Ukrainian pilot shot down Malaysian Boeing MH17, secret witness says. 12/23/2014

[Stratford57]

Russia is invading the Ukraine and let us not forget Stalin murdered 9 million plus Ukrainian people by forced starvation. But the the Malaysian jumbo jet has got to be out there somewhere. I believe it was hijacked and they are holding it and I feel very strongly that Putin knows where that plane is!

Another year of anti-Russian propaganda and all the people of Western countries will start believing that kind of nonsense too...

 

[Stratford57]

Stratford yes I do not have proof that seperatist shot it down, or that Russia was involved. From your op though I do know that secret witness was full of crap. As to the rest of the accusations I do not know, just a suspicion that they did. But I am just shocked that as a Ukrainian that you seem happy that pro Russian forces shot down a Ukrainian plane. I would never want my country men hurt or shot at. Yes they hold different political views but if Russia is so good for them being that close, I would think over time they would assimilate back. Sometimes patience is the better way. Instead of invading and trying to make them submitt. Just a thought. Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to you too. I was happy that rebels were shooting Ukrainian planes because those planes were bombing residential areas and tearing civilians into pieces. Official Kiev declared the war on ethnic Russians in SE Ukraine (I'm one of them) which didn't agree with the February coup and self-proclaimed government, based on Nazi's support. And if you have noticed: it was not people from SE who came to Kiev and started bombing it, it was official Kiev which sent its troops to force SE to obey. That's how the civil war started. And all those accusations about Russian regular troops being in Ukraine or Putin invading Ukraine is nothing but Western propaganda. There are volunteers from Russia, but also there are a lot of citizens of Georgia, Poland, Lithuania and many other countries fighting on Ukrainian side. Believe me, you would be shocked even more if you knew the real truth about what's official Kiev is doing to its citizens all over the country, but especially in SE.
And I am not Ukrainian, I'm an ethnic Russian, who has been cut off from the Motherland in 1991, when the USSR collapsed, and had to reside in a foreign country.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Stratford yes I do not have proof that seperatist shot it down, or that Russia was involved. From your op though I do know that secret witness was full of crap. As to the rest of the accusations I do not know, just a suspicion that they did. But I am just shocked that as a Ukrainian that you seem happy that pro Russian forces shot down a Ukrainian plane. I would never want my country men hurt or shot at. Yes they hold different political views but if Russia is so good for them being that close, I would think over time they would assimilate back. Sometimes patience is the better way. Instead of invading and trying to make them submitt. Just a thought. Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to you too. I was happy that rebels were shooting Ukrainian planes because those planes were bombing residential areas and tearing civilians into pieces. Official Kiev declared the war on ethnic Russians in SE Ukraine (I'm one of them) which didn't agree with the February coup and self-proclaimed government, based on Nazi's support. And if you have noticed: it was not people from SE who came to Kiev and started bombing it, it was official Kiev which sent its troops to force SE to obey. That's how the civil war started. And all those accusations about Russian regular troops being in Ukraine or Putin invading Ukraine is nothing but Western propaganda. There are volunteers from Russia, but also there are a lot of citizens of Georgia, Poland, Lithuania and many other countries fighting on Ukrainian side. Believe me, you would be shocked even more if you knew the real truth about what's official Kiev is doing to its citizens all over the country, but especially in SE.
And I am not Ukrainian, I'm an ethnic Russian, who has been cut off from the Motherland in 1991, when the USSR collapsed, and had to reside in a foreign country.

Move back to Russia.

 

[Stratford57]

Not a bad idea, thanks. So far it's the goal of millions of Russian speaking people, trapped in Nazi-based Ukraine: to move to Russia and to take all our historical Russian lands with us. But we need Russia's approval for that, so far we haven't got it.
If the Western world really wants to help solving Ukrainian crisis peacefully and to save thousands of lives, a smart way to do it would be to come along with Russia , split Ukraine among the countries, to which historically the certain parts of Ukraine were belonging: Poland, Hungary, Romania and Russia and to leave Central Ukraine as is. Also:
- all Nazis in Ukraine should be neutralized, otherwise they will spread all over Europe in a blink of an eye;
- there should be a war tribunal for all Ukrainian war criminals, who participated in genocide of there own people.
That's basically what has been done after WW2 and should be done again.

Move back to Russia.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not a bad idea, thanks. So far it's the goal of millions of Russian speaking people, trapped in Nazi-based Ukraine: to move to Russia and to take all our historical Russian lands with us. But we need Russia's approval for that, so far we haven't got it.
If the Western world really wants to help solving Ukrainian crisis peacefully and to save thousands of lives, a smart way to do it would be to come along with Russia , split Ukraine among the countries, to which historically the certain parts of Ukraine were belonging: Poland, Hungary, Romania and Russia and to leave Central Ukraine as is. Also:
- all Nazis in Ukraine should be neutralized, otherwise they will spread all over Europe in a blink of an eye;
- there should be a war tribunal for all Ukrainian war criminals, who participated in genocide of there own people.
That's basically what has been done after WW2 and should be done again.

Move back to Russia.

So far it's the goal of millions of Russian speaking people, trapped in Nazi-based Ukraine: to move to Russia

Nazi based? How do you figure?

and to take all our historical Russian lands with us.

You want to take the Ukrainian territory with you?
There isn't enough territory in Russia already?

- all Nazis in Ukraine should be neutralized, otherwise they will spread all over Europe in a blink of an eye;

As long as we can neutralize all the Nazis and Commies in Russia, first.

 

[Stratford57]

At the end of the discussion I'd like to point out one more thing. The last negotiations between the pilot of crashed AirAsia and the air traffic controllers have been already released. Within a day after the tragedy has happened. Now let's compare: it’s been almost 6 months since MH-17 crash and the last negotiations between its pilot and Ukrainian air traffic controllers hasn’t been released yet. One can ask: WHY???? Can anybody answer that question?

I’m not an expert, I can’t judge if Russian witness is good or bad, but they are at least trying. Meanwhile Obama has “irrefutable evidence” about who’s guilty in that tragedy and he is not in a particular hurry to release it. From my point of view it raises a lot of questions, especially in combination with official Kiev silence about last MH-17 pilot and Ukrainian air traffic controller negotiations.

I think if Obama and Ukrainians have any respect for the memory of victims and for their families, they have to share all the information they possess with the rest of the world. And those who are guilty in that tragedy should be judged and punished regardless whose side they represent. And the accusation should be based on strong facts and proof, it should be much better that a few Facebook pictures, drawings or pathetic declarations.

Angry families of MH17 crash victims seek U.N. investigation:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/05/us-ukraine-crisis-mh-idUSKCN0JJ1OK20141205

 

[georgephillip]

"The Dutch launched the largest criminal investigation in their history after the crash. This week, trucks are carrying pieces of the plane home, but much of the wreckage still lies in Ukrainian fields.

"Dutch investigators, leading a case involving 11 countries, have not concluded how the plane was shot down or identified suspects.

"The Netherlands 'has completely botched' the fact-finding investigation and the legal framework of the case, said the letter, sent on behalf of 20 relatives from Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands and the United States."

Angry families of MH17 crash victims seek U.N. investigation Reuters

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Russia is invading the Ukraine and let us not forget Stalin murdered 9 million plus Ukrainian people by forced starvation. But the the Malaysian jumbo jet has got to be out there somewhere. I believe it was hijacked and they are holding it and I feel very strongly that Putin knows where that plane is!

Another year of anti-Russian propaganda and all the people of Western countries will start believing that kind of nonsense too...

Another year of anti-Russian propaganda

Poor Russia, always the victim.

 

[Stratford57]

So far it's the goal of millions of Russian speaking people, trapped in Nazi-based Ukraine: to move to Russia

Nazi based? How do you figure?

and to take all our historical Russian lands with us.

You want to take the Ukrainian territory with you?
There isn't enough territory in Russia already?

- all Nazis in Ukraine should be neutralized, otherwise they will spread all over Europe in a blink of an eye;

As long as we can neutralize all the Nazis and Commies in Russia, first.

I prefer to talk to the people who are able to think, Toddster. There is a good Russian saying: “A person who doesn’t want to see is worse than a blind one.” You pay attention to minor things and leave the important things alone. I tried to tell you about the pain of millions of Russian speaking people in Ukraine and you have pointed out that Russia is big enough and it doesn’t need more lands. Well, the USA was big too, however they bought Alaska from Russians, didn’t they? My personal advise to you: try to dig deeper in your future logic exercises and you may be awarded with figuring out more truth beyond that pravda, delivered by your Media.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So far it's the goal of millions of Russian speaking people, trapped in Nazi-based Ukraine: to move to Russia

Nazi based? How do you figure?

and to take all our historical Russian lands with us.

You want to take the Ukrainian territory with you?
There isn't enough territory in Russia already?

- all Nazis in Ukraine should be neutralized, otherwise they will spread all over Europe in a blink of an eye;

As long as we can neutralize all the Nazis and Commies in Russia, first.

I prefer to talk to the people who are able to think, Toddster. There is a good Russian saying: “A person who doesn’t want to see is worse than a blind one.” You pay attention to minor things and leave the important things alone. I tried to tell you about the pain of millions of Russian speaking people in Ukraine and you have pointed out that Russia is big enough and it doesn’t need more lands. Well, the USA was big too, however they bought Alaska from Russians, didn’t they? My personal advise to you: try to dig deeper in your future logic exercises and you may figure out more truth beyond pravda, delivered by your Media.

View attachment 35464

Have another drink, Ivan.
Stop invading your neighbors.

 

[Camp]

"The Dutch launched the largest criminal investigation in their history after the crash. This week, trucks are carrying pieces of the plane home, but much of the wreckage still lies in Ukrainian fields.

"Dutch investigators, leading a case involving 11 countries, have not concluded how the plane was shot down or identified suspects.

"The Netherlands 'has completely botched' the fact-finding investigation and the legal framework of the case, said the letter, sent on behalf of 20 relatives from Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands and the United States."

Angry families of MH17 crash victims seek U.N. investigation Reuters

After the 298 murder victims are left to rot in the sun by the Russian sponsored murderers, their luggage and personal effects are looted and robbed from the crash site and they left some little toys at the crime scene to remember the little kids they blasted out of the sky.

 

[georgephillip]

After the 298 murder victims are left to rot in the sun by the Russian sponsored murderers, their luggage and personal effects are looted and robbed from the crash site and they left some little toys at the crime scene to remember the little kids they blasted out of the sky.

Do you know why the coup government in Kiev hasn't released the communications between the cockpit of flight MH17 and the control tower?

 

[Camp]

After the 298 murder victims are left to rot in the sun by the Russian sponsored murderers, their luggage and personal effects are looted and robbed from the crash site and they left some little toys at the crime scene to remember the little kids they blasted out of the sky.

Do you know why the coup government in Kiev hasn't released the communications between the cockpit of flight MH17 and the control tower?

The government in Kyiv was not a coup government. Internationally observed and certified elections were held in May.
The recordings and transcripts between air traffic controllers and M 17 have never been held by the Kyiv government. What recordings are you speaking of? Perhaps you are referring to the made up ones that never existed. The real ones have always been available. Those are the ones from Dnipropetrovsk air traffic control. The Russian controllers at Rostov/Don should have their own. The flight was in the process of being turned over to them at the time of the incident. Kyiv control never had anything to do with M 17.

 

[JimH52]

But nice try Comrade......

 

[georgephillip]

After the 298 murder victims are left to rot in the sun by the Russian sponsored murderers, their luggage and personal effects are looted and robbed from the crash site and they left some little toys at the crime scene to remember the little kids they blasted out of the sky.

Do you know why the coup government in Kiev hasn't released the communications between the cockpit of flight MH17 and the control tower?
T

The government in Kyiv was not a coup government. Internationally observed and certified elections were held in May.

The coup took place in February, remember?
Think the CIA was involved?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Russia is invading the Ukraine and let us not forget Stalin murdered 9 million plus Ukrainian people by forced starvation. But the the Malaysian jumbo jet has got to be out there somewhere. I believe it was hijacked and they are holding it and I feel very strongly that Putin knows where that plane is!

Another year of anti-Russian propaganda and all the people of Western countries will start believing that kind of nonsense too...

Anti-Russian propaganda? I think not. Russia did invade the Ukraine. Stalin did murder 9 million plus Ukranian people by forced starvation. The Malaysian jumbo jet did go missing and to this day it has never been found. Putin did do a cover photo on TIME magazine with a shadow of a jumbo jet behind him in photo. Putin overplayed his hand with his out of control ego on that one and I'm very, very suspicious that he is indeed in control of where that plane is being hidden and when it will be used. I do not trust Putin and the rest of what was written is verifiable fact. NOT ANTI - RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

So far it's the goal of millions of Russian speaking people, trapped in Nazi-based Ukraine: to move to Russia

Nazi based? How do you figure?

and to take all our historical Russian lands with us.

You want to take the Ukrainian territory with you?
There isn't enough territory in Russia already?

- all Nazis in Ukraine should be neutralized, otherwise they will spread all over Europe in a blink of an eye;

As long as we can neutralize all the Nazis and Commies in Russia, first.

I prefer to talk to the people who are able to think, Toddster. There is a good Russian saying: “A person who doesn’t want to see is worse than a blind one.” You pay attention to minor things and leave the important things alone. I tried to tell you about the pain of millions of Russian speaking people in Ukraine and you have pointed out that Russia is big enough and it doesn’t need more lands. Well, the USA was big too, however they bought Alaska from Russians, didn’t they? My personal advise to you: try to dig deeper in your future logic exercises and you may be awarded with figuring out more truth beyond that pravda, delivered by your Media.

View attachment 35464

So far it's the goal of millions of Russian speaking people, trapped in Nazi-based Ukraine: to move to Russia

Nazi based? How do you figure?

and to take all our historical Russian lands with us.

You want to take the Ukrainian territory with you?
There isn't enough territory in Russia already?

- all Nazis in Ukraine should be neutralized, otherwise they will spread all over Europe in a blink of an eye;

As long as we can neutralize all the Nazis and Commies in Russia, first.

I prefer to talk to the people who are able to think, Toddster. There is a good Russian saying: “A person who doesn’t want to see is worse than a blind one.” You pay attention to minor things and leave the important things alone. I tried to tell you about the pain of millions of Russian speaking people in Ukraine and you have pointed out that Russia is big enough and it doesn’t need more lands. Well, the USA was big too, however they bought Alaska from Russians, didn’t they? My personal advise to you: try to dig deeper in your future logic exercises and you may be awarded with figuring out more truth beyond that pravda, delivered by your Media.

View attachment 35464

I do not see any sign of Todd being incapable of thinking here. More to the point I think Todd has seen through your shenanigans here and isn't buying your claim to victim. The Ukraine is the victim and because of your loyalty to Putin you are worse off than a blind man according to your Russian saying.
On the matter of the pain of millions of Russian speaking people in Ukraine - I've seen more than one video of the other side being tortured, burned with cigarettes, women being forced to write in their own blood from a wound inflicted by the Russians and she was told if she ran out of blood they would kill her. Victims?! I think not! What nerve you have, Stratford!

On the matter of Alaska. We bought it fair and square for 7.2 million dollars and since then have made 100's of times that price in profit. It was a very lucrative deal for the Americans and if the Russians were foolish enough to sell it because they did not realize the wealth of Alaska - that is their problem. Not ours.

 

[georgephillip]

http://www.newsweek.com/oliver-ston...an-president-accuses-cia-sparking-coup-295814

"American film director and Pentagon critic Oliver Stone has announced he is shooting a documentary on Ukraine’s revolution arguing the CIA instigated the coup that toppled pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych.

“'It’s America’s soft power technique called ‘Regime Change 101,' Stone said of the deposition of Yanukovych in February following months of protests, calling the former Ukrainian leader the 'legitimate President of Ukraine'”.

Is it possible for a president to be corrupt yet legitimate?

You Decide.

 

[georgephillip]

But nice try Comrade......

"
AUGUST 2014: DR. MICHAEL HUDSON: It is not in the news that Senate bill, 2277 = Directed the U.S. Agency for International Development to begin guaranteeing loans for the fracking of oil and gas in the Ukraine. And Vice President Biden’s son has become the head of the biggest fracking company in the Ukraine. The armies from Kiev are marching into Eastern Ukraine to protect the fracking operations. But the Cities in Eastern Ukraine want local control over the fracking. People in the city of Sloviansk oppose shale gas being developed because it destroys their ground water supply and farm land.

"HUDSON: Imagine if Obama-Biden send troops into upstate New York which opposes oil/gas drilling, and bombed Rochester and Buffalo and shooting opponents of fracking. Keiv is doing that in Eastern Ukraine supported by the World Bank to try to make Ukraine independent gas imports from Russia. Kiev planned destruction in Eastern Ukraine is to divert major water flows flow into Yalta and Crimea to starve them and end agriculture in favor of fracking."

August 2014 Concise Politics

 

[PK1]

So far Russians are the only ones who are trying to push MH-17 crash investigation. Holland and Britain, who are designated to investigate it, are keeping suspiciously silence. Malaysia, who’s Boeing was shot, is not even allowed to participate in investigation, may be because it has published some results of its own in in July:
MH17 Pockmarks look like from very very heavy machine gun fire says first OSCE monitor on-scene New Straits Times
At the time of crash there was a group of American satellites above the place of the catastrophe, which has taped the full picture of the Boeing crash. However that information has not been provided to the public probably because it doesn’t support what the narrative the USA, EU and Ukraine have been telling.
At the end of his interview the secret witness said: “I would recommend to analyze all the reports of deaths/whereabouts of all the Ukrainian professional fighter pilots since July, 17. More likely such kind of person would be eliminated by now.” Russia is hoping ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) would be interested to use the new witnesses’ data in their investigation.

For those who don’t remember I’d like to remind: Ukraine has already had experience in shooting a civilian plane and denying it before, in 2001. The plane was flying from Israel to Russia.

A secret witness claims that it was a Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft that downed the Malaysian Boeing, flight MH-17, near Donetsk, in the summer of 2014. The Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper, whose journalists interviewed the unnamed witness, said that on July 17, two Ukrainian military aircraft were shot down in the war zone, and the pilot of the third fighter jet fired an air-to-air missile into the Malaysian Boeing.

(The witness is not ready to announce his name to public yet because he has relatives in Ukraine and fears for their lives and safety. As a non-proud resident of Ukraine I can confirm: he has very good reasons for that. There truly are a lot of people killed, kidnapped and thrown to prison, just because they didn’t share same point of view with official Kiev. And as a rule local police even refuses to investigate those cases.)

Below is the interview that the man gave to the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper.

Su-25 fighter jet returned without missiles



Ukrainian pilot shot down Malaysian Boeing MH17 secret witness says - English pravda.ru

---
Do you & Putin still believe the claims you made in your OP?
The MH17 airliner was shot down by a pilot of a jet ??
.