Turkey' Erdogan says Ukraine deserves to be a NATO member

[Silver Cat]

The Russians may not think they are orcs anymore, but the rest of the world has concluded they still are, and while you may be happy that Russia is no longer part of the civilized world, Putin is alternately raging and whining that Russia cannot sell its grain or fertilizer because banks, including Chinese banks, will not facilitate the sales and the shipments cannot be insured. Clearly, Russia will not have commercial access to most of the world until many years, perhaps generations, after it withdraws from Ukraine.

They thought that they were not Orcs back in 2013 (and it was bad) , but in 2014 they became Orcs back, and it is good, not bad.
While, of course, they understanding of who are Orcs is quite different from the traditional western.

The Last Ringbearer - Еськов Кирилл :: Режим чтения

royallib.com

[...]Fifty miles east from the Orodruin volcano, where the light-minded babbling brooks originating from the snows of the Ash Mountains turn into staid, respectable canals and then subside quietly into the pulsing heat of the Mordor plain, lies the oasis of Gorgoroth. For ages they would gather two annual crops of cotton, rice, dates and grapes here, while the handiwork of local weavers and weapon-makers was prized throughout Middle Earth. Of course, the nomadic Orocuens have always looked with scorn on their tribesmen who chose the life of a farmer or a craftsman: everybody knows that the only occupation worthy of a man is cattle-breeding; that is, if you don’t count robbing caravans. This attitude, however, had never prevented them from regularly driving their flocks to the markets of Gorgoroth, where the sweet-talking Umbarian merchants who quickly came to dominate local trade would invariably fleece them. Those crafty fellows, ever ready to risk their heads for a handful of silver, drove their caravans throughout the East, not spurning either slave trade or smuggling, or even plain robbery, when convenient. However, their main source of income had always been the export of rare metals, mined in abundance from the Ash Mountains by the stocky unsmiling Trolls – unequaled miners and smelters, who later monopolized all stonemasonry in the Oasis, too. Life side by side had long trained the sons of all three peoples to eye the neighbors' daughters with more interest than their own, to make fun of each other (“An Orocuen, an Umbarian, and a Troll walk into a bar…”), and to defend the Ash Mountain passes and the Morannon against the Western barbarians together.
This, then, was the yeast on which Barad-Dur rose six centuries ago, that amazing city of alchemists and poets, mechanics and astronomers, philosophers and physicians, the heart of the only civilization in Middle Earth to bet on rational knowledge and bravely pitch its barely adolescent technology against ancient magic. The shining tower of the Barad-Dur citadel rose over the plains of Mordor almost as high as Orodruin like a monument to Man – free Man who had politely but firmly declined the guardianship of the Dwellers on High and started living by his own reason. It was a challenge to the bone-headed aggressive West, which was still picking lice in its log ‘castles’ to the monotonous chanting of scalds extolling the wonders of never-existing Númenor. It was a challenge to the East, buckling under the load of its own wisdom, where Ying and Yang have long ago consumed each other, producing only the refined static beauty of the Thirteen Stones Garden. And it was a challenge to a certain someone else, for the ironic intellectuals of the Mordor Academy, unbeknownst to them, have come right up to the line beyond which the growth of their power promised to become both irreversible and uncontrollable.[... ]

[...]There are two ways to avoid this calamity. One is to water very sparingly, so that the water in the shallow capillaries does not connect with the groundwater. Another possibility is the so-called flushing cycle, whereby you cause a regular flooding that carries the constantly upwelling salt away to the sea or some other terminal drain. This, however, can only be done in the valleys of large rivers that flood regularly – it is that spring flood that washes away the salt accumulated over the previous year. This is precisely what happens, for example, in Khand, and it was precisely that irrigation model that the inexperienced Mordor engineers have copied in a sincere belief that the quality of irrigation is determined by the number of cubic furlongs of earth moved.
But it is impossible to establish a flushing cycle in the closed basin of Mordor, since there are no rivers flowing through it, and the only terminal drain is the Sea of Núrnen – the very same Núrnen whose tributaries got diverted to irrigate far-flung fields. The negligible elevation difference meant that there was no way to create anything like a flood in those channels, so there was nothing to flush the salt and nowhere to flush it. After a few years of bumper crops the inevitable happened – huge tracts of land were rapidly salted, and all attempts to establish drainage failed due to high groundwater levels. The end result was an enormous waste of resources and massive damage to the country’s economy and ecology. The Umbarian system of minimal irrigation would have suited Mordor just fine (and been a lot cheaper to boot), but this opportunity had been irretrievably lost now. The masterminds of the irrigation project and its executives were sentenced to twenty-five years in lead mines, but, predictably, that did not help anyone.
This event had been a major setback, but still not a catastrophe. By that time Mordor was deservedly being called the World’s Smithy, and it could trade its manufactured goods for any amounts of food from Khand and Umbar. Caravans of traders went back and forth through the Ithilien crossroads day and night, and there were more and more voices in Barad-Dur saying that the country has had enough tinkering with agriculture, which was nothing but a net loss anyway, and the way to go was to develop what nobody else had – namely, metallurgy and chemistry. Indeed, the industrial revolution was well underway: steam engines toiled away in mines and factories, while the early aeronautic successes and experiments with electricity were the talk of the educated classes. A universal literacy law had just been passed, and His Majesty Sauron the VIII has declared at a session of parliament (with his usual ton-of-bricks humor) that he intended to equate truancy and treason. The excellent work of an experienced diplomatic corps and a powerful intelligence apparatus permitted a drastic reduction of the professional army, so that it was not a major burden on the economy.
But it was at that time that the words that changed the entire history of Middle Earth were said; strangely, they repeated almost exactly a prophetic utterance made in another World regarding a very different country: “A state that is unable to feed itself and is dependent on food imports cannot be considered a formidable foe.”[...]


[...]
He came to in a large clearing with a good view of the valley of the Great River. His hands were tied behind his back, his Mordorian uniform was all singed tatters, and the entire left side of his body was one large burn – the device worked, praise Aulë! Belatedly he saw an Elf squatting to the left of him, on the side of the eye almost covered with dried lymph. The Elf was disgustedly wiping his flask with a rag – apparently, he had just been pouring Elvish wine down the prisoner’s throat.
“You awake?” the Elf inquired in a melodious voice.
“Mordor and the Eye!” Wolverine responded automatically (imagine dying as an Orc! Well, them’s the breaks…)
“Quit pretending, dear ally!” The Firstborn was smiling, but his eyes burned with such hatred that his vertical cat’s pupils narrowed into tiny slits. “You are going to tell us everything about those strange games of His Majesty Elessar Elfstone, aren’t you, beastie? There shouldn’t be any secrets between allies.”
“Mordor… and… the Eye…” The lieutenant’s voice was still even, although Manwe only knew the effort it took: the Elf had casually dropped his hand to the prisoner’s broken ankle and…
“Sir Engold, look! What’s that?!”
At the cry of his comrades the Elf turned around and stared, frozen, at something resembling a colossal dandelion swiftly grow to the sky beyond the Anduin, right where Caras Galadhon ought to be – a thin blinding-white stalk crowned with a bright-red bulbous ‘flower.’ Almighty Eru, if this thing is indeed in Galadhon, how huge must it be? What Galadhon? There’s probably not even ashes left there…[...]

 

[Silver Cat]

The Russians may not think they are orcs anymore, but the rest of the world has concluded they still are, and while you may be happy that Russia is no longer part of the civilized world, Putin is alternately raging and whining that Russia cannot sell its grain or fertilizer because banks, including Chinese banks, will not facilitate the sales and the shipments cannot be insured. Clearly, Russia will not have commercial access to most of the world until many years, perhaps generations, after it withdraws from Ukraine.

Actually, Putins words about problems of grain export is nothing but a cover to his program of significant increasing of the State's food reserves and prevention of the food inflation. Now, bread and pork in Russia are cheaper than year ago. Their goal is to be able to survive three years without harvest (while they do not believe in the conception of "Nuclear Winter", the climate changes might be unpredictable in the case of quite possible all-out nuclear war (especially with those "gigaton class torpedoes").

 

[toomuchtime_]

They thought that they were not Orcs back in 2013 (and it was bad) , but in 2014 they became Orcs back, and it is good, not bad.
While, of course, they understanding of who are Orcs is quite different from the traditional western.

The Last Ringbearer - Еськов Кирилл :: Режим чтения

royallib.com

[...]Fifty miles east from the Orodruin volcano, where the light-minded babbling brooks originating from the snows of the Ash Mountains turn into staid, respectable canals and then subside quietly into the pulsing heat of the Mordor plain, lies the oasis of Gorgoroth. For ages they would gather two annual crops of cotton, rice, dates and grapes here, while the handiwork of local weavers and weapon-makers was prized throughout Middle Earth. Of course, the nomadic Orocuens have always looked with scorn on their tribesmen who chose the life of a farmer or a craftsman: everybody knows that the only occupation worthy of a man is cattle-breeding; that is, if you don’t count robbing caravans. This attitude, however, had never prevented them from regularly driving their flocks to the markets of Gorgoroth, where the sweet-talking Umbarian merchants who quickly came to dominate local trade would invariably fleece them. Those crafty fellows, ever ready to risk their heads for a handful of silver, drove their caravans throughout the East, not spurning either slave trade or smuggling, or even plain robbery, when convenient. However, their main source of income had always been the export of rare metals, mined in abundance from the Ash Mountains by the stocky unsmiling Trolls – unequaled miners and smelters, who later monopolized all stonemasonry in the Oasis, too. Life side by side had long trained the sons of all three peoples to eye the neighbors' daughters with more interest than their own, to make fun of each other (“An Orocuen, an Umbarian, and a Troll walk into a bar…”), and to defend the Ash Mountain passes and the Morannon against the Western barbarians together.
This, then, was the yeast on which Barad-Dur rose six centuries ago, that amazing city of alchemists and poets, mechanics and astronomers, philosophers and physicians, the heart of the only civilization in Middle Earth to bet on rational knowledge and bravely pitch its barely adolescent technology against ancient magic. The shining tower of the Barad-Dur citadel rose over the plains of Mordor almost as high as Orodruin like a monument to Man – free Man who had politely but firmly declined the guardianship of the Dwellers on High and started living by his own reason. It was a challenge to the bone-headed aggressive West, which was still picking lice in its log ‘castles’ to the monotonous chanting of scalds extolling the wonders of never-existing Númenor. It was a challenge to the East, buckling under the load of its own wisdom, where Ying and Yang have long ago consumed each other, producing only the refined static beauty of the Thirteen Stones Garden. And it was a challenge to a certain someone else, for the ironic intellectuals of the Mordor Academy, unbeknownst to them, have come right up to the line beyond which the growth of their power promised to become both irreversible and uncontrollable.[... ]

[...]There are two ways to avoid this calamity. One is to water very sparingly, so that the water in the shallow capillaries does not connect with the groundwater. Another possibility is the so-called flushing cycle, whereby you cause a regular flooding that carries the constantly upwelling salt away to the sea or some other terminal drain. This, however, can only be done in the valleys of large rivers that flood regularly – it is that spring flood that washes away the salt accumulated over the previous year. This is precisely what happens, for example, in Khand, and it was precisely that irrigation model that the inexperienced Mordor engineers have copied in a sincere belief that the quality of irrigation is determined by the number of cubic furlongs of earth moved.
But it is impossible to establish a flushing cycle in the closed basin of Mordor, since there are no rivers flowing through it, and the only terminal drain is the Sea of Núrnen – the very same Núrnen whose tributaries got diverted to irrigate far-flung fields. The negligible elevation difference meant that there was no way to create anything like a flood in those channels, so there was nothing to flush the salt and nowhere to flush it. After a few years of bumper crops the inevitable happened – huge tracts of land were rapidly salted, and all attempts to establish drainage failed due to high groundwater levels. The end result was an enormous waste of resources and massive damage to the country’s economy and ecology. The Umbarian system of minimal irrigation would have suited Mordor just fine (and been a lot cheaper to boot), but this opportunity had been irretrievably lost now. The masterminds of the irrigation project and its executives were sentenced to twenty-five years in lead mines, but, predictably, that did not help anyone.
This event had been a major setback, but still not a catastrophe. By that time Mordor was deservedly being called the World’s Smithy, and it could trade its manufactured goods for any amounts of food from Khand and Umbar. Caravans of traders went back and forth through the Ithilien crossroads day and night, and there were more and more voices in Barad-Dur saying that the country has had enough tinkering with agriculture, which was nothing but a net loss anyway, and the way to go was to develop what nobody else had – namely, metallurgy and chemistry. Indeed, the industrial revolution was well underway: steam engines toiled away in mines and factories, while the early aeronautic successes and experiments with electricity were the talk of the educated classes. A universal literacy law had just been passed, and His Majesty Sauron the VIII has declared at a session of parliament (with his usual ton-of-bricks humor) that he intended to equate truancy and treason. The excellent work of an experienced diplomatic corps and a powerful intelligence apparatus permitted a drastic reduction of the professional army, so that it was not a major burden on the economy.
But it was at that time that the words that changed the entire history of Middle Earth were said; strangely, they repeated almost exactly a prophetic utterance made in another World regarding a very different country: “A state that is unable to feed itself and is dependent on food imports cannot be considered a formidable foe.”[...]


[...]
He came to in a large clearing with a good view of the valley of the Great River. His hands were tied behind his back, his Mordorian uniform was all singed tatters, and the entire left side of his body was one large burn – the device worked, praise Aulë! Belatedly he saw an Elf squatting to the left of him, on the side of the eye almost covered with dried lymph. The Elf was disgustedly wiping his flask with a rag – apparently, he had just been pouring Elvish wine down the prisoner’s throat.
“You awake?” the Elf inquired in a melodious voice.
“Mordor and the Eye!” Wolverine responded automatically (imagine dying as an Orc! Well, them’s the breaks…)
“Quit pretending, dear ally!” The Firstborn was smiling, but his eyes burned with such hatred that his vertical cat’s pupils narrowed into tiny slits. “You are going to tell us everything about those strange games of His Majesty Elessar Elfstone, aren’t you, beastie? There shouldn’t be any secrets between allies.”
“Mordor… and… the Eye…” The lieutenant’s voice was still even, although Manwe only knew the effort it took: the Elf had casually dropped his hand to the prisoner’s broken ankle and…
“Sir Engold, look! What’s that?!”
At the cry of his comrades the Elf turned around and stared, frozen, at something resembling a colossal dandelion swiftly grow to the sky beyond the Anduin, right where Caras Galadhon ought to be – a thin blinding-white stalk crowned with a bright-red bulbous ‘flower.’ Almighty Eru, if this thing is indeed in Galadhon, how huge must it be? What Galadhon? There’s probably not even ashes left there…[...]

They were always orcs, but the West made the great mistake of thinking it was communism that made them so, but we all know it was just their nature that did it. The slaughter of the Chechens, the invasion of Georgia and the two invasions of Ukraine have made it clear to the world the Russian orcs cannot be redeemed and must be isolated from the rest of the world for the foreseeable future.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Actually, Putins words about problems of grain export is nothing but a cover to his program of significant increasing of the State's food reserves and prevention of the food inflation. Now, bread and pork in Russia are cheaper than year ago. Their goal is to be able to survive three years without harvest (while they do not believe in the conception of "Nuclear Winter", the climate changes might be unpredictable in the case of quite possible all-out nuclear war (especially with those "gigaton class torpedoes").

On your planet, perhaps, but here on Earth, Grain and fertilizer exports to Africa and the ME form the foundation of Russia's relationships to those countries.

 

[Silver Cat]

On your planet, perhaps, but here on Earth, Grain and fertilizer exports to Africa and the ME form the foundation of Russia's relationships to those countries.

That's why they say, that it's not their bad will, it's result of the western aggression and santcions. You know, hungry people can be quite understanding.

 

[Silver Cat]

They were always orcs, but the West made the great mistake of thinking it was communism that made them so, but we all know it was just their nature that did it. The slaughter of the Chechens, the invasion of Georgia and the two invasions of Ukraine have made it clear to the world the Russian orcs cannot be redeemed and must be isolated from the rest of the world for the foreseeable future.

In fact, they are not Orcs. They are human beings fighting for survival and wealth. But yes, some incompetent Western propagandists really try to depict them this way. And if you say them something like: "You all are evil monsters, and all of you should be killed!" they, of course, will prefer to try their chances in all-out nuclear war to kill you first.

 

[toomuchtime_]

That's why they say, that it's not their bad will, it's result of the western aggression and santcions. You know, hungry people can be quite understanding.

Understanding of what? These countries value relations with Russia because of what Russia used to be able to do for them, and now that Russia can no longer help them, they have no use for Russia. Whether it's bad will or poor judgement that got Russia to a place where it can't help them will make no difference. Because of this war, Russia is all alone in the world now, and that will not change in the foreseeable future.

 

[Silver Cat]

Understanding of what? These countries value relations with Russia because of what Russia used to be able to do for them, and now that Russia can no longer help them, they have no use for Russia. Whether it's bad will or poor judgement that got Russia to a place where it can't help them will make no difference. Because of this war, Russia is all alone in the world now, and that will not change in the foreseeable future.

Understanding for arguments like, say: "The evil Europeans want you cobalt for no pay, and want you dying from starvation. But if you don't sell them your cobalt (and sell it to China only for good money), we'll find the opportunity to deliver you some food. Of course, it will be necessary to build few Wagner bases there to improve your safety".

 

[toomuchtime_]

In fact, they are not Orcs. They are human beings fighting for survival and wealth. But yes, some incompetent Western propagandists really try to depict them this way. And if you say them something like: "You all are evil monsters, and all of you should be killed!" they, of course, will prefer to try their chances in all-out nuclear war to kill you first.

Russia was in no danger and Putin knowingly sacrificed Russia's opportunity to achieve real wealth for the first time in its history by invading Ukraine.

Under the USSR, Russians were taught their best possible lives were achievable under communism, and that when they invaded another country they were bringing the blessings of communism to that country, and now Putin has replaced the faith in communism with a body of lies about ethnic Russians or Russian speakers being discriminated against and even tortured and murdered to try to motivate the Russian people and Russian troops with pure hate to invade and destroy other countries and people. The are true orcs today.

 

[ESay]

And I will repeat it again too: Neither the Russian Federation nor Putin went for a land grab or projected unprovoked military aggression towards any neighbor from 1990 to 2014.
Putin took his chance to take Crimea - before Ukraine would become a NATO member - he also calculated right, that this would inadvertently impact Ukraine's accession to NATO.

I am not saying that Putin was right to take back Crimea - that would be the UN's decision, or respectively enforcing a free peoples referendum.

Putin then took advantage of the separatist movement in Donbas and Luhansk - again calculating correctly - that this would inadvertently impact Ukraine's accession to NATO.

Upon the election with the Goebbels scholar securing the presidency and both sides disrespecting the previous Minsk I and II accords, and an expansionist US democrat holding the US presidency, Putin realized that the imminent NATO membership was lurking just around the corner. So he took a gamble in regards to initiating a political coup via a military attack - which obviously failed. The strength of his military force clearly (at least to me) demonstrates that Putin never intended to occupy Ukraine as a whole - but to simply get a pro-Russian government installed in Kiev - whilst assuring a land link between Russia and Crimea. That in turn would hinder Ukraine's and NATO's unification ambitions.

It is ONLY and was always ONLY about NATO's relentless Eastward expansion and commitment towards relentless wars since 1990. NATO since 1990 had clearly lost it's defensive character and ideals - and was fully operating in regards to control/occupy further territories aka countries. In fact the most powerful and aggressive military/political alliance since WWII until today.

Latest since 1989 the formula is: NATO against the rest of the World or if you prefer, NATO controlling and dictating the World what to do.
Do you actually realize - as much as I hate to say it, that aside from Jimmy Carter, Trump was the only US president since WWII - who did not emphasize onto using NATO military projection onto the world.

Since you continue to refute these obvious facts - I agree with you that a further discussion wouldn't make sense.

Yes, we see these facts differently and from the opposite points of view. Russia didn't take part in land grabs since 1990s? Okay, the didn't. They simply put their 'peacekeepers' in different places - Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia; military base in Tajikistan; a naval base in Sevastopol (from where they were never going to go); later on they opened a base in Kyrgyzstan. All that was justified by historical reasons, security concerns, protection of Russian speakers' rights (that is my favourite reasoning) etc. Not military expansion, of course not.

The European Union and NATO are the best things that happened to Europe in generations. The will of East Europeans to join these unions was wholly understandable, natural and inevitable.

 

[Kruska]

Yes, we see these facts differently and from the opposite points of view. Russia didn't take part in land grabs since 1990s? Okay, the didn't. They simply put their 'peacekeepers' in different places - Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia; military base in Tajikistan; a naval base in Sevastopol (from where they were never going to go); later on they opened a base in Kyrgyzstan. All that was justified by historical reasons, security concerns, protection of Russian speakers' rights (that is my favourite reasoning) etc. Not military expansion, of course not.

Fact is since 1990 - NATO has undertaken numerous wars to topple governments and thereby destroyed entire countries. Russia till Ukraine - none. China - none

The European Union and NATO are the best things that happened to Europe in generations. The will of East Europeans to join these unions was wholly understandable, natural and inevitable.

Any Eastern European will say that - since all they hope to gain is $$$$, therefore they also ALL welcome China's silk-road initiative.

 

[Litwin]

Russians are buying much more property in China

very good, you ASIATIC HORDESMEN You belong to Asia , and we ´ll send all of you back to Asia

ps

 

[ESay]

Fact is since 1990 - NATO has undertaken numerous wars to topple governments and thereby destroyed entire countries. Russia till Ukraine - none. China - none

Cool. But China and Russia shouldn't have a say what unions and blocks are suitable for their neighbors.

Any Eastern European will say that - since all they hope to gain is $$$$, therefore they also ALL welcome China's silk-road initiative

Yes, you like your Russian buddies always like to narrow everything to money.

About the Chinese initiative, I would like to remind you that a number of West European countries voiced their interest too. Though, I agree that all China's initiatives should be taken with a great deal of caution. The West should lower its dependency on China, not increase it.

 

[Litwin]

Russians

 

[Kruska]

Cool. But China and Russia shouldn't have a say what unions and blocks are suitable for their neighbors.

It ain't just "cool" - it's fantastic and assuring to know that there are two superpowers - that do not constantly wreak havoc and destruction onto other countries with their military.

Every single country has it's own say in regards to its own national security - if a neighbor is deemed to be a national security threat, especially due to joining up with a proven warmongering alliance - then any country will definitely take the appropriate steps. You honestly believe that e.g. India would tolerate Pakistan to be a NATO member?

Yes, you like your Russian buddies always like to narrow everything to money.

I know you can't face nor acquit to facts = money is the essential driving force behind every single conflict in human mankind. And those who don't have money - e.g. Eastern European countries - place an even higher ranking towards $$$, then anything else - so spare me that "democracy" liberating "autocracy" bullshit.

About the Chinese initiative, I would like to remind you that a number of West European countries voiced their interest too. Though, I agree that all China's initiatives should be taken with a great deal of caution. The West should lower its dependency on China, not increase it.

Yup - that is what the USA is telling them all the time - you must stay dependent on a US controlled economy and money - and we forbid you go for other countries economy and money - if not, we will fuck you up with sanctions, and/or will bring war on you - and that is obviously your ideal and ideology too. Not mine and will never be.

 

[JimH52]

The Russians may not think they are orcs anymore, but the rest of the world has concluded they still are, and while you may be happy that Russia is no longer part of the civilized world, Putin is alternately raging and whining that Russia cannot sell its grain or fertilizer because banks, including Chinese banks, will not facilitate the sales and the shipments cannot be insured. Clearly, Russia will not have commercial access to most of the world until many years, perhaps generations, after it withdraws from Ukraine.

Poootin underestimated the resolve of NATO. Had trump been president, he would have been right. Trump would have given him Ukraine, wrapped in a pink bow.

 

[ESay]

Every single country has it's own say in regards to its own national security - if a neighbor is deemed to be a national security threat, especially due to joining up with a proven warmongering alliance - then any country will definitely take the appropriate steps. You honestly believe that e.g. India would tolerate Pakistan to be a NATO member

Have you ever seen me here talking about justice or injustice of this war or similar things? There are actions and there are reactions. That always was and always will be.

I know you can't face nor acquit to facts = money is the essential driving force behind every single conflict in human mankind. And those who don't have money - e.g. Eastern European countries - place an even higher ranking towards $$$, then anything else - so spare me that "democracy" liberating "autocracy" bullshit

Of course money have huge role in every person's life, societies, countries etc. But okay, I will spare you from that bullshit. I can't make you look on things without a simpleton prism.

Yup - that is what the USA is telling them all the time - you must stay dependent on a US controlled economy and money - and we forbid you go for other countries economy and money - if not, we will fuck you up with sanctions, and/or will bring war on you - and that is obviously your ideal and ideology too. Not mine and will never be

Sorry, dude, but if there will be a need to choose between the Big Two, I will choose the US on every day of a week.

 

[Silver Cat]

Russia was in no danger and Putin knowingly sacrificed Russia's opportunity to achieve real wealth for the first time in its history by invading Ukraine.

The Russians didn't see any reason to believe in peaceful intentions of NATO.

Under the USSR, Russians were taught their best possible lives were achievable under communism, and that when they invaded another country they were bringing the blessings of communism to that country, and now Putin has replaced the faith in communism with a body of lies about ethnic Russians or Russian speakers being discriminated against and even tortured and murdered to try to motivate the Russian people and Russian troops with pure hate to invade and destroy other countries and people. The are true orcs today.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You just can't discriminate, abuse and kill Russians, and simultaneously speak about your peaceful intentions. From the Russian point of view, NATO is paying Ukraine for killing Russians.

 

[Kruska]

Have you ever seen me here talking about justice or injustice of this war or similar things? There are actions and there are reactions. That always was and always will be.

Exactly - FACTS - that you continuously refuse to accept or acknowledge

Of course money have huge role in every person's life, societies, countries etc. But okay, I will spare you from that bullshit. I can't make you look on things without a simpleton prism.

Bringing in a term like "simpleton prism" - again just proves that you can't acquit towards facts - even those that you confirm within your own statement

Sorry, dude, but if there will be a need to choose between the Big Two, I will choose the US on every day of a week.

No need to apologize - it's obvious to anyone that you side and share the ideology of the worlds greatest warmonger, latest since WWII.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Russians didn't see any reason to believe in peaceful intentions of NATO.


Anyway, it doesn't matter. You just can't discriminate, abuse and kill Russians, and simultaneously speak about your peaceful intentions. From the Russian point of view, NATO is paying Ukraine for killing Russians.

Only a very stupid Russian wouldn't have seen that NATO posed no threat to Russia's security and there was no discrimination against ethnic Russians or Russian speakers, whatever the flavor of the day for that lie is. The whole world has rejected these lies, so how stupid do you have to be to still tout them.