Thought Crime Bill

Discussion in 'Politics' started by eots, Oct 26, 2007.

  1. eots
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    eots no fly list

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    "

    A new bill that recently passed the House and is headed for Senate approval has online activists worried that the vague definitions used for defining the Internet's contribution to radicalization of potential terrorists could lead to a government crackdown on talk radio, free speech and the 9/11 truth movement.

    The bill is H.R. 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 and passed Congress after a bipartisan vote on October 23rd.

    Ostensibly, the bill targets United States citizens because of its constant reference to basic Constitutional protections, but this has led some to fear that it is intended to shut down free speech on the Internet and stifle patriot and alternative talk radio networks.

    The bill defines "violent radicalization" as "The process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change."

    It further defines "homegrown terrorism" as "The use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

    The term "planned use" has caused concerns that "thinking about violence," ie thought crime, could be considered a terrorist act. But since to plan violence must involve some form of planning, whether that be drawing up bomb diagrams or making violent statements, the real threat seems to have been overlooked.

    A disturbing trend in recent months has been the proliferation of violent postings on messageboards of websites affiliated with peaceful 9/11 truth organizations.

    These messages are being posted by shameless trolls, COINTELPRO operatives and their stooges in a clear effort to discredit the 9/11 truth movement by making us all appear to be crazy nutcases who plan to commit terrorist acts.

    Establishment media hacks like Glenn Beck have then seized upon the idea to spew propaganda about how the next Timothy McVeigh will come from the truth movement, despite the fact that the leadership of the truth movement have practiced what they preach all along, by engaging in completely peaceful protests and other forms of non-violent educational activism.

    The bill's reference to how "The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens," is shocking.

    Remember, the bill is not aimed at "Al-Qaeda" websites or arabic forums that post alleged Bin Laden video tapes, it is aimed at American citizens using American based websites, like the very one you're reading now.
    The opportunity for the state to seize upon violent posts left by trolls and use them to entrap peaceful 9/11 truthers under the guise that they "promoted violence" should be a major concern for us all.

    Our message is simply this - don't even try it.

    We have preached a doctrine of absolute non-violence from the very beginning and we will continue to do so. Anyone who calls for violence in a messageboard post is either a Fed, a Mom's basement dwelling troll who spends their entire day attempting to debunk the 9/11 truth movement, or a completely deluded moron who is unrepresentative of the vast majority of the 9/11 truth movement.

    Those individuals who advocate violence should be sought out and investigated individually. Any plans to try and entrap prominent 9/11 truth movement figures using guilt by association should be abandoned immediately and we will ceaselessly emphasize this point until this current wave of propaganda subsides.
     
  2. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    So your worried your antics WILL get you tossed in jail? Does that mean you advocate violence?
     
  3. eots
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    everyone should be concerned if my antics would get me tossed into a jail regardless if they agree with me or not



    “"The liberties of our country, the freedoms of our civil Constitution are worth defending at all hazards; it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors. They purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation – enlightened as it is – if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of designing men." -Samuel Adams”


    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -
    -- Thomas Jefferson


    (I don't rap for dead presidents
    I'd rather see the president dead
    It's never been said but I set precedents)--[Eminem]


    “If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy”
    James Madison quotes (American 4th US
     
  4. doniston
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    doniston Member

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    Definite shades of 1984.
     
  5. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    So much for the First Amendment.
     
  6. RetiredGySgt
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    Wrong as usual. Depending on criteria to make it a crime it does not violate first amendment rights. The First amendment does not allow you to say anything you want, it has limits and the Congress and the Courts have agreed over the years that those limits exist.

    I suspect this is all about the nutters looking for a reason to whine and bitch. You can be sure the first time a person is charged under the law, if it is not clearly a danger the courts will be quick to curtail the law as well as all the watch dogs that LIVE to challenge the Government.

    The only people that need worry are those involved in plotting terror attacks, teaching terror and planning or advocating terror.
     
  7. eots
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    however with the patriot act almost anything can be labled terrorism




    SECTION 501 (Expatriation of Terrorists) expands the Bush administration’s “enemy combatant” definition to all American citizens who “may” have violated any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. (Section 802 is the new definition of domestic terrorism, and the definition is “any action that endangers human life that is a violation of any Federal or State law.”) Section 501 of the second Patriot Act directly connects to Section 125 of the same act. The Justice Department boldly claims that the incredibly broad Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act isn’t broad enough and that a new, unlimited definition of terrorism is needed.


    Under Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful activities can be grabbed off the street and thrown into a van never to be seen again. The Justice Department states that they can do this because the person “had inferred from conduct” that they were not a US citizen. Remember Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act states that any violation of Federal or State law can result in the “enemy combatant” terrorist designation.


    SECTION 201 of the second Patriot Act makes it a criminal act for any member of the government or any citizen to release any information concerning the incarceration or whereabouts of detainees. It also states that law enforcement does not even have to tell the press who they have arrested and they never have to release the names.


    SECTION 301 and 306 (Terrorist Identification Database) set up a national database of “suspected terrorists” and radically expand the database to include anyone associated with suspected terrorist groups and anyone involved in crimes or having supported any group designated as “terrorist.” These sections also set up a national DNA database for anyone on probation or who has been on probation for any crime, and orders State governments to collect the DNA for the Federal government.


    SECTION 312 gives immunity to law enforcement engaging in spying operations against the American people and would place substantial restrictions on court injunctions against Federal violations of civil rights across the board.

    SECTION 101 will designate individual terrorists as foreign powers and again strip them of all rights under the “enemy combatant” designation.

    SECTION 102 states clearly that any information gathering, regardless of whether or not those activities are illegal, can be considered to be clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power. This makes news gathering illegal.

    SECTION 103 allows the Federal government to use wartime martial law powers domestically and internationally without Congress declaring that a state of war exists.

    SECTION 106 is bone-chilling in its straightforwardness. It states that broad general warrants by the secret FSIA court (a panel of secret judges set up in a star chamber system that convenes in an undisclosed location) granted under the first Patriot Act are not good enough. It states that government agents must be given immunity for carrying out searches with no prior court approval. This section throws out the entire Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures.

    SECTION 109 allows secret star chamber courts to issue contemp charges against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate themselves or others. This sections annihilate the last vestiges of the Fifth Amendment.

    SECTION 110 restates that key police state clauses in the first Patriot Act were not sunsetted and removes the five year sunset clause from other subsections of the first Patriot Act. After all, the media has told us: “this is the New America. Get used to it. This is forever.”

    SECTION 111 expands the definition of the “enemy combatant” designation.

    SECTION 122 restates the government’s newly announced power of “surveillance without a court order.”

    SECTION 123 restates that the government no longer needs warrants and that the investigations can be a giant dragnet-style sweep described in press reports about the Total Information Awareness Network. One passage reads, “thus the focus of domestic surveillance may be less precise than that directed against more conventional types of crime.”

    *Note: Over and over again, in subsection after subsection, the second Patriot Act states that its new Soviet-type powers will be used to fight international terrorism, domestic terrorism and other types of crimes. Of course the government has already announced in Section 802 of the first USA Patriot act that any crime is considered domestic terrorism.

    SECTION 126 grants the government the right to mine the entire spectrum of public and private sector information from bank records to educational and medical records. This is the enacting law to allow ECHELON and the Total Information Awareness Network to totally break down any and all walls of privacy.

    The government states that they must look at everything to “determine” if individuals or groups might have a connection to terrorist groups. As you can now see, you are guilty until proven innocent.

    SECTION 127 allows the government to takeover coroners’ and medical examiners’ operations whenever they see fit. See how this is like Bill Clinton’s special medical examiner he had in Arkansas that ruled that people had committed suicide when their arms and legs had been cut off.

    SECTION 128 allows the Federal government to place gag orders on Federal and State Grand Juries and to take over the proceedings. It also disallows individuals or organizations to even try to quash a Federal subpoena. So now defending yourself will be a terrorist action.

    SECTION 129 destroys any remaining whistleblower protection for Federal agents.

    SECTION 202 allows corporations to keep secret their activities with toxic biological, chemical or radiological materials.

    SECTION 205 allows top Federal officials to keep all their financial dealings secret, and anyone investigating them can be considered a terrorist. This should be very useful for Dick Cheney to stop anyone investigating Haliburton.

    SECTION 303 sets up national DNA database of suspected terrorists. The database will also be used to “stop other unlawful activities.” It will share the information with state, local and foreign agencies for the same purposes.

    SECTION 311 federalizes your local police department in the area of information sharing.

    SECTION 313 provides liability protection for businesses, especially big businesses that spy on their customers for Homeland Security, violating their privacy agreements. It goes on to say that these are all preventative measures – has anyone seen Minority Report? This is the access hub for the Total Information Awareness Network.

    SECTION 321 authorizes foreign governments to spy on the American people and to share information with foreign governments.

    SECTION 322 removes Congress from the extradition process and allows officers of the Homeland Security complex to extradite American citizens anywhere they wish. It also allows Homeland Security to secretly take individuals out of foreign countries.

    SECTION 402 is titled “Providing Material Support to Terrorism.” The section reads that there is no requirement to show that the individual even had the intent to aid terrorists.

    SECTION 403 expands the definition of weapons of mass destruction to include any activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce.

    SECTION 404 makes it a crime for a terrorist or “other criminals” to use encryption in the commission of a crime.

    SECTION 408 creates “lifetime parole” (basically, slavery) for a whole host of crimes.

    SECTION 410 creates no statute of limitations for anyone that engages in terrorist actions or supports terrorists. Remember: any crime is now considered terrorism under the first Patriot Act.

    SECTION 411 expands crimes that are punishable by death. Again, they point to Section 802 of the first Patriot Act and state that any terrorist act or support of terrorist act can result in the death penalty.

    SECTION 421 increases penalties for terrorist financing. This section states that any type of financial activity connected to terrorism will result to time in prison and $10-50,000 fines per violation.

    SECTIONS 427 sets up asset forfeiture provisions for anyone engaging in terrorist activities.
     
  8. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    I didn't make any point about the First Amendment and its nature. I'm very well aware of what is is intended to do. I am also aware that it has taken a hell of a hammering in recent years and that this is just one more nail in its coffin.

    And this:
    that is the thinking of those who would aid and abet the loss of freedoms. "Red Dawn" was never going to happen, the taking of freedoms was always going to come from the inside. If you brought someone to the States in October 2007 from October 1987 they would be absolutely stunned at what has happened to your freedoms and to your society. The water is warming up, still time to hop out of the pot and turn the heat down but since it's gradual,
    you won't realise it until it's too late and you're boiled.

    Wrong, as usual :D
     
  9. RetiredGySgt
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    Seeing as how I was HERE in 1987 your wrong. I spent 16 years in Uniform ready willing and able to defend this country. The claim we have some how lost rights and that the Bill of rights is being eroded is nothing more than pap.

    No rights have been lost, none have been taken, all the checks and balances are in place. Meanwhile your country HAS removed privileges such as ownership of weapons, I suggest you look to YOUR non existant freedoms and not worry about ours. Notice I did not use the word rights in your case, since you have none.

    The pot in your case is at a low roil and your quite happy to sit in it and make erroneous claims against us. I imagine someone from 1945 brought to now in your country would be horrified at the changes.

    Is it not amazing that all these NON Americans are so worried about OUR rights and OUR Government and OUR laws. You want a say in them? Immigrate, become a citizen and then you too can vote and participate in OUR Country.

    As for you NOT making any statement on the First Amendment, did you not say " so much for the First Amendment'?
     
  10. doniston
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    doniston Member

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    and those who don't want our legitimate rights even more curtailed.
     

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