Ukraine "Or" Israel?

I have many friends among the population of Israel, and not a few on the Palestinian side.

The Israeli government must go. They are attempting to commit genocide.

That said, so should the Palestinian government for the same reason, although they aren't as good at it as Israel is.

However we cannot let Ukraine fall to the Russians under any circumstances.
The Ukrainian war could have been avoided. Tens of thousands have died for nothing. It’s time for a negotiated peace.


 
Did he? What did Zelensky do?

DIANA JOHNSTONE: US Foreign Policy Is a Cruel Sport​

February 23, 2022

Bear baiting was long ago banned as inhumane. Yet today, a version is being practiced every day against whole nations on a gigantic international scale.

". . . The Minsk agreement set out a few steps to end the internal Ukrainian crisis. First, Ukraine was supposed to immediately adopt a law granting self-government to eastern regions (in March 2015). Next, Kiev would negotiate with eastern territories over guidelines for local elections to be held that year under OSCE supervision. Then Kiev would implement a constitutional reform guaranteeing eastern right. After the elections, Kiev would take full control of Donetsk and Lugansk, including border with Russia. A general amnesty would cover soldiers on both sides.

However, although it signed the agreement, Kiev has never implemented any of these points and refuses to negotiate with the eastern rebels. Under the so-called Normandy agreement, France and Germany were expected to put pressure on Kiev to accept this peaceful settlement, but nothing happened. Instead, the West has accused Russia of failing to implement the agreement, which makes no sense inasmuch as the obligations to implement fall on Kiev, not on Moscow. Kiev officials regularly reiterate their refusal to negotiate with the rebels, while demanding more and more weaponry from NATO powers in order to deal with the problem in their own way.

Meanwhile, major parties in the Russian Duma and public opinion have long expressed concern for the Russian-speaking population of the eastern provinces, suffering from privations and military attack from the central government for eight years. This concern is naturally interpreted in the West as a remake of Hitler’s drive to conquest neighboring countries. However, as usual the inevitable Hitler analogy is baseless. For one thing, Russia is too large to need to conquer Lebensraum."


You Want an Enemy? Now You’ve Got One

"Germany has found the perfect formula for Western relations with Russia: Are you or are you not a “Putinversteher,” a “Putin understander?” By Putin they mean Russia, since the standard Western propaganda ploy is to personify the targeted country with the name of its president, Vladimir Putin, necessarily a dictatorial autocrat. If you “understand” Putin, or Russia, then you are under deep suspicion of disloyalty to the West. So, all together now, let us make sure that we DO NOT UNDERSTAND Russia! . . "
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You sound like a dunce when you call criticism of CCP brutality “whining”.
Hey, dummy. China has allowed Hong Kong to have a surprising amount of autonomy, which given the circumstances, is pretty decent of them. They could have walked in the day the British left, appointing their people in charge, Instead, they are letting Hong Kong have it's own constitution and system until 2047.

Same with Tibet. Ah, let's talk about Tibet, shall we? Before the PRC re-established Chinese authority over Tibet, the Lama class had a theocracy where torture was kind of the norm. Before he started palling around with Richard Gere, he was in charge of a brutal regime where slavery was practiced.


In theocratic feudal Tibet, torturing methods such as eye gouging and amputation were common as punishments for thieves and runaway slaves. Quite contrary to the peaceful teachings of Buddhism, isn't it?

Most of us in the West have a Shangri-La-esque view of the old Tibet, but that is hardly the case. Old Tibet was not a state based on peace and harmony but of oppression and torture.



Biden is leading us into WW III. Why do you support him?
You Trump cultists need to stop drinking the Koolaid.
 
Hey, dummy. China has allowed Hong Kong to have a surprising amount of autonomy, which given the circumstances, is pretty decent of them. They could have walked in the day the British left, appointing their people in charge, Instead, they are letting Hong Kong have it's own constitution and system until 2047.

Same with Tibet. Ah, let's talk about Tibet, shall we? Before the PRC re-established Chinese authority over Tibet, the Lama class had a theocracy where torture was kind of the norm. Before he started palling around with Richard Gere, he was in charge of a brutal regime where slavery was practiced.


In theocratic feudal Tibet, torturing methods such as eye gouging and amputation were common as punishments for thieves and runaway slaves. Quite contrary to the peaceful teachings of Buddhism, isn't it?

Most of us in the West have a Shangri-La-esque view of the old Tibet, but that is hardly the case. Old Tibet was not a state based on peace and harmony but of oppression and torture.




You Trump cultists need to stop drinking the Koolaid.
Looks like somebody is deeply in love with brutal dictator Xi Jin Ping. When are you two getting hitched? You could torture minorities on your honeymoon for fun.

Biden has backed that war criminal Netanyahu. Biden wants to prolong the Ukraine War. Tell us why you still serve Biden. I guess you are really fond of mass murder.
 
Looks like somebody is deeply in love with brutal dictator Xi Jin Ping. When are you two getting hitched? You could torture minorities on your honeymoon for fun.
My (Chinese) wife would probably be upset about that if I did. We did go to Disneyland on our honeymoon, which was only slightly torturous.

Biden has backed that war criminal Netanyahu.
Uh, get real, guy, Trump was more in Bibi's pocket than Biden ever was. FUck, the Zionists control BOTH sides of the political divide in this country, except a few Nazis on the right and a few Muslims on the left.

Biden wants to prolong the Ukraine War.
What is prolonging that war is that neither side wants to stop fighting. So the only way Biden could stop it would be to cut off Zelensky, and frankly, that would be the worst act of appeasement since Neville Chamberlain.

Tell us why you still serve Biden. I guess you are really fond of mass murder.

I support Biden (my President) because the alternative is a fucking maniac with a cult following.
 
What is our goal in regards to Ukraine? It seems to me we don’t really have one we do enough to keep Russia from overrunning the country but not enough for Ukraine to push them out it just maintains the status quo. It’s basically the modern version of the trench warfare of WW1 this benefits the weapons manufacturers but that is about it.
 
My (Chinese) wife would probably be upset about that if I did. We did go to Disneyland on our honeymoon, which was only slightly torturous.


Uh, get real, guy, Trump was more in Bibi's pocket than Biden ever was. FUck, the Zionists control BOTH sides of the political divide in this country, except a few Nazis on the right and a few Muslims on the left.


What is prolonging that war is that neither side wants to stop fighting. So the only way Biden could stop it would be to cut off Zelensky, and frankly, that would be the worst act of appeasement since Neville Chamberlain.



I support Biden (my President) because the alternative is a fucking maniac with a cult following.
The goal should be to disempower the pro-Zionist wing in the Democratic Party. There is a growing element within the party that despises the Israelis. For some reason you support the Zionist-subservient establishment wing of the party. Why not vote for a third party candidate? How else can the Democratic Party be reformed?

Biden could pressure Zelensky to negotiate peace. The war is at a stalemate. Why do you want the war to continue? Not enough corpses for you?

Since Biden loves pointless wars and tens of thousands of dead bodies isn’t he the maniac?

I can’t believe you would support Biden who has backed war criminal Netanyahu. Netanyahu has killed about 14,000 children.
 
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Lol, that's giving Putin what he wants.

Why are you kids all on his side?
The goal should be to seek compromise between competing ethnic groups. Many Russians are worried about the ever-expanding hostile NATO alliance. The Russians, the Ukrainians, and NATO can all accept an independent, neutral Ukraine. Russia and Ukraine can negotiate the disputed border. It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s better than WW III.
 
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Which country's survival is more important to U.S. interests? If Ukraine goes down, Russia will re-arm and start looking at the rest of eastern Europe. If Israel goes down, so what? Iran will go back to minding its own business.
If Russia was bent on restoring the USSR, I believe Kiev would look like Gaza City by now. By all accounts Russia viewed NATO expansion into Ukraine as an existential threat; once that threat is removed, Russian expansionism will end.

Imho, we need a common definition of "US interests."

Both Ukraine and Israel serve the economic interests of the US military/industrial/congressional complex; however, Ukraine will be sacrificed long before our "unsinkable aircraft carrier" in Israel.
 
I have many friends among the population of Israel, and not a few on the Palestinian side.

The Israeli government must go. They are attempting to commit genocide.

That said, so should the Palestinian government for the same reason, although they aren't as good at it as Israel is.

However we cannot let Ukraine fall to the Russians under any circumstances.
You’re right except for Ukraine. None of our business. This awful provoked war is nothing but a racket to enrich war contractors and the two crime families.

Only a fool wants to see the continued destruction of the Ukrainian people for nefarious reasons.

War is a racket. How many times must I tell you?

Shut off NPR and BBC.
 
What is our goal in regards to Ukraine? It seems to me we don’t really have one we do enough to keep Russia from overrunning the country but not enough for Ukraine to push them out it just maintains the status quo. It’s basically the modern version of the trench warfare of WW1 this benefits the weapons manufacturers but that is about it.

Um, okay, but this funny thing happened in WWI. The Germans (the aggressors) eventually lost because they couldn't see the value in it.

Eventually, Russians will wonder why they are starving over a few hundred square miles when they have plenty of land already.
 
Compromise and a negotiated settlement for both conflicts are in America’s interest.

The CCP is the primary danger to the USA.

US foreign policy should focus on depriving the CCP of allies. There are good reasons for Russia and various Muslim countries to avoid a Chinese alliance.
Russia has a fragile economy and is having a difficult time against Ukraine and Iran is a paper tiger using proxies to fight their wars.
 
Neither. Neither conflict has a direct impact on the US, if we are doing the correct things on our own soil. Isolationism and Nationalism forever, folks.
These nonstop wars and foreign interventions have failed miserably causing massive death and destruction, along with enormous financial costs imposed on the American people as many suffer in or near poverty. However a select few Americans have benefited greatly, as occurs with all wars.

What’s truly amazing are the number of average Americans who continue to support this shit, to their own detriment. We see some of these Americans every day on this forum.

The old adage a sucker is born every minute, is very applicable.
 

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