U.s. And mexico

[Saladin]

You are going about this 'scientifically'. It won't work. Not unless all these mestizos are willing to have DNA testing. The fact is that mestizos are of indian and spanish blood lines. Ten percent of Mexico's pop is 'pure' indian. The word 'castizo' is no longer applicable as nobody is genuinely anything. Cholos?? This term is NOW used to identify people of Mexican descent born outside of Mexico and who live with one foot in Mexico and the other in the USA and that term has also lost its original meaning. And what/why does all this matter in the 21st century????

The fact of the matter is that a substantial number of those identified as "mestizos" are of predominantly Amerindian racial ancestry, and the attempt to depict them as anything else is likely motivated by an attempt to conceal the dispossession of the indigenous American population, just as certain fools identify Palestinians as Jordanians. For example, refer to Genetic admixture and diversity estimations in the Mexican Mestizo population from Mexico City using 15 STR polymorphic markers:

The 15 AmpFlSTR Identifiler loci D8S1179, D21S11, D7S820, CSF1PO, D3S1358, TH01, D13S317, D16S539, D2S1338, D19S433, vWA, TPOX, D18S51, D5S818 and FGA were analyzed in a sample of 378 unrelated individuals from Mexico City, Mexico. Significant deviations from HW equilibrium in 14/15 STR loci alleles were not detected. The D18S51 locus had the highest power of discrimination (0.970). Genetic admixture estimations revealed a 69% of Amerindian, 26% of European and 5% of African contribution.

Their inclusion into the Amerindian race is not unsound, considering their resemblance to Amerindians and parallel inclusion of African-Americans into the black race despite their possession of a minority amount of white blood. Moreover, illegal immigrants are typically of far greater Amerindian ancestry than Mexico City residents, obviously.

 

[GHook93]

You are going about this 'scientifically'. It won't work. Not unless all these mestizos are willing to have DNA testing. The fact is that mestizos are of indian and spanish blood lines. Ten percent of Mexico's pop is 'pure' indian. The word 'castizo' is no longer applicable as nobody is genuinely anything. Cholos?? This term is NOW used to identify people of Mexican descent born outside of Mexico and who live with one foot in Mexico and the other in the USA and that term has also lost its original meaning. And what/why does all this matter in the 21st century????

The fact of the matter is that a substantial number of those identified as "mestizos" are of predominantly Amerindian racial ancestry, and the attempt to depict them as anything else is likely motivated by an attempt to conceal the dispossession of the indigenous American population, just as certain fools identify Palestinians as Jordanians. For example, refer to Genetic admixture and diversity estimations in the Mexican Mestizo population from Mexico City using 15 STR polymorphic markers:

The 15 AmpFlSTR Identifiler loci D8S1179, D21S11, D7S820, CSF1PO, D3S1358, TH01, D13S317, D16S539, D2S1338, D19S433, vWA, TPOX, D18S51, D5S818 and FGA were analyzed in a sample of 378 unrelated individuals from Mexico City, Mexico. Significant deviations from HW equilibrium in 14/15 STR loci alleles were not detected. The D18S51 locus had the highest power of discrimination (0.970). Genetic admixture estimations revealed a 69% of Amerindian, 26% of European and 5% of African contribution.

Their inclusion into the Amerindian race is not unsound, considering their resemblance to Amerindians and parallel inclusion of African-Americans into the black race despite their possession of a minority amount of white blood. Moreover, illegal immigrants are typically of far greater Amerindian ancestry than Mexico City residents, obviously.

So whity once again strikes down the brown and black people! Is there anything those white devil won't do, bastards?

 

[Angelhair]

"some biologists doubt that there are important genetic differences between races of human beings"

Can't remember where I read the above.

'So whity once again strikes down the brown and black people! Is there anything those white devil won't do, bastards?'

LOL - whitey did this???

 

[José]

Originally posted by Angelhair
Why are you sending Jose to hell????? He is, I think, sincere in expressing his feelings towards the son with Down Syndrome. Chill Lilolady - CHILL!

Thanks, Angel : )

Expressing compassion for the suffering of others seems to be "stupidity" in granny's warped mind.

 

[SW2SILVER]

MESSAGE TO THE PEOPLE OF MEXICO:​

We, AMERICAN HYPOCRITES, urge you to "work for “better life” in Mexico for all of Mexico" but If we happened to be born on the "wrong" side of the border we'd be jumping that wall faster than a roadrunner racing a jackrabbit... JUST LIKE YOU!!

Jose, that's an interesting point you make about hypocrits. Immigration activist portray illegal aliens as victims of racist laws that unfairly target Latinos. Then of course, these people love to make matters even more complicated by confusing the difference between legal VS illegal immigrants. That is a big difference to sweep under the rug. But, then some people grudgingly admit to the difference, but find it unimportant. They imply that the higher moral ground is to protest immigration laws. They advocate breaking immigration laws in the same way Martin Luther King broke segregation laws. They say it’s a victimless crime; immigration laws are antiquated and inhumane. The list goes on and on, on how BAD immigration laws are. Well, there is a little flaw in that rationale. Immigration laws do NOT discriminate between any groups, specifically Latinos. It isn’t a civil rights issue. Immigration laws may be outdated, but that is subjective. It’s not up to foreign nationals with vested interests to dictate American laws because it doesn’t suit their needs. I know a few illegal aliens. They aren’t here because of horrible evils or intolerable suffering. If they were, I would advocate FOR Mexican/Latin American illegal aliens. Yep. But the plain simple fact is: Most illegal aliens don’t NEED to enter illegally; there is no valid reason for them to violate immigration laws by any stretch of the imagination. Except, they are living conveniently next door, and they can get away with it by sneaking in and blending in with the local Latino populace. Some of notice this, and we want it stopped. Thing is, it’s been made into a racial/tolerance/diversity issue. I’m angry at illegal aliens. That makes me a racist? It’s true, I hate them. I believe in non-violence, and I wish them no physical harm. Because I hate illegals, that doesn’t validate them or minimize my position. I don’t hate their race. Their race has NOTHING to do with it, they can’t whine about racism and at the same time use their race as an excuse to get away with bloody murder. What I hate about them is what they represent. They are self centered manipulative opportunists. I hate hypocrisy and double standards, most of all. If they want to be treated fairly in America, they can return the favor and act fairly and immigrate LEGALY. So, what is the big deal? They won’t do it. They don’t have too. To many Americans are drinking that PC flavored kool-aid. It’s easier to go with the flow, hide your individual skeptical self, and accept anything a member of a minority group says without question. It’s da style, hommie.

 

[Saladin]

So whity once again strikes down the brown and black people! Is there anything those white devil won't do, bastards?

Pointing out that the majority of illegal immigrants are Amerindians at the bottom of a racial caste system in Latin America is a mere acknowledgment of reality. What I'm also doing is rebutting the disingenuous assertion that the Amerindians (usually inaccurately identified as "Hispanic" or "Latino," with all dark-complexioned Spanish speakers thought to be such despite the racial heterogeneity of "Hispanics") constitute a homogenous bloc in Mexico and other countries. In reality, they constitute a racial underclass.

 

[Angelhair]

'Pointing out that the majority of illegal immigrants are Amerindians at the bottom of a racial caste system in Latin America is a mere acknowledgment of reality. What I'm also doing is rebutting the disingenuous assertion that the Amerindians (usually inaccurately identified as "Hispanic" or "Latino," with all dark-complexioned Spanish speakers thought to be such despite the racial heterogeneity of "Hispanics") constitute a homogenous bloc in Mexico and other countries. In reality, they constitute a racial underclass. '

This is true - but - where you and I part ways is blaming those with 'white' skin and blaming the USA. The reason for these people staying as a racial underclass is due to their own CULTURE. They have refused to move forward with the rest of the world. Their culture breeds corruption thus breeding poverty and discrimination.

 

[Saladin]

This is true - but - where you and I part ways is blaming those with 'white' skin and blaming the USA. The reason for these people staying as a racial underclass is due to their own CULTURE. They have refused to move forward with the rest of the world. Their culture breeds corruption thus breeding poverty and discrimination.

Your commentary is far too ambiguous to constitute a substantive argument. "Culture"? Many Amerindians have adopted the Hispanic culture imported by whites, complete with Catholicism and a bullfighting fetish. Please, do attempt to remember that it is the whites of predominantly Spanish descent that constitute the racial upper class in Mexico and other Latin American countries as well as the ruling political class. Indigenous movements, by contrast, have at times violently revolted against that state of affairs. Never heard of the Zapatistas?

 

[Claudette]

Couldn't agree more Ollie.

These illegals come over here and suck our social services dry because we have a bunch of assholes in our Congress that are more concerned with gaining the Hispanic vote than with we taxpayers supporting a bunch of illegal aliens.

They are in our country ILLEGALLY. The Mexican Govt loves them to work and send dollars back to Mexico. Big part of their economy. Have nothing against the Mexican people per se, but if they want to come here they should do it legally like others do.

My biggest bitch is with our Govt that will do nothing to curb these illegals because they are looking for the Hispanic vote. Assholes one and all, both parties.

 

[Claudette]

I wonder how long they would stay if they were treated here as illegals are treated in Mexico??? NOt long I would wager. Good idea. Should be law.

 

[Saladin]

Couldn't agree more Ollie.

These illegals come over here and suck our social services dry

A common misconception, not supported by facts. For example, Camarota's The High Cost of Cheap Labor. Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget (a decidedly anti-immigrant study, the conclusion of which I happen to disagree with, incidentally), notes that "[o]n average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households." More than that, it's a well-known reality that illegal immigrants that acquire and use false Social Security numbers leave a substantial unused sum in state and federal coffers, since they are unable to claim the benefits.

They are in our country ILLEGALLY.

Considering the aforementioned divergence between legal and ethical standards, that doesn't amount to much. Violation of Jim Crow laws was also illegal, while slavery was legal in an earlier time, but that obviously did not provide ethical justification for the laws that now strike us as clearly immoral. Moreover, I'm not impressed by primitive jingoism, especially considering that the productive resources now controlled by the U.S. political and economic classes were gained through the dispossession of the indigenous population that most illegal immigrants belong to.

The Mexican Govt loves them to work and send dollars back to Mexico. Big part of their economy.

The relevant issue is not whether a substantial amount of illegal immigrants' families' financial aid comes from remittances, but whether a substantial amount of their earnings in the U.S. are going towards that provision, considering the issue of diminishing marginal utility (i.e. what's worth a little in the U.S. might be worth a lot in Mexico). However, at this point, remittances are actually declining.

Have nothing against the Mexican people per se, but if they want to come here they should do it legally like others do.

Again, the divergence between the legal and ethical standards must be considered. What "others" are you referring to, however? If there were opportunities for convenient legal entry into the U.S., I suspect that immigrants would not attempt dangerous desert treks to enter undetected from border patrol agents, as there would be no incentive to do so.

My biggest bitch is with our Govt that will do nothing to curb these illegals because they are looking for the Hispanic vote. Assholes one and all, both parties.

"Hispanic" vote? "Hispanics" do not constitute a homogenous race; the classification is actually rather useless, as persons of any race can be "Hispanic." What's ironic is that many white Hispanics (since the term is Spanish in origin, after all) have a significant amount of disdain for the Amerindian "Hispanics" that constitute the majority of the illegal immigrant population, since Native Americans are a racial underclass in Mexico and much of Latin America.

 

[Saladin]

I wonder how long they would stay if they were treated here as illegals are treated in Mexico??? NOt long I would wager. Good idea. Should be law.

Why is that? The Mexican government has adopted a cruel anti-working class policy. I don't believe that it should be the aim of the U.S. government to merely imitate authoritarian state policy.

 

[Angelhair]

Nah, the USA becoming like all the rest of the countries is not the answer. The answer is to make sure that our existing immigration laws are put into practice and not deviate from them no matter what or who! This is the greatest country in the world and I for one do not want it to fall to the level of all the rest. What I do want is for those who come here to respect its laws, follow the rules, give it loyalty and allegiance and stop the whinning. I love our open door policy which allows those who are not happy here to leave freely.

 

[Angelhair]

"Hispanic" vote? "Hispanics" do not constitute a homogenous race; the classification is actually rather useless, as persons of any race can be "Hispanic." What's ironic is that many white Hispanics (since the term is Spanish in origin, after all) have a significant amount of disdain for the Amerindian "Hispanics" that constitute the majority of the illegal immigrant population, since Native Americans are a racial underclass in Mexico and much of Latin America.'

The label hispanic is ONLY for those who have ONE commonality and that is the spanish language. The native americans do NOT fall under that umbrella as they speak native american languages neither which is spanish. The label hispanic is NOT a racial label but a language label. Don't confuse them.

 

[Saladin]

The label hispanic is ONLY for those who have ONE commonality and that is the spanish language. The native americans do NOT fall under that umbrella as they speak native american languages neither which is spanish. The label hispanic is NOT a racial label but a language label. Don't confuse them.[/I]

There are a substantial number of Native Americans that are "Hispanics," since as mentioned, "Hispanic" is merely a linguistic term of sorts whereas "Native American" is a racial term.

 

[Angelhair]

The native americans who can claim (but who don't) the label 'hispanic' are the Yaquis as their tribe was split when the USA bought parts of the southwest - some stayed in the USA some in Mexico. They are the only tribe who speak spanish as the Mexican government deported many deep into Mexico during the time Mexico had claim to the southwest.

'In 1916, Mexico had a constitutional governor named Adolpho de la Huerta, who was one-quarter Yaqui. He made the first attempts to restore Yaqui land and stop the bloodshed. But, the next president, Alvaro Obregon, changed the policy, and the Yaqui-Mexican wars continued.'

 

[Saladin]

The native americans who can claim (but who don't) the label 'hispanic' are the Yaquis as their tribe was split when the USA bought parts of the southwest - some stayed in the USA some in Mexico. They are the only tribe who speak spanish as the Mexican government deported many deep into Mexico during the time Mexico had claim to the southwest.

'In 1916, Mexico had a constitutional governor named Adolpho de la Huerta, who was one-quarter Yaqui. He made the first attempts to restore Yaqui land and stop the bloodshed. But, the next president, Alvaro Obregon, changed the policy, and the Yaqui-Mexican wars continued.'

No one has made any reference to cultural affiliations, as my primary reference here is to racial groups. The best example is probably the Mixtec farmers and agrarian workers of Oaxaca who travel to the U.S. as immigrants and are ignorantly and incorrectly regarded as "Hispanics" or "Mexicans" by those unaware of the fact that the ruling class of Mexico is predominantly of European Spanish descent and dark-complexioned persons constitute a racial underclass as a result of their Amerindian ancestry. As the term "Hispanic" is a term that refers to nationalities of former countries of the Spanish empire, it can refer to any national of such a country regardless of their racial origins.
As to my point here, consider this article:

Many governments define "Indians" as people who live in native communities and speak only a native tongue. When an Indian moves to a city and learns Spanish or another language, he or she is no longer considered "indigenous, but "mestizo."

Government sources estimate that there are 40 million Indians in North and South America. Non-governmental sources put the figure at closer to 100 million. The discrepancy in numbers is attributed to the large amount of "mestizos," or racially mixed people, who consider themselves or can be considered Indian, yet are not recognized as such by their governments.

The majority of "Hispanic" illegal immigrants are Amerindians disingenuously identified as "mestizos" or something else because they've undergone some degree of Hispanicization, regardless of the fact that they remain a racial underclass in much of Latin America.

 

[Angelhair]

They travel to the USA ILLEGALLY! And the other thing, YOU seem to lose sight of the fact that the USA is the most diverse country in the world and it is ludicrous for you to keep bringing up 'facts and figures' that amount to a hill of beans in the REAL world. This country is like no other when it comes to allowing people from all over this planet to enter. Whether Mexico is run by European/Spanish people is purely subjective on your part. Mexico has had many people in power who are indian and still they remain in the 'dark ages'. You must stop blaming the USA for the world's plight. The majority does not buy it.

 

[antagon]

You must stop blaming the USA for the world's plight. The majority does not buy it.

'send us your poor' pre-dates manifest destiny and is one of the best supported columns of our society. africans, puritans, irish, chinese, italian, polish, cuban, mexican, haitian... all of those who are resposible for the diversity of our country to which you alluded were welcomed here en masse, and to the chigrin of the current citizens. our country prevailed as a result of these mass-immigrations notwithstanding citizens making the same timeless arguements common today.

perhaps you must stop blaming the mexicans for the US's plight. the government doesnt buy it.

 

[Angelhair]

Illegal migration into ANY country is not something that should be allowed! This country allows thousands upon thousands to enter LEGALLY EVERY year! The ILLEGAL entrance must be stopped before it's too late! Many seem to not know the difference between illegal and legal. What's up with that???