Unions are (basically) Evil

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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There is an article in the local birdcage liner today, written by a former State Department official, bemoaning the American “war on unions” that was sparked – he claims - by President Reagan’s firing of the nation’s air traffic controllers when they struck – illegally - early in his Presidency.
The article goes on to cite statistics showing that the number of private-sector unionized workers has now slipped below 8% of the workforce – its lowest level in many decades. My first thoughts were that there is no “war on unions”; unions simply make their employers unable to compete in the global economy, so companies must do what they must in order to remain competitive. That may involve outsourcing production operations to smaller, non-union companies, moving manufacturing operations to “right to work” states, or even moving them overseas. But it’s not a “war” on unions – it’s just a battle to survive.
But on a deeper level, nobody questions the basic rectitude of unions and union work in general any more. The fact is that unions are basically evil & destructive, and we should all keep that in mind when considering their complaints, actions, and demands.
Collective bargaining is a device that ensures mediocrity in the workplace by protecting the least productive employees and discouraging the most productive (or creative) from working to their potential. It compensates everyone according to a pre-negotiated scale, thus extinguishing any individual’s inclination to be more productive or to suggest improvements to the “line.” Every ambitious person who has ever started working in a union shop has experienced the call of co-workers telling them to “slow down, you will make everyone else look bad.” Collective Bargaining Agreements (“CBA’s”) not only seek to maximize compensation and benefits for the members – nothing wrong with that - but also promote “featherbedding” (retaining jobs where the function is no longer needed), and work rules that minimize efficiency in order to maximize the number of dues-paying workers. How can any employer in a competitive industry bear this burden (unless his competitors are also stuck with it)?
It is not surprising that the majority of “union” manufacturing companies from the 1960’s have gone bankrupt; they simply cannot survive in a competitive economy. The ones that remain have largely moved overseas or greatly revamped their operations to minimize the number of union employees. GM’s unionized workforce is a small fraction of what it was in the 1970’s, while making about the same number of vehicles. Unions FORCED GM to accelerate the move to robotics. (And of course the Unions DID force GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy, but Our Beloved President bailed them out).
Many of the fiscal problems facing our governments large and small are due to CBA’s negotiated by politically-connected appointees who really didn’t care how much they gave away, knowing that by the time the “chickens came home to roost” they would be long gone. And when private sector unions were forced to give back some of their most generous benefits, public sector unions just laughed and carried on; their employers didn’t have to worry about going bankrupt or not being “competitive.” Thus we have government workers (mainly teachers) making wages comparable to the highest available in the private sector, benefits better than any private sector employer could possibly afford to pay, and generous, early retirements (at age 52 or so) that will be draining the wallets of American taxpayers for generations. And we taxpayers, are providing this compensation – at the point of a gun – to people who are UNION members who can never be fired for incompetence, rarely disciplined, and rarely forced to do anything they don’t feel like doing.
The “founding fathers” of our collecting bargaining history were avowed communists, but in the 40’s and 50’s that term became rather inflammatory, so they take great pains now not to use it any more. But they are still communists/socialists, and always have been. That’s what collective bargaining IS: everyone gets the same.
The near-death of private sector unions is not a bad thing. They have cost Americans millions and millions of jobs over the past few decades, while ensuring that the few remaining union jobs remain relatively well-paid. But because they contribute generously to Democrat politicians and causes, they are revered as though they were the salvation of the “working man.” The truth is just the opposite.
 
Of course they're evil. Capitalism exists solely to make profit, not provide jobs, good livings for workers, etc. Consequently, unions are antithetical to capitalism. Great if a worker, not so hot if a capitalist.
 
"With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed." Clarence Darrow

"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey 'Taking the Risk out of Democracy'

Been there done that. Oh and if you drive a foreign car they are all made in unions and Japan engages in keiretsu which is definitely government motors. Look it up.

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History repeats itself, or does it in America just continue for some people. Many Americans fail to realize we did not arrive at this place in time without a lot of turmoil and change, revolution, civil war, Laissez-faire capitalism, great depression, unions, new deal, civil rights, great society, riots, and on and on. This fictional dichotomy has existed in the minds of the simple since the New Deal - if not before - corporate America has since tattooed it into the minds of the impressible. Makes everything easy to categorize. I'd suggest for those interested in its story a book I am reading now. "Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalism—funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Invisible Hands The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan Kim Phillips-Fein 9780393059304 Amazon.com Books
 
Funny how the unions made GM to design crappy cars. How did they do that?

I can't be concerned about unions as long as there exists the Chamber of Commerce and the multitude of industry front groups
working to keep wages down with the help of right wing politicians from both parties.
 
Unions were very effective when they were able to establish some control over the labor market. This lead to more economic prosperity for everyone in the long run. It wasn't until their economic power started to erode that their impact on labor became potentially bad. The loss of power by labor and the increase of power by capital was somewhat inevitable which is why it is too bad that so many Americans still think capital owners need more power.

Capitalism is great but it can and will run out of control.
 
Unions were very effective when they were able to establish some control over the labor market. .

how stupid!!! How is driving up prices through govt violence effective?? Effective at what? Creating unemployment, high prices, harming the incentive to be worth more rather than to demand more and threaten violence??
 
How on earth are American workers going to compete with their Chinese counterparts if the unions keep fucking things up with their high wages and good benefits?
 
how stupid!!! How is driving up prices through govt violence effective?? Effective at what? Creating unemployment, high prices, harming the incentive to be worth more rather than to demand more and threaten violence??

What govt violence?

When unions were strongest our nation was strongest. A working man could support his family with one job and mothers were able to stay home and raise their kids. The economy was booming and the rich, as well as the working class, were making money.

Now that unions are the weakest they have been in my life time wages and the economy suck. I'd say the anti-unionists are delusional.
 
What govt violence?
.

dear, unions exist as violence. if you don't recognize them, bargain with them, keep them employed etc etc govt liberals with guns come for you.Before govt union violence unions were illegal. We should go back to that period.
 
When unions were strongest our nation was strongest.

dear, that's very very stupid. Correlation is not causality!! Do you want to bomb every country on earth with a significant economy the way it was done during WW2 so we will have the only economy left standing in the entire world again?

Do you want strong unions again with higher and higher pay so every single job in America will be off shored to China and India. You must think before you post.

If you want huge prosperity again just vote Republican. They are not anti business! Ask for details if you wish.
 
It has always fascinated me on just how brain washed the American right wing and conservatives are in our country. Reading their replies above only shows how really little they know, almost nothing about the real world they live in. While many buy foreign cars, all made by union workers except in the US, they continue to criticize unions in America whose power, especially since Reagan, is minimal. Conservatives seem to know absolutely no history, their ideas are finger pointing with no real sense of who is controlling their finger. A bit of history below, the historian's other books could also be read for the righty or conservative who wants to free themselves from the strings corporations used to manage them. Break your shackles righties and start to learn to think on your own.

"A closer look at causes and effects held out little hope for the near future. Real incomes had fallen so steeply that even a large increase in the number of working wives and mothers failed to improve the grim figures. In T975, 47.4 percent of women with children were in the workforce, a figure that by 1988 had risen to 65 percent. By 1990 "Median weekly family earnings from wages and salaries, adjusted for inflation, went from $516 in 1979 down to $471 in 1981, up to $537 in 1988 and then fell precipitously, to $50T today, according to the Labor Department." Even before the recession many families barely scraped by. Between 1969 and 1989 median household income in constant dollars had risen from $28,344 to $28,906, which actually constituted a decline owing to the great increase in working mothers. For white males with high school diplomas but no college education, wages had fallen by about 20 percent. Few corporations handed out cost living increases anymore, mostly because few could afford to, given the absence of serious productivity gains. For reasons economists did not understand, during the seventies and eighties productivity-the output of the economy per hour of work-increased at only half the rate of the 1950S and 1960s, except in the ever-shrinking manufacturing sector.

In most other industrial nations Strong unions protected the income of workers, as they once had in the United States. But the trade union movement as a whole had become a shell of its former self. In some cases this resulted from union-busting campaigns, in others entire unionized industries like steel had shriveled away, victims of cheap imports and lower production costs overseas. As late as 1975 steel had employed half a million workers, but by 1992 only 120,000 steelworkers still had jobs in the industry, and their numbers continued to dwindle. In the private sector as a whole, the percentage of jobs held by unionized workers had fallen from its all-time high of 35.7 percent in 1953 to 12 percent in 1990. If not for modest gains in the public sector, this figure would have been smaller stilt In the service industry conditions, only fair at best, had also worsened. In the 19805, when services added some 20 million jobs and employed almost four of five workers, the debate turned on whether these were desirable jobs, but steady growth could be taken for granted. Except for health services, by January 1992 this assumption had ceased to be valid. In this recession, service industries suffered more than during earlier downturns. More managers and professionals were let go than in the 1981-1982 recession. Retailers had been laying off workers for 22 consecutive months." p36,37 "A Bubble in Time: America During the Interwar Years, 1989-2001' William L. O'Neill
 
they continue to criticize unions in America whose power, especially since Reagan, is minimal.

100% stupid and liberal of course. Unions are like a cancer that has been radiated. It comes back too soon. Our auto industry is now almost exclusively down south just because there are no unions down there!! In short, powerful unions drove our industry off shore and now that industry has been replaced here by a foreign industry running south from the lib commie unions even though the trained workers, factories, and infrastructure is up north.

Slow??
 
Excellent post, Midcan5. You have obviously given the matter considerable thought. A few things to consider:

Unions abroad generally do not take the same adversarial position that U.S. domestic unions do. I wouldn't even suggest I know the reason for this, but it is what it is. I have worked for several European firms, most of whom have "unionized" engineering staffs. The unions work hand in hand with management to maximize productivity while making sure that compensation is good and working conditions favorable. Benefits are not so important over there because of socialized medicine, retirement, and so forth. But unions also work with management to "deal with" employees who don't make the grade. I have seen them moved around until they finally find a position where they can be productive, or if not, they are terminated and the union doesn't night it (however, unemployment is not as dire there as it is here, as they make almost as much when unemployed, and there is no time limit).

There is no obvious solution to the problem American unions have with the "global economy." Free Markets have been shown historically to produce the greatest overall prosperity, but it places American production workers in direct competition with virtual slave labor from China and other global hell-holes. Erecting trade barriers and high tariffs doesn't work because trade wars result, and a large segment of our economy is export. As I say, no obvious solution.

The times when a union man could support a wife and kids and buy a house & car on his own income were also the days before we were forced, kicking and screaming, into the global economy. Those days are gone forever.

There is a big difference between a craft/trade union and a labor union. Craft unions evolved from the old guilds, which provided a valuable public service (ensuring competence of skilled tradesmen) while protecting the interests of the craftsmen. Labor unions' employees have no skill to sell; they are the bottom of the barrel and the only way they can promote their members' interests is through strong-arm tactics. Unfortunately, that mentality has filtered up to the trade unions, professional unions, and unfortunately government workers unions.

Never forget: since less than 8% of America's workforce is "organized," the other 92% SOMEHOW manages to survive without having a union. We negotiate our own pay and benefits, we stay when we are happy and leave when we are not. We are subject to termination at any time, for no reason at all, or for any reason but unlawful discrimination. Most people do fine.
 
Booty Bin

When I think of the radical Teamsters union leader Jimmy Hoffa, I realize that America is basically a cauldron for economics dialogue and debate.

Maybe capitalism is to blame and bless simultaneously.

I remember the children's animated television series "DuckTales" (Disney TV Animation) which presented stories about an affable wealthy relative of Disney's Donald Duck (named Scrooge McDuck) who must care for three small boy ducks while fending off the challenges of diabolical profiteers such as Flintheart Glomgold and seeking strange and interesting adventures.

It's a certain truth that bargaining yields paranoia.


:afro:

Flintheart Glomgold


1138cop.jpg
 
"most people" just means "more than half". So, if your work force is 200 million people, most doing fine means that 99 million people AINT doing fine Newsflash for you, in the US, over 50 MILLION people are "doing" terribly
 
they continue to criticize unions in America whose power, especially since Reagan, is minimal.

100% stupid and liberal of course. Unions are like a cancer that has been radiated. It comes back too soon. Our auto industry is now almost exclusively down south just because there are no unions down there!! In short, powerful unions drove our industry off shore and now that industry has been replaced here by a foreign industry running south from the lib commie unions even though the trained workers, factories, and infrastructure is up north.

Slow??
Dear, the US companies seem to have no problem with operating in China, where it is fundamental right to have unions...You see the difference is....profit margins......
 

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