Trying to understand the fundies...

[amrchaos]

Why do you think the fundies in such a huff about these so called "scientific myths" such as the Big Bang and Evolution?

On the surface, it seems that these "myths" call into question the integrity of the Bible and even the existance of God.

But in actuality, does it not really call into the accuracy of the authors account, which, by its style, we can tell was not written by God? In other words, whose integrity are the fundamentalists trying to protect?

There is also some other questions concerning the fundamentalist position and its basis I like to add and hopefully this thread will touch upon them as well.


For instance, must the OT be literal truth in order for Judaism or Christianity to be a viable religion(that is--practical to the practitioner) ?

I am pretty sure that I can argue that no holy text need to be literal or true in order to be useful in the practice of a religion. In fact, a religion only needs to be viable--truthiness of the text is optional.

Therefore the argument that the Bible is not literal truth will not yield much for the anti-religionists. Except it does undermine the "authority" of the Bible. Of course, this "authority" is not on how to live this life as suggested in either religion, but on why the Bible should be trusted and obeyed word for word.


In short, I guess the underlining question is :"What exactly is religion anyway?" Especially to the fundamentalists. I was under the impression that religion is really about living this life. But there seems to exist a struggle of power, authority and purpose related in the pro/anti science argument that doesn't really pertain to my idea of religion itself.

 

[shart_attack]

Maybe an equally important question to ask is, "Why do feckless, unimaginative, boring hacks who can't write their ways out of a fourth-grade book fair continually troll fundamentalist Christians on Internet message boards?"

 

[amrchaos]

Maybe an equally important question to ask is, "Why do feckless, unimaginative, boring hacks who can't write their ways out of a fourth-grade book fair continually troll fundamentalist Christians on Internet message boards?"

So are you saying that my thread is trolling?

I take it that you think I meant to insult fundamentalists in some way. If so, then let me apologize for that which I may have construed.

But that does not mean I will retract the questions. In fact, I may need to ask more questions such "What is the Bible to the fundamentalists?" because something is different between the fundamentalist take on it versus someone of who thinks of it as an allegorical accounting of the God of Israel and his association with the Hebrews.

 

[shart_attack]

Maybe an equally important question to ask is, "Why do feckless, unimaginative, boring hacks who can't write their ways out of a fourth-grade book fair continually troll fundamentalist Christians on Internet message boards?"

So are you saying that my thread is trolling?

I take it that you think I meant to insult fundamentalists in some way. If so, then let me apologize for that which I may have construed.

That doesn't really make a lot of sense, the way you just worded that. Maybe you're not an American or something, so I won't fault you for it.

We Christians are just used to people trolling us on message boards and in the halls of academia.

And for most of us, all the trolling is doing is just strengthening our resolve.

I will not parlay the deepest underpinnings of my Faith on protracted arguing with those who seek to tear it apart for their own petty emotive pittances.

But that does not mean I will retract the questions. In fact, I may need to ask more questions such "What is the Bible to the fundamentalists?" because something is different between the fundamentalist take on it versus someone of who thinks of it as an allegorical accounting of the God of Israel and his association with the Hebrews.

Maybe you should try reading more than merely the Biblical account of The Creation and the Deluge of Noah's day and find out for yourself.

Nobody has ever been harmed by reading a religious text, and only the lazy among us ask questions which can easily appear to be trolling and which could be answered in and of themselves if only the interrogator(s) would dare to acquaint themselves more deeply with the material in question.

 

[Hollie]

Maybe an equally important question to ask is, "Why do feckless, unimaginative, boring hacks who can't write their ways out of a fourth-grade book fair continually troll fundamentalist Christians on Internet message boards?"

So are you saying that my thread is trolling?

I take it that you think I meant to insult fundamentalists in some way. If so, then let me apologize for that which I may have construed.

That doesn't really make a lot of sense, the way you just worded that. Maybe you're not an American or something, so I won't fault you for it.

We Christians are just used to people trolling us on message boards and in the halls of academia.

And for most of us, all the trolling is doing is just strengthening our resolve.

I will not parlay the deepest underpinnings of my Faith on protracted arguing with those who seek to tear it apart for their own petty emotive pittances.

But that does not mean I will retract the questions. In fact, I may need to ask more questions such "What is the Bible to the fundamentalists?" because something is different between the fundamentalist take on it versus someone of who thinks of it as an allegorical accounting of the God of Israel and his association with the Hebrews.

Maybe you should try reading more than merely the Biblical account of The Creation and the Deluge of Noah's day and find out for yourself.

Nobody has ever been harmed by reading a religious text, and only the lazy among us ask questions which can easily appear to be trolling and which could be answered in and of themselves if only the interrogator(s) would dare to acquaint themselves more deeply with the material in question.

Problems with a Global Flood 2nd edition


Flood Stories from Around the World

 

[Hollie]

Why do you think the fundies in such a huff about these so called "scientific myths" such as the Big Bang and Evolution?

On the surface, it seems that these "myths" call into question the integrity of the Bible and even the existance of God.

But in actuality, does it not really call into the accuracy of the authors account, which, by its style, we can tell was not written by God? In other words, whose integrity are the fundamentalists trying to protect?

There is also some other questions concerning the fundamentalist position and its basis I like to add and hopefully this thread will touch upon them as well.


For instance, must the OT be literal truth in order for Judaism or Christianity to be a viable religion(that is--practical to the practitioner) ?

I am pretty sure that I can argue that no holy text need to be literal or true in order to be useful in the practice of a religion. In fact, a religion only needs to be viable--truthiness of the text is optional.

Therefore the argument that the Bible is not literal truth will not yield much for the anti-religionists. Except it does undermine the "authority" of the Bible. Of course, this "authority" is not on how to live this life as suggested in either religion, but on why the Bible should be trusted and obeyed word for word.


In short, I guess the underlining question is :"What exactly is religion anyway?" Especially to the fundamentalists. I was under the impression that religion is really about living this life. But there seems to exist a struggle of power, authority and purpose related in the pro/anti science argument that doesn't really pertain to my idea of religion itself.

Kudos. Great idea for a thread topic.

I do not fear the “judgment of god” because, welll, I don't believe in any of the gods. By the actions of the gods inthe bibles, (the stolen OT, especially,) I don't believe the gods to be just. This is also why I do not believe in Christianity. Because a just god is inconsistent with the Christian salvation scheme.

And if Christianity is true we only have about a 20-80 chance anyway, probably less. The inability of the gods to deliver either a revelation or messengers that were competent enough to convince more than that percentage of humanity that the message of christianity is true means that most of us are destined for hell anyway. But of course, that was the gawds' plan in the first place, since nothing happens except by his will.
There is no “true” religious faith capable of excluding members of any other faith from either the perils or benefits of existence. I've always found it arrogant and time-wasting that competing religions with competing gawds will use threats and intimidation as a means to enfore their particular dogma.

The reason why certain "fire and brimstone" type of Christians refuse to accept scientific findings is because they need a literal Adam and Eve to support their notion that all human beings are born totally depraved with Original Sin, and therefore in need of Salvation through Christ-- in fact, that was the whole reason for the crucifixion. If you replace Adam and Eve with Homo Erectus, the idea of the Fall of Man and Original Sin is a little hard to reconcile.

What is still firmly unaddressed by christians is the fact that (per genesis tale), god lied and satan told the truth. I understand these things are devastating to the notion of an alleged “loving god” but ignoring them does not make them go away.

The problem with all of this is that given the story, man did not commit the first sin-- Lucifer did, and thus became Satan. Everyone prefers to forget that before man was created, there had to be a conflict that allowed Lucifer to become the tempter in the test God offers to his unenlightened creations, Adam and Eve. Clearly, God has created evil, and allowed it to flourish even before Man is created. The issue of "less than perfection" has already been completely established and is extant in the universe before Man is culled from dust.

 

[amrchaos]

Maybe an equally important question to ask is, "Why do feckless, unimaginative, boring hacks who can't write their ways out of a fourth-grade book fair continually troll fundamentalist Christians on Internet message boards?"

So are you saying that my thread is trolling?

I take it that you think I meant to insult fundamentalists in some way. If so, then let me apologize for that which I may have construed.

That doesn't really make a lot of sense, the way you just worded that. Maybe you're not an American or something, so I won't fault you for it.

We Christians are just used to people trolling us on message boards and in the halls of academia.

And for most of us, all the trolling is doing is just strengthening our resolve.

I will not parlay the deepest underpinnings of my Faith on protracted arguing with those who seek to tear it apart for their own petty emotive pittances.

But that does not mean I will retract the questions. In fact, I may need to ask more questions such "What is the Bible to the fundamentalists?" because something is different between the fundamentalist take on it versus someone of who thinks of it as an allegorical accounting of the God of Israel and his association with the Hebrews.

Maybe you should try reading more than merely the Biblical account of The Creation and the Deluge of Noah's day and find out for yourself.

Nobody has ever been harmed by reading a religious text, and only the lazy among us ask questions which can easily appear to be trolling and which could be answered in and of themselves if only the interrogator(s) would dare to acquaint themselves more deeply with the material in question.

Since you suggest it,

What extra material should I read besides the Biblical account in order to understand the fundamentalists position?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

"Trying to understand fundies"

Don't try too hard. That's like saying you're trying to understand a crazy person. If you succeed, at best you'll have driven yourself crazy in the attempt that now, being crazy too, they suddenly make sense.