Truth needs no lies nor smokescreen.

[HaShev]

Why do we always hear crickets when we mention a rebuttle to questionable and fallacious claims, and issues that are unpopular but true?
We get either silence or we get a complete dance around the subject trying to misdirect readers away from the giant stumbling block.
How does that help them resolve their issues or figure out what is true from what is programed into their minds
through mistakes or deceptions? Don't they want to get to truth, don't they seek knowledge of how things are and seek betterment of themselves and mankind?
What kind of ego seeks to bury his head in the sand rather then face his or her unpopular truths?
What kind of truth needs to defend itself with lies and smokescreen techniques or discrediting and attacking
the messenger rather then refuting the message?
What kind of purpose does flaming and flooding unpopular discussions serve in trying to hide the subjects and
discussions from people when you think it's false, rather then do a rebuttle using knowledge and truth??
Isn't it evidence that you got nothing to defend yourself with thus are protecting a lie through more lies
and deceptive practices?
What kind of truth needs to be forced by violence, torture, and murder?
No truth needs thoses things, only a lie does.

 

[irosie91]

shev----do not be offensive-----none of the stuff that happened
in the name of Jesus was his fault. He was the Governor
Chris Christie of his time. (chris's mom knew what she
was doing when she named him "chris Christie")

 

[HaShev]

Notice I nevet disrespect the figures used for the Jesus image, only the created idol.
Well maybe with the exception of Yeshu of 100bc because he was liken to a Benny Hinn sorcery maggic
show and teaching rediculous stuff that was harmful.
Who doesn't respect Yehuda the Galilean tax revolter for standing up to Rome? And Theudas was like Rabbi Schneerson, not responsible for his students becoming Meshugsnah followers and mistaking what he taught.

 

[irosie91]

Notice I nevet disrespect the figures used for the Jesus image, only the created idol.
Well maybe with the exception of Yeshu of 100bc because he was liken to a Benny Hinn sorcery maggic
show and teaching rediculous stuff that was harmful.
Who doesn't respect Yehuda the Galilean tax revolter for standing up to Rome? And Theudas was like Rabbi Schneerson, not responsible for his students becoming Meshugsnah followers and mistaking what he taught.

you are way over my head I don't know all this history.
I read the NT-----to me jesus was a kinda typical
personality of his time and place----innocent victim
of an elaborate legend. -----yes---like
Rabbi Schneerson------jews never stopped DOING
IT. Baal Shem Tov did magic too.

 

[Dajjal]

The truth is hard to find: You will find many liars with their own agendas in the search for truth, which is one reason why finding the real truth is so hard.

 

[HaShev]

Agreed.
Sometimes slants are to validate their own beliefs and other times it's profitable to sell more tickets, more books, or get more donations.
The way people lie about what the dead sea scrolls say or reveal is a oerfect example.
There's a huge difference between books on the scroll by non partison professors and those written by Christians with an agenda. Usually that agenda is to place Jesus into everywhere he was not to validate their faith or it's to sell more books or both. Doesn't matter if they place him in stuff written about way earlier eras, the lie to keep the charade alive is like we use air to breath.

 

[Penelope]

Notice I nevet disrespect the figures used for the Jesus image, only the created idol.
Well maybe with the exception of Yeshu of 100bc because he was liken to a Benny Hinn sorcery maggic
show and teaching rediculous stuff that was harmful.
Who doesn't respect Yehuda the Galilean tax revolter for standing up to Rome? And Theudas was like Rabbi Schneerson, not responsible for his students becoming Meshugsnah followers and mistaking what he taught.

And there never was a Moses, he was not the first to be found floating in a basket.
Also you can write in a book "you are the chosen" but it doesn't make it so.
What gives whoever is living in Israel the right to be there, Britain and Britain is not God.

 

[HaShev]

Penelope, I believe we had this discussion before, so why repeat it?
Moses isn't venerated, no figure is, due to the fact people will tend to lift high their image instead of the lesson or influence we take away from the stories.
Look at the way The Christian and Muslim posters will claim their prophets the one and only end all teacher and think about how that shuts out good ideas and influences and philosophies and leads to affiliation pride and protectionism.
I Think you are confusing us with Christianity which needs Jesus to he real because it's based on the character and validity of the proclaimation of truth. In fact it requires Moses to be real and the other figures otherwise it's claims fall apart. Judaism does not need any of the figures to he real, because it does not change the Essence inspired nor importance of the law.
Gumby could have left us those laws and it would still be important and valid whether gumby was or not what is right and wrong never changes just our subjective views do which is why we define life and our deeds the way we do and record accounts and stories to progress from.
This is what sets us apart from mere naturalist and humanist we understand that nature MUST BE DEFINED and most finite source and power in life must be understood, otherwise we would never truly know if we were in line or opposition to our creation and our purpose within. Secularist believe in the same source and power (evolution) but Jews define that nsture to reflect, manifest, understand, snd no longer be subjective about
what's good-bad, right-wrong.

That being said there is evidence Moses existed and the genetic marker in Kohanim is proof of Aaron his brother.
The basket story could be borrowed but it can also be coincidental, passing stories down the line confusion, or a symbol of something being conveyed.
The fact you automatically jump to one conclusion means you are not able to he rational in your deductions.
Look at all possibilities and choose your words more carefully by saying "it seems" to be a borrowed tale.
But making comments that he didn't exist cause a story resembles a past one is irrational and dishonest.
Example: how many babies are left on a door stoop or dumpster? So by your irrational logic the later baby never existed because this unusual event matches a story of a baby years before it who was left in a basket on a stoop or dumpster.

 

[irosie91]

[

And there never was a Moses, he was not the first to be found floating in a basket.
Also you can write in a book "you are the chosen" but it doesn't make it so.
What gives whoever is living in Israel the right to be there, Britain and Britain is not God.

And Penelope is a silly bitch who tries to discuss books she never read. Whoever gave that disgusting cock sucking whore the right to inhale oxygen-----should be shot. She is not the first cocksucking whore stinking up the environment---------but unfortunately she EXISTS

 

[HaShev]

The chosen disscusion is a whole other topic that would only make sense if you understood the who, what, where how, and whys, and since you have no interest or understanding of it then it would be a waste to share.
Although the what where whys have been discussed in my former topic posts (second from the bottom)
Can Christians Ever Answer WHY Page 5 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
the who and why requires further understanding unless you know celtic lores on "the Michael's return to his inheritance" and understand the true meaning of "the return".
In other words you see chosen in a prideful proclamation and not it's innevibility due to the processes of how things are done.

 

[hobelim]

The truth is hard to find: You will find many liars with their own agendas in the search for truth, which is one reason why finding the real truth is so hard.

True, but it also depends on where you look; one cannot find the truth where none exists.

If searching for the truth in the OT and NT it is essential to the comprehension of truth to realize that the collective authors could not have made it any more obvious that the truth is hidden and buried in figurative language that requires a sober mind and rational intelligent thought to decipher that the superstitious are incapable of.

"And the light shines on in the darkness, but the darkness has not mastered it." John 1:5


"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again..." Matthew 13:44

"I will give you hidden treasures, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name." Isaiah 45:3


In the gospel of John there are exactly seven miracles of Jesus recorded or rather seven signs that God was with Jesus.

In the book of revelation there are exactly seven seals placed on scripture that prevent people from opening up the scrolls and seeing what is written inside, comprehending the truth.

The key to discovering the truth hidden in scripture, both OT and NT, is deciphering those seven miracles in the gospel of John which break the seven seals.

Do that and the truth will come to light and will be as plain to see as the midday sun and easy enough for even the least intelligent among us to understand.

 

[HaShev]

Hobe, that's a whole other subject between the poster refering to deciphering truth and you refering to deciphering symbolism and slang terms to understand the context of what the sages are writing.
What you are talking about needs understanding of that eras use of words and slang (done during the revolts so Rome wouldn't know they were the ones they talked about) or hidden symbolism intended to keep the message entact even through language barriers like transliteration errors, changes, mistakes, forgeries etc.
Also analogies are used because we learn better through association of emulations/similarities to processes familiar to us.
Examples would be like someone in the early 90's using the imagery of our use of ink jet printers to say in the future we will print our image on cakes and eventually print parts of our bodies for replacement repairs.
In the 90's you'd have no clue why someone would use this resemblance analogy until it's time confectionary printers and 3d printers were devised in that vision of the future. So sometimes truth or understanding doesn't come to focus till we catch up to the processes and or fulfillment of how the sages saw resemblances to know how things could and should work.
If anyone saw those wax figurine printers like the one in Miami during the early 70's that printed 3d wax figures of Aligators and dolphins, they would have been able to forsee future 3d printers we see today.
This concept of foreseeing future resemblances is why they write our history down, our acts, behavior, dirty laundry and all.
4Q418 Frag. 77 2[ Understand or Seek? ] the secret of the way things are, and learn the nature of man and gaze at the faculties [ and workings or realities for] 3[ What ] has made him. Then you will understand the nature of mortal man and the weight of [ . . . ] 4his spirit, and learn the secret of the way things are, the weight of eras and the measure of [..TIME or works?..]
</center><BR><center>

4Q418 Frag. 123 Col. 2 1[ . . . ] 7when years begin and when eras end [ . . . ] 3everything that has happened in it, why it was and what will be in [ . . . ] 4His era that He revealed to the ears of those who understand the secret of the way things are [ . . . ] 3you are one who understands, when you observe all these things [ . . . ] 6by its hand is the weighing of your deeds with the era [ . . . ]
4Q418 Frag. 123 Col. 2 1[ . . . ] 7Whatever He leaves with you, guard carefully [ . . . ] The sage asserts that his teaching comes from God.
</center><BR>
<center> "Sapiential Work" (4Q413)</center><center>
"....I will teach you (Knowledge)and wisdom. And understand the ways of man and the works of Sons of Man......"
4Q4L7 Frag. 2 (+ 4Q418) Col. 1 1[ . . . ] you are one who understands [ . . . ] 2[ . . . ] the wonderful secrets [ . . . fearful things you will master . . . ] 3[ . . . **why things are and how they are*** . . . ] 4[ . . . why] 5[things are and why they continue to be ] 6[ . . . through Night meditate on the secret] of why things are and investigate it at all times, and then you will know truth and evil, wisdom 7[and falsehood . . . Consider the wicked in al1 their ways, with all their punishments throughout the world eras and the eternal punishment 8and then you will know the difference between good [and evil] deeds, for the God of knowledge is the confidant of Truth, and in the secret of the way things are 9He has made plain its basis [ . . . ] what is its nature and the governing principle of its deeds 10for every [ . . . ] He kas made plain to the mind of every [man] how to live by 11the nature of His understanding; and He has made plain [ . . . ] and by the faculty of understanding [He revealed] the enigmas of His purpose with blameless conduct [in all] His deeds. Inquire into these things at all times, give careful thought to al1 13their effects, and then you will know [eternal] glory with His wonderful secrets and His mighty deeds.
4Q413 Frag. 1 1Discipline [and insight] and wisdom I shal1 teach you. Now consider the ways of humanity and the activities of 2the human race. [ . . . ] a man. He enlarged his share in the knowledge of God's truth, and to the degree that that man loathes 3everything evil, [his judgment] shall not be affected by what his ears hear and what his eyes see.

 

[hobelim]

Hobe, that's a whole other subject between the poster refering to deciphering truth and you refering to deciphering symbolism and slang terms to understand the context of what the sages are writing.

No. There is no difference between deciphering truth and deciphering symbolisms and figurative language to comprehend the hidden meaning of the words and subjects in order to grasp the truth conveyed .

The poster has previously expressed his long and arduous journey through many religions in his search for truth. Deciphering the language in both the OT and NT is key to understanding the meaning of the words and subjects and the hidden truths conveyed by the sages through figurative language, symbolisms and well known and widely used forms of literary expression; metaphors, allegories, similes, hyperbole, homonyms, analogies, sarcasm, etc..

How can a person who seeks truth find the truth if the do not understand the language of the sages who were dedicated to a love of God and truth?

A talking serpent in the very first book of the bible that is condemned by God to crawl on its belly and eat dust for the rest of its life should have been a dead giveaway that there is hidden teaching or moral to the story as there is in any fable or fairy tale to anyone with a second grade education who ever read the story of the three little pigs.

By the time a person is 12 they should have noticed that the prohibition against eating the flesh of anything that crawls on its belly is not a law about what one should or shouldn't make for dinner.

That so many otherwise dedicated and intelligent people searching for the truth, believers and unbelievers alike, including those who claim to already have hold of the truth, believers and unbelievers alike, have failed to understand this simple truth for so many thousands of years is astonishing to me and presents irrefutable evidence that God alone reigns over the minds of men and either grants or denies comprehension.

 

[theword]

Why do we always hear crickets when we mention a rebuttle to questionable and fallacious claims, and issues that are unpopular but true?
We get either silence or we get a complete dance around the subject trying to misdirect readers away from the giant stumbling block.
How does that help them resolve their issues or figure out what is true from what is programed into their minds
through mistakes or deceptions? Don't they want to get to truth, don't they seek knowledge of how things are and seek betterment of themselves and mankind?
What kind of ego seeks to bury his head in the sand rather then face his or her unpopular truths?
What kind of truth needs to defend itself with lies and smokescreen techniques or discrediting and attacking
the messenger rather then refuting the message?
What kind of purpose does flaming and flooding unpopular discussions serve in trying to hide the subjects and
discussions from people when you think it's false, rather then do a rebuttle using knowledge and truth??
Isn't it evidence that you got nothing to defend yourself with thus are protecting a lie through more lies
and deceptive practices?
What kind of truth needs to be forced by violence, torture, and murder?

No man has the truth except for those who have received it and is guarded by the one who gave it.

Only those who have laid down their life for it, can see it.

Truth is not of this world but it exposes this world for what it is and leaves it naked and exposed for those who understand it.

Truth was never intended for those who aren't truthful. Lies are their nature.

Truth has the right to condemn those who don't have it.

Truth is the justice that mere man cannot conceive. The injustice man does, keeps him from it.

Life is chaotic to those who don't bear it, but is understood by those who do.

One can never know what truth really is until he has it. Then he will understand that its true.

Nobody can buy the truth because its not for sale. It is freely given to those who ask for it.

What you see is not always the truth because your eyes deceive you and your ears don't hear.

Truth is the righteousness that excludes men. Not to be seen until they are righteous.

Truth is more precious than gold, and gold is more precious than silver. A miner of truth will tell you that.

Give a man the truth and he will know your heart but don't trust a man without it.

Truth wasn't made for man's eyes because he is blind. Without his blindness he will see the truth.

Truth is not what you think it is, it's what you know it is.

Truth can't be defined in man's laws, because there's no truth in man.

Truth is freedom for those who lay down and die. Then they can live with the truth.

Truth avoids those who look for it but when it finds you, you will no longer look for it.

Give a man the truth and it will no longer be true.

 

[Dajjal]

I went to a philosophy class and I said "there must be a truth" but a sea of faces turned to me and said "no, there is no truth": But surely, if there is no truth, then that is the truth.

For example, either there is a God or there is not. One of these has to be true doesn't it? Or am I too simple?

 

[hobelim]

I went to a philosophy class and I said "there must be a truth" but a sea of faces turned to me and said "no, there is no truth": But surely, if there is no truth, then that is the truth.

For example, either there is a God or there is not. One of these has to be true doesn't it? Or am I too simple?

You are right.

 

[theword]

I went to a philosophy class and I said "there must be a truth" but a sea of faces turned to me and said "no, there is no truth": But surely, if there is no truth, then that is the truth.

For example, either there is a God or there is not. One of these has to be true doesn't it? Or am I too simple?

If you perceive the truth to be something other than what we observe in this world, then you're closer to the truth than most people are. However, no man can find truth unless it's given to him by our Creator who calls Himself the Truth.

 

[HaShev]

Dan 10:21
That's all I'm saying.

 

[hobelim]

I went to a philosophy class and I said "there must be a truth" but a sea of faces turned to me and said "no, there is no truth": But surely, if there is no truth, then that is the truth.

It follows then that the truth can never be that there is no truth.

 

[theword]

I went to a philosophy class and I said "there must be a truth" but a sea of faces turned to me and said "no, there is no truth": But surely, if there is no truth, then that is the truth.

It follows then that the truth can never be that there is no truth.

Truth is what our Creator calls Himself and His thoughts where His creation was born ( created ).