like in Japan? C'mon brah, get a grip. It works in Japan because of the whole package, not just a cherry-picked law.

 

[Taz]

But going from a massive heaping mound of turds down to a huge heaping mound of turds will still smell like a whole lotta shit.

The situation is improving. You don't have justification to start intruding upon my rights.

I'm not against people owning guns, just certain kinds, like the ones people tend to use in mass shooting to start with.

You mean pistols and shotguns...the most popular guns for mass shooters.....

In Japan you can only have hunting rifles and air rifles, I believe. That's what YOU want, isn't it? To be like Japan?

 

[hadit]

It doesn't directly, as was pointed out. It does, however, make possible the next steps on the path to confiscation and outright bans.

Owning weapons makes confiscation and outright bans possible.

Not so. You can, for example, have a constitutional requirement that Congress cannot prevent private citizens from owning guns.

 

[hadit]

Actually not, because a militia simply assumes every member is armed. In fact, it would argue for required gun ownership, otherwise there's no purpose for the militia.

Yet the constitution strongly implies the militia is the purpose.

It is a purpose, but not the only. It does not imply that, minus the militia, Congress has free rein to confiscate weapons.

 

[2aguy]

2a, you don't even have a plan to reduce gun violence in the US. And FYI, locking people up for longer AFTER the fact isn't going to get it done.

You are an idiot....I have the only plan that actually works...but because it doesn't include new laws that target normal gun owners, you aren't interested.

Japan implemented this and ended their Yakuza using fully automatic weapons and grenades.....

This plan is simple, and only targets criminals...which loses people like you right there....you don't care about stopping actual crime...it simply drives you insane when you think normal people own guns...

If you want to dry up 95% of gun crime in this country, this is what you actually do...

1) If you use a gun for an actual crime, rape, robbery, murder, etc.......... life in prison, no parole.

2) If you are a prohibited person....a felon, and you are caught simply buying, owning or carrying a gun....15-30 years, no parole.

And by "actual crime" I don't mean a nurse, with a concealed carry permit and a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania to New Jersey with her legal gun......and becoming a felon because New Jersey laws don't allow her to carry her gun with her Pennsylvania permit.....

If you lock up actual gun criminals for life...you stop criminals from carrying guns in the first place....they will switch to knives, clubs and anything else.......it won't dry up gun crime completely....you know, that favorite thing anti-gunners say about their laws that won't do anything at all......because gangs will hand over their killing with guns to 15-16 year olds in greater numbers.....

But...it will dry up 95% of our gun crime.

Ok, so you're actually trying to make me believe that you, YOU want gun laws to be like Japan's?

How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

Japan stopped the Yakuza by using a Life Sentence...with a 95% conviction rate...before that, all of their other stupid laws on guns didn't stop criminals from using fully automatic weapons and grenades......

You focus on the wrong laws.....that is why nothing you suggest actually works...

http://www.atimes.com/article/japans-gun-control-laws-strict-yakuza-turn-toy-pistols/



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty.


The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

---

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

So that's a "yes" to have guns laws like in Japan? C'mon brah, get a grip. It works in Japan because of the whole package, not just a cherry-picked law.

And no......since you are dumb...I will explain it to you slowly....

Japan requires their people to go through every gun control measure you guys want......and with all that gun control...it did not stop their actual criminals from getting fully automatic guns, and grenades......

Their gun control failed....

Then, after their gun control failed, they moved on to focusing on actual criminals.....they made it a life sentence to use a gun in a crime, 10-15 years for possessing a gun as a criminal....

So, they can throw out all the useless background checks, mental health checks, licensing and police state tactics....all they had to do was impose a real, honest to goodness life sentence for actual gun criminals.

 

[2aguy]

How does registration infringe one's ability to bear arms?

Because registration is used to ban and confiscate guns.....Germany, Britain, Australia, France, Canada, New York, California.....all registered guns, then came back and banned them....

 

[2aguy]

Telling us any different means you are either naive, or lying...... the only reason the anti-gunners are pushing universal background checks is to prepare the way for gun registration.....and gun registration is the next to the last step they want. The final step will be gun banning by model or class of weapon, once they get the political control they need to do it....

Hawkins: Universal Background Checks Unenforceable Without Gun Registry

While universal background checks are pushed as a response to the El Paso and Dayton shooting attacks, it should be remembered that such checks are unenforceable without a gun registry.
In other words, once such checks are in place, it is only a matter of time before lawmakers — in one party or the other — suggest a loose registration scheme. They will most likely do this in the days after the first mass public attack that occurs once universal background checks are the law of the land.

Think about it — universal background checks presume that the government knows about every gun sale, everywhere, at every time. That is the very meaning of the “universal” system — that all sales are covered by one background check.

The problem is that the government does not know where the vast majority of guns are at this very moment. Thus, as mass public attacks and/or high-profile shootings continue, they will claim we need a registry so the government knows where every gun is and can, therefore, know if any gun is changing hands without a background check.

We saw this scenario play out in California where universal background checks were adopted in the early 1990s. That state now has firearm registration requirements and a confiscation law as well. Moreover, California has a ten-day waiting period on gun purchases, a requirement that would-be gun buyers first get a gun safety certificate from the state, a one-handgun-a-month purchase limit, a minimum firearm purchase age of 21 years, a ban on campus carry, gun controls on ammunition sales, and more.

The lesson: It is all downhill once gun controllers secured universal background checks.

Another important point is that universal background checks will not stop mass public attacks. After all, Democrats pushed such checks in the wake of the Orlando Pulse shooting, but that shooter passed a background check for his guns. Gun controllers made the same push after the Las Vegas shooting, but that shooter passed a check for all his firearms as well. And the same goes for the Aurora movie theater attacker, the Parkland high school attacker, the Virginia Beach shooter, the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooter, and on and on.

you oppose background checks?

you have no problem with violent criminals buying guns and going out to kill innocent people?

Nope..... I support actually stopping criminals from using guns.....background checks don't stop criminals from using guns, as the 10,982 gun murders show. Mass shooters pass background checks so they don't even stop that...

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....why democrat politicians do this is beyond me......this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

 

[2aguy]

Telling us any different means you are either naive, or lying...... the only reason the anti-gunners are pushing universal background checks is to prepare the way for gun registration.....and gun registration is the next to the last step they want. The final step will be gun banning by model or class of weapon, once they get the political control they need to do it....

Hawkins: Universal Background Checks Unenforceable Without Gun Registry

While universal background checks are pushed as a response to the El Paso and Dayton shooting attacks, it should be remembered that such checks are unenforceable without a gun registry.
In other words, once such checks are in place, it is only a matter of time before lawmakers — in one party or the other — suggest a loose registration scheme. They will most likely do this in the days after the first mass public attack that occurs once universal background checks are the law of the land.

Think about it — universal background checks presume that the government knows about every gun sale, everywhere, at every time. That is the very meaning of the “universal” system — that all sales are covered by one background check.

The problem is that the government does not know where the vast majority of guns are at this very moment. Thus, as mass public attacks and/or high-profile shootings continue, they will claim we need a registry so the government knows where every gun is and can, therefore, know if any gun is changing hands without a background check.

We saw this scenario play out in California where universal background checks were adopted in the early 1990s. That state now has firearm registration requirements and a confiscation law as well. Moreover, California has a ten-day waiting period on gun purchases, a requirement that would-be gun buyers first get a gun safety certificate from the state, a one-handgun-a-month purchase limit, a minimum firearm purchase age of 21 years, a ban on campus carry, gun controls on ammunition sales, and more.

The lesson: It is all downhill once gun controllers secured universal background checks.

Another important point is that universal background checks will not stop mass public attacks. After all, Democrats pushed such checks in the wake of the Orlando Pulse shooting, but that shooter passed a background check for his guns. Gun controllers made the same push after the Las Vegas shooting, but that shooter passed a check for all his firearms as well. And the same goes for the Aurora movie theater attacker, the Parkland high school attacker, the Virginia Beach shooter, the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooter, and on and on.

if you are not a criminal you don't have anything to worry about.....

do you?

That's what the secret police in all totalitarian societies tell their citizens......

 

[2aguy]

It doesn't directly, as was pointed out. It does, however, make possible the next steps on the path to confiscation and outright bans.

Owning weapons makes confiscation and outright bans possible.

Wrong....if they ban guns and have a registration list, they don't have to go door to door. They simply wait till you get caught speeding, or have a noisy party, any time that you interact with police, they will bring up the list, check your name, and if you haven't turned in your gun, as recorded on the gun registration list....you will be arrested and your life destroyed.....

 

[Taz]

2a, you don't even have a plan to reduce gun violence in the US. And FYI, locking people up for longer AFTER the fact isn't going to get it done.

You are an idiot....I have the only plan that actually works...but because it doesn't include new laws that target normal gun owners, you aren't interested.

Japan implemented this and ended their Yakuza using fully automatic weapons and grenades.....

This plan is simple, and only targets criminals...which loses people like you right there....you don't care about stopping actual crime...it simply drives you insane when you think normal people own guns...

If you want to dry up 95% of gun crime in this country, this is what you actually do...

1) If you use a gun for an actual crime, rape, robbery, murder, etc.......... life in prison, no parole.

2) If you are a prohibited person....a felon, and you are caught simply buying, owning or carrying a gun....15-30 years, no parole.

And by "actual crime" I don't mean a nurse, with a concealed carry permit and a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania to New Jersey with her legal gun......and becoming a felon because New Jersey laws don't allow her to carry her gun with her Pennsylvania permit.....

If you lock up actual gun criminals for life...you stop criminals from carrying guns in the first place....they will switch to knives, clubs and anything else.......it won't dry up gun crime completely....you know, that favorite thing anti-gunners say about their laws that won't do anything at all......because gangs will hand over their killing with guns to 15-16 year olds in greater numbers.....

But...it will dry up 95% of our gun crime.

Ok, so you're actually trying to make me believe that you, YOU want gun laws to be like Japan's?

How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

Japan stopped the Yakuza by using a Life Sentence...with a 95% conviction rate...before that, all of their other stupid laws on guns didn't stop criminals from using fully automatic weapons and grenades......

You focus on the wrong laws.....that is why nothing you suggest actually works...

http://www.atimes.com/article/japans-gun-control-laws-strict-yakuza-turn-toy-pistols/



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty.


The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

---

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

So that's a "yes" to have guns laws like in Japan? C'mon brah, get a grip. It works in Japan because of the whole package, not just a cherry-picked law.

And no......since you are dumb...I will explain it to you slowly....

Japan requires their people to go through every gun control measure you guys want......and with all that gun control...it did not stop their actual criminals from getting fully automatic guns, and grenades......

Their gun control failed....

Then, after their gun control failed, they moved on to focusing on actual criminals.....they made it a life sentence to use a gun in a crime, 10-15 years for possessing a gun as a criminal....

So, they can throw out all the useless background checks, mental health checks, licensing and police state tactics....all they had to do was impose a real, honest to goodness life sentence for actual gun criminals.

No you can't throw the rest out, it's a package, take or leave or stfu.