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Good. You've recognized I'm right. Thanks for the additional information. Live long and prosper.
Actually, you proved me right.But...but...but it's for the children!!! Why do you hate children?!! /Statist mode
The pre-existing condition rules kicked in for children 6 months after the bill was passed. So, again, as usual, as always,
you have no idea what you're talking about.
So, by your reasoning, Wal-Mart, Ford, HP, CVS, and IBM should all be regulated by big gov't since they all rank higher than UHC.
Are you sore from all that contorting?common sense....or lack thereof said:since none of these companies provide a product that is potentially life saving, no. it is a detrimental system to let health care providers earn these ridiculous profits. As i stated earlier, think about how much your premium would be reduced if they were required to reinvest their profits back into the company, say in the same way Kaiser does. (This is one of a few reasons Kaiser can keep its costs lower thank most, as they are a non profit - you can argue about the way they implement their care, but they are great at controlling costs) as long as they dont have any regulations on them, they will continue to raise their premiums in order to keep the profits levels up. Even without health care reform, our costs will still rise.
you do realize that insurance companies profit from taking in premiums and not paying out expenses. accounting 101. money in less money out = profit. (or for a more technical answer - The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss) now, when HC providers are deemed to be for profit enterprises, they are allowed to mark up their product to create profits which benefit owners, shareholders or the value of the company.
A non-profit organization, is an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them to help pursue its goals. hence, they must reinvest all profits (that are not paid out in the way of salaries, bonuses, business expenses) back into the company. hence the term "non profit". health care insurers and providers are some of the most profitable companies in america. and they are allowed to be publicly traded. (United Health Care AETNA, CIGNA etc) thus they have to show a profit to investors otherwise their share price plummets and the company loses money. this one is counterintuitive to providing health care. when you have a fixed amount of dollars coming in, because you provide a contract services, there are only 3 ways to increase profits. 1) cut your costs 2) reduce your liabilities. 3)increase your contacts. lets throw out #3 for arguments sake and say you are not able to increase the number of contracts for a given period of time. that leaves you with 2 options, cut costs or reduce liabilities. well the biggest liability a HC provider has the cost of patient care. so in order to reduce your liability there you have to cut services or deny services. its basic math. what if insurance and health care providers had to pump billions of dollars back into the system for patient care and cost reduction. wow, i just single handedly lower out of pocket costs for everyone........... (not that this will ever happen tho)
and btw, Ford is regulated the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. They have minimum crash test rules and guidelines that they must follow.
CVS makes most of its money out of prescription drugs, also regulated by the FDA
Wal-Mart actually refuses to offer health care to part time workers and makes it difficult for employees to unionize. (fortunately with the new health care bill, they will be forced to take some of their profits and help their employee obtain health care)
there are also plenty of banks (chase, wells fargo, bank of america) on the list above UHS, they are also regulated by the government as well due to the risks they took that led to the market collapse. yet just a few years ago they begged the government to bail them out so they wouldnt have had to file bankruptcy
the oil industry is heavily regulated as well (remember the BP oil spill that the tax payers are on the hook for because of the deregulation of lack of liability that BP has against oil spills?)
i fail to see your point in picking and choosing a few companies who you say make huge profits and asking if we should regulate them, because most of them we actually do for consumer safety.
I think this thread points out the true problem in the system. It doesn't have all that much to do with health care. Once these arguments begin the divide gets further and further, then pride becomes a factor. People start arguing not allowing to concede a single point on any basis or compromise on anything. All decisions become polarized extremes and progress changes from making actual universal progress to winning the eternal political tug of war game.
Your posts are filled with inaccurate bullshit.
Your posts are filled with inaccurate bullshit.
fantastic argument. are you just not wanting to be mandated to purchase insurance, or are you upset with the idea of being denied care should you choose to sign the waiver?
(and i can provide proof for every dollar amount and statistic stated in all my posts, can you?)
Your posts are filled with inaccurate bullshit.
fantastic argument. are you just not wanting to be mandated to purchase insurance, or are you upset with the idea of being denied care should you choose to sign the waiver?
(and i can provide proof for every dollar amount and statistic stated in all my posts, can you?)
Add this statistic, What is the profit percentage that the insurance companies make, compared to the local Taco Bell's?
More bullshit.
Why not compare the profit margins to Apple? Or to Chinese fireworks manufacturers? Or anything else?
It's bullshit. It doesn't matter what their profit margins are. It doesn't matter what their gross or net profits are.
From the time I was 18 til I was 35 I saw a doctor probably twice. All the money I spent on health insurance was a waste. If someone wants to make that decision and not buy it, or buy simply a catastrophic policy, it ought to be his right.
Tell you what, ColonScent, either agree to government guidelines on healthy eating or pledge to give up any claim stemming from eating.
I'm looking at something more like a Profit Margin for Health insurance companies of 3.3%
REIT Health care facilities of 24.6%
CARPE DIEM: Profit Margin: Health Insurance Industry Ranks #86
Seems to me the insurance industry makes pennies while others make dollars. They simply do a lot more pennies.
But I could be wrong, just seems 3% ain't so much.
I'm looking at something more like a Profit Margin for Health insurance companies of 3.3%
REIT Health care facilities of 24.6%
CARPE DIEM: Profit Margin: Health Insurance Industry Ranks #86
Seems to me the insurance industry makes pennies while others make dollars. They simply do a lot more pennies.
But I could be wrong, just seems 3% ain't so much.
#14 sorry, i trust CNN more than an economists personal blog. although they end up having roughly the same number.
Global 500 2009: Top Performers - Most Profitable Industries: Return on Revenues - FORTUNE on CNNMoney.com
plus your post only takes hospitals into account, not all managed health care facilities.
you are confusing profit margins with markups and profits. Margins are what individual goods are marked up. say 25%. profits are the actual dollars you earn in your pocket after all expenses are paid. (ie rent, utilities, insurance, taxes, salaries) look at my post. even some of the most profitable industries show profits of less than 20%. think of it this way tho, if you run a business and for every dollar that you take in, after paying every expense you have, you make 10 cents on the dollar, youre doing pretty well. my father had a small business that had gross revenues of around $350,000 annually. he had returned 10%, then after paying everyone and everything, he should have had $35,000 in the bank. he did not though. he marked up his products an average of 40%, but his net return at the end of the year was somewhere near 5% or $17,500. so he grew his business by 5% and "profited" $17,500. thats not all that bad. $17,500 in his pocket. his annual salary was around $60,000. which means if he had taken home all of the profits as his bonus, his bonus would have been 30%.
hope this helps clear up confusion.
I'm looking at something more like a Profit Margin for Health insurance companies of 3.3%
REIT Health care facilities of 24.6%
CARPE DIEM: Profit Margin: Health Insurance Industry Ranks #86
Seems to me the insurance industry makes pennies while others make dollars. They simply do a lot more pennies.
But I could be wrong, just seems 3% ain't so much.
#14 sorry, i trust CNN more than an economists personal blog. although they end up having roughly the same number.
Global 500 2009: Top Performers - Most Profitable Industries: Return on Revenues - FORTUNE on CNNMoney.com
plus your post only takes hospitals into account, not all managed health care facilities.
you are confusing profit margins with markups and profits. Margins are what individual goods are marked up. say 25%. profits are the actual dollars you earn in your pocket after all expenses are paid. (ie rent, utilities, insurance, taxes, salaries) look at my post. even some of the most profitable industries show profits of less than 20%. think of it this way tho, if you run a business and for every dollar that you take in, after paying every expense you have, you make 10 cents on the dollar, youre doing pretty well. my father had a small business that had gross revenues of around $350,000 annually. he had returned 10%, then after paying everyone and everything, he should have had $35,000 in the bank. he did not though. he marked up his products an average of 40%, but his net return at the end of the year was somewhere near 5% or $17,500. so he grew his business by 5% and "profited" $17,500. thats not all that bad. $17,500 in his pocket. his annual salary was around $60,000. which means if he had taken home all of the profits as his bonus, his bonus would have been 30%.
hope this helps clear up confusion.
It clears up that you don't have a fucking clue. Your explanation of margin is absurdly wrong. Not to mention irrelevant.
More bullshit.
Why not compare the profit margins to Apple? Or to Chinese fireworks manufacturers? Or anything else?
It's bullshit. It doesn't matter what their profit margins are. It doesn't matter what their gross or net profits are.
From the time I was 18 til I was 35 I saw a doctor probably twice. All the money I spent on health insurance was a waste. If someone wants to make that decision and not buy it, or buy simply a catastrophic policy, it ought to be his right.
Tell you what, ColonScent, either agree to government guidelines on healthy eating or pledge to give up any claim stemming from eating.
more anger and BS coming from your mouth. you still post no valid argument to making HC providers non profits. its hard for you to admit stupidity isnt it?
and its your own damn fault you went to the doctor 2 times in 17 years.
hahaha ColonScent. is that the best you can do? call me name and made worthless threats. this coming from guy who calls himself "The Rabbi?" Way to look ignorant in your representation of the Jewish faith.
someone asked for the stats and i provided them. you provide nothing but baseless opinions on this matter.
you cant even agree with my waiver program, which is in direct response to you not wanting to be forced to buy insurance. so sign the waiver, but if you cant pay, then you get denied at the door. plain and simple.
The Infidel;2989535 [FONT="Comic Sans MS" said:I dont need facts and figures to know that the HC Bill is unconstitutional.....plain and simple!
Its a power grab and nothing more.[/FONT]