This is Law and Order?

[OldLady]

H.R. 3697 Criminal Alien Gang Member Removal Act

Not so sure about the "Law" part.

So the Republicans want to make suspected membership in a gang a crime, regardless if the person has committed any crime and regardless if the person is here legally or not. Suspected membership in a gang alone can lead to automatic deportation. They will be denied entry into the country based on suspected membership in a gang and they will be denied any requests for asylum.

If you aren't a US citizen, we will round you up and send you back to your native country if you are suspected of being a gang member, It also gives authorities the ability to name a group a "gang" under a very wide definition. Although the sponsors of the bill were mostly discussing MS-13, any group of five or more people involved in drug or human smuggling, etc. can be named a gang.

I see how HR 3697, the Criminal Alien Gang Member Removal Act, which was just passed by the House of Representatives, could lead to a lot of racial profiling and abuse of the system. According to the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Senator Goodlatte (R) Virginia, waiting until a gang member commits a crime in order to deport them is unacceptable. I am no Constitutional scholar, but Holy Shit! This is a bit chilling.

On the other hand, I hate gangs and what they are doing to our young people in so many American cities. Making it easier to stop them should be a good thing, but what worries me is this "suspected" part. That's where I see a whole lot of potentially innocent people getting the shaft.

The situation of no evidence and no crime being necessary just gives me the willies.

It will sure cause a surge in tatoo removal services, that's for sure.

This is the actual bill, which will go to the Senate.
Text - H.R.3697 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Criminal Alien Gang Member Removal Act

An article on the bill.
House votes to crack down on undocumented immigrants with gang ties

 

[toobfreak]

So the Republicans want to make suspected membership in a gang a crime, regardless if the person has committed any crime and regardless if the person is here legally or not. Suspected membership in a gang alone can lead to automatic deportation.

Dear Old Lady, with my admittedly limited knowledge of law, I would say offhand that SUSPICION of being part of a gang is insufficient grounds for prosecution and deportation. Deportation is the ultimate loss of civil liberties, and so, must be accompanied with proof of the crime. You must be caught in the act. Then that brings to light what if this is your first and only offense? (murder, robbery, etc., not withstanding) No rehabilitation? No second chance for reformation? Further, just being a member of a gang alone is not in of itself a crime either! That gang must commit a crime and you must participate or have knowledge of it. If so, then ANY gang is subject to threat; what if you are just a member of a motorcycle gang who likes to take long rides?

I understand where their good intentions are, but just as with Sessions' desire to expand forfeiture laws to where just suspicion of a crime justifies seizing all property, this too is wrongheaded. I understand their wish to 'fast-track' criminals out of the country, but you can't do it trampling all over the rights of innocent people in the process.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Well criminal gangs are a very important part the Corrupt Democratic Party's coalition of hate.
So naturally the Dirty Racist Democrats would want to to protect their criminal gang members.
Democrats are real step down for American culture aren't they.

 

[OldLady]

So the Republicans want to make suspected membership in a gang a crime, regardless if the person has committed any crime and regardless if the person is here legally or not. Suspected membership in a gang alone can lead to automatic deportation.

Dear Old Lady, with my admittedly limited knowledge of law, I would say offhand that SUSPICION of being part of a gang is insufficient grounds for prosecution and deportation. Deportation is the ultimate loss of civil liberties, and so, must be accompanied with proof of the crime. You must be caught in the act. Then that brings to light what if this is your first and only offense? (murder, robbery, etc., not withstanding) No rehabilitation? No second chance for reformation? Further, just being a member of a gang alone is not in of itself a crime either! That gang must commit a crime and you must participate or have knowledge of it. If so, then ANY gang is subject to threat; what if you are just a member of a motorcycle gang who likes to take long rides?

I understand where their good intentions are, but just as with Sessions' desire to expand forfeiture laws to where just suspicion of a crime justifies seizing all property, this too is wrongheaded. I understand their wish to 'fast-track' criminals out of the country, but you can't do it trampling all over the rights of innocent people in the process.

I agree. I feel if this passes the Senate, that it will go the route of the first "Muslim Ban" as being totally outside the scope of what we consider legal in this country.
It is also not the only way to combat gangs. I heard on CSPAN this a.m. that border agents report that 30% of the unaccompanied children that were caught trying to enter the country have ties to MS-13. I am not sure what constitutes "ties" to MS-13, but that is certainly a scary statistic that we have no power to prevent (except for keeping them out of here). We aren't in their country working hard to turn around the situations that foster gang membership and then they come here to "work" not picking lettuce but selling drugs.

I can see both sides of the argument but the way this law is written is straight out of a dictatorship nightmare of the future.

Anyone who can offer more clarification is welcome to jump in.

 

[eagle1462010]

This is their target. Hard to find them...............lol.................no...........no.......don't profile

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The Supreme Court just upheld the muslim "ban".

 

[Kosh]

I see how HR 3697, the Criminal Alien Gang Member Removal Act, which was just passed by the House of Representatives, could lead to a lot of racial profiling and abuse of the system.

Yes I am sure many on the far left view things this way, as the far left are the one and only true racists on the planet.

But then again you are relying on far left religious dogma sites for your facts and refuse to read the actual bill you posted.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

The Dirty Democrats just want more low life voters

This is their target. Hard to find them...............lol.................no...........no.......don't profile

 

[miketx]

Oldlady loves her some gangs.

 

[eagle1462010]

ICE-led gang surge nets 1,378 arrests nationwide

Of the 1,378 total arrested, 1,095 were confirmed as gang members and affiliates – including 137 affiliated with the Bloods, 118 with the Sureños, 104 with MS-13, and 104 with the Crips. The remaining 283 claimed no gang affiliation but were arrested on either criminal or administrative charges.

Individuals are confirmed as gang members if they admit membership in a gang; have been convicted of violating Title 18 USC 521 or any other federal or state law criminalizing or imposing civil consequences for gang-related activity; or if they meet certain other criteria such as having tattoos identifying a specific gang or being identified as a gang member by a reliable source.

Three individuals arrested during this operation previously had deferred action under DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals). Aliens granted DACA who are found to pose a threat to national security or public safety may have their deferred action terminated at any time and the Department of Homeland Security may seek their removal from the United States. Since the start of DACA in 2012, DHS has terminated deferred action for approximately 1,500 recipients due to criminality or gang affiliation concerns.

Ten individuals arrested during this operation crossed the border as unaccompanied minors. Nine of the 10 were confirmed as gang members, eight of whom were MS-13 gang members.

During this operation, HSI and its partner law enforcement agencies seized 238 firearms; various narcotics including 790.15 ounces of cocaine, 546.96 ounces of methamphetamine, 113.42 ounces of heroin, 1.59 ounces of fentanyl, and 8,019.46 ounces of marijuana; and $491,763 in U.S currency.

Enforcement actions occurred around the country, with the greatest activity taking place in the HSI Houston, HSI New York, HSI Atlanta, and HSI Newark areas.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

This Bill sounds like a typical RICO law that have been passed and tested for many decades

 

[OldLady]

I see how HR 3697, the Criminal Alien Gang Member Removal Act, which was just passed by the House of Representatives, could lead to a lot of racial profiling and abuse of the system.

Yes I am sure many on the far left view things this way, as the far left are the one and only true racists on the planet.

But then again you are relying on far left religious dogma sites for your facts and refuse to read the actual bill you posted.

Oh, I read it. Heard about it on CSPAN this a.m. and started looking into it a bit. It was the first I had heard of it.

I don't pretend to be great at reading legislation; if you can clarify what it says that I have misinterpreted, I would welcome that.

 

[OldLady]

This is their target. Hard to find them...............lol.................no...........no.......don't profile

It will sure cause a surge in tatoo removal services, that's for sure.

 

[OldLady]

This Bill sounds like a typical RICO law that have been passed and tested for many decades

What is a RICO law?

 

[eagle1462010]

This is their target. Hard to find them...............lol.................no...........no.......don't profile

It will sure cause a surge in tatoo removal services, that's for sure.

Good Luck with that.................lol

 

[Kosh]

I see how HR 3697, the Criminal Alien Gang Member Removal Act, which was just passed by the House of Representatives, could lead to a lot of racial profiling and abuse of the system.

Yes I am sure many on the far left view things this way, as the far left are the one and only true racists on the planet.

But then again you are relying on far left religious dogma sites for your facts and refuse to read the actual bill you posted.

Oh, I read it. Heard about it on CSPAN this a.m. and started looking into it a bit. It was the first I had heard of it.

I don't pretend to be great at reading legislation; if you can clarify what it says that I have misinterpreted, I would welcome that.

Can not teach far left drones anything they are not programmed to accept!

Post the portions you do not understand. and caused you to spew that far left religious dogma.

 

[OldLady]

The Supreme Court just upheld the muslim "ban".

You know that's inaccurate. Care to rephrase that so it's true?

 

[Kosh]

This Bill sounds like a typical RICO law that have been passed and tested for many decades

What is a RICO law?

Google is your friend!

Passed in 1970, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) is a federal law designed to combat organized crime in the United States. It allows prosecution and civil penalties for racketeering activity performed as part of an ongoing criminal enterprise.

 

[Vastator]

H.R. 3697 Criminal Alien Gang Member Removal Act

Not so sure about the "Law" part.

So the Republicans want to make suspected membership in a gang a crime, regardless if the person has committed any crime and regardless if the person is here legally or not. Suspected membership in a gang alone can lead to automatic deportation. They will be denied entry into the country based on suspected membership in a gang and they will be denied any requests for asylum.

If you aren't a US citizen, we will round you up and send you back to your native country if you are suspected of being a gang member, It also gives authorities the ability to name a group a "gang" under a very wide definition. Although the sponsors of the bill were mostly discussing MS-13, any group of five or more people involved in drug or human smuggling, etc. can be named a gang.

I see how HR 3697, the Criminal Alien Gang Member Removal Act, which was just passed by the House of Representatives, could lead to a lot of racial profiling and abuse of the system. According to the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Senator Goodlatte (R) Virginia, waiting until a gang member commits a crime in order to deport them is unacceptable. I am no Constitutional scholar, but Holy Shit! This is a bit chilling.

On the other hand, I hate gangs and what they are doing to our young people in so many American cities. Making it easier to stop them should be a good thing, but what worries me is this "suspected" part. That's where I see a whole lot of potentially innocent people getting the shaft.

The situation of no evidence and no crime being necessary just gives me the willies.

It will sure cause a surge in tatoo removal services, that's for sure.

This is the actual bill, which will go to the Senate.
Text - H.R.3697 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Criminal Alien Gang Member Removal Act

An article on the bill.
House votes to crack down on undocumented immigrants with gang ties

It frankly sounds too good to be true. Therefore it probably is... Or at the very least, it will not stand up to constitutional scrutiny...

 

[eagle1462010]

El Salvador rounding their butts up and throwing them in jail...................we are not the only ones with the problem.