The West Shouldn't Allow Georgia To Be A Sacrificial Lamb For Russia

Discussion in 'General Global Topics' started by JimofPennsylvan, Aug 27, 2008.

  1. JimofPennsylvan
    Offline

    JimofPennsylvan VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Messages:
    385
    Thanks Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Ratings:
    +83
    The status quo in Georgia should not be acceptable to any person of good will. This situation with the Russian Army many miles within the borders of Georgia is alarmingly wrong because it is a deep violation of Georgia’s sovereignty. The location there of these Russian troops with their checkpoints, mines and other manifestations of their presence is economically strangling Georgia, hamstringing their major port of Poti and disrupting traffic flow on their major east-west thoroughfare. If people in the world don’t want to be a bunch of fools they need to start recognizing that Russia has an agenda here in Georgia which is to install a Moscow friendly government to increase Moscow's influence over world events. One huge trophy Russia likely seeks in its internal meddling in Georgia is to get control of the oil pipeline that runs through Georgia and most importantly to prevent any more energy pipelines being built in Georgia to transport energy from countries to the east to the Black Sea, so that Russia will be the undisputed King on energy in that part of the world and thus have the enormous worldwide power that would flow from such status. Russia's claims here that it needs these outposts in Georgia for a security zone is total bunk because as seen over the past month the Russian Army can cut-up the Georgian Army like a hot knife through soft butter. The world needs to step-up now and make it crystal clear to leaders in Russia today and leaders like them in the future that it is done with tyranny in Europe it was done with it at the end of the Cold War and it will forever stay done.



    Unfortunately, the only language the current leaders of Russia understand is the language of power, diplomatic niceties they mock because these leaders are short in the character department. Look at how Putin rolled back democracy (as a form of government) in Russia during his tenure as President, even look at the abominable treatment British Petroleum has received at the hands of the Russian goverment in its Russian joint venture energy company, TNK-BP, where the Russian government has denied visas to BP employees and has conducted all these unjust investigations (tax, etc.) into the joint venture to aid the venture's Russian partners. The current Russian leaders values are that government leaders and their allies can do whatever they want and human rights and the rule of law can be sacrificed and disregarded where it suits a government’s purposes.



    The world must speak the Russsian leaders language if it is to prevail in Georgia. The task of the West can be identified by focusing on the words of the Russian President Medvedev when he said that it would be “nothing frightening” if the Western alliance were to sever all ties (over Georgia). It appears the bullies, Vladimir and Dmitry, need a moving consequence to get them to remove their country's troops off another country's soil. Here’s a consequence that the West should embrace and offer Vladimir and Dmitry; they have forty-five days to get all their troops off Georgian soil or the U.S. is going to give the Georgian Army thirty-six cruise missiles (conventional weapons) that can reach Moscow from Georgian soil. Let’s see if Dimitry will still have his brazen attitude when the major buildings that represent the principle institutions of Russian government in Moscow are a pile of rubble.



    To be succinct, the West needs to prepare Georgians to fight for their country. The West needs to determine if the Georgian people are prepared to fight for their country because that is the only way they are going to get it back. If the Georgian people are then the U.S. should carry out this aforementioned cruise missile strategy, it will give Georgia the power to give Russia a broken nose, valuable leverage for Georgia. Practically, the Georgian people have to prepare to drive, through the use of the gun, the Russian troops presently on Georgian soil off Georgian soil which from a practical standpoint when attempted will likely bring a backlash with the Russian Army going on the offensive and driving into Georgia all the way into Tbilisi and taking over the capital. So, the West has to arm and train the Georgian Army so they will make it enormously costly on the Russian Army when they make this offensive; hopefully, this will give the Russian Government further reason to drop this aggression in Georgia. Moreover, and this is most important aspect of the "use of arms" stratetegy because it has the highest probability to bring success, the Georgian people have to be prepared to conduct a long-term guerrilla war against the Russian Army in Georgia so that the foolishness of the aggression and the political and economic costs cause the Russian army to leave Georgia, the Russian people like all peoples have good common sense and they aren't going to accept Russian leaders getting them into a protracted war in Georgia where their sons, brothers and husbands are dying for an unjust cause. The West needs to prepare and facilitate the Georgian people with weapons to fight such a guerriilla war against Russia.



    Regardless of this whole Russian Army on Georgian soil question, the Georgian people need to clean house in their government and military over the unjust (probably criminal) behavior that occurred in South Ossettia at the hands of the Georgian Army. The evidence is extensive and compelling that the Georgian Army indiscriminately killed innocent civilians with tank and other gun fire and took hostages in South Ossetia during this month's offensive there. Although, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili probably did not intend such immoral behavior at the hands of his troops when he sent them into South Ossetia, it nevertheless occurred and he is culpable. Saakashvili, the Georgian Defense Minister, the head of the Georgian Army and the top officer in charge of the South Ossetia campaign should all resign, this way the country of Georgia's credibilty as a good country can be restored and its place in the family of reputable countries can be maintained.
     
  2. Orange_Juice
    Offline

    Orange_Juice Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,038
    Thanks Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +58
    The west, including the Unisted States, is way to much of a bunch of pussies to do anything about this
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. mightypeon
    Offline

    mightypeon Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    728
    Thanks Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Berlin Germany (NOT MASSACHUSETS)
    Ratings:
    +83
    Are you aware that Georgia started it?
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  4. mightypeon
    Offline

    mightypeon Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    728
    Thanks Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Berlin Germany (NOT MASSACHUSETS)
    Ratings:
    +83
    Wars begin when you please, they will not end when you will.
     
  5. editec
    Offline

    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    41,427
    Thanks Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +5,618
    I think that would not be such a good idea, Jim.

    Seems to me that if the USA starts arming partisans seeking to kills Russians, then the Bear wouldn't have any problem arming partisans all over the world who are interested in killing Americans.

    Do we really want to go back to the days of war with Russia by proxy?

    Now, things might be different if we weren't already embroiled in two land wars in Asia. It might be different if the rest of the world loved America, if we didn't have troops stationed all over the world -- many of them in places where they are there to prop up authoritarian governments with wars of terror of their own.

    But the fact is that America is an empire building nation no less than Russia is. Jim, and we have extended ourselves a bit further than we probably should have, already.

    We are more vulnerable to terrorist attacks than Russia.

    No, I think given the lay of the land right now, given our nation's current economic and strategic and tactical state, a return to cold war by proxy would be the last thing in the world this nation (or world) needs.

    The USA may still have the most powerful conventional and nuclear military in the world, but we definitely do not have the troops or the money (or the heart, either) to be fighting multiple guerilla wars in Central Asia, in the Far East, and Central and South America, too.

    And you are damned right I think the Russians WOULD respond IN KIND if we did what you are advising.

    Think about it for a moment.

    If you ran Russia, and if you discovered that America was arming Georgians to fight a war of terror against Russian interests in a former Soviet nation, wouldn't you start arming Arab terrorists, Central-and-South-American terrorists, in response?
     
  6. RetiredGySgt
    Online

    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    39,574
    Thanks Received:
    5,902
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings:
    +8,990
    So provide us with the list of all the countries we are propping up dictators with American troops. I won't hold my breath waiting though.

    Georgia is our ally, I think we should replace their entire military losses and sail the equipment in with a US battle Fleet. I think we should place US troops in Georgia and everywhere the Russians have a check point we put one ourselves. Every convoy to anywhere should be escorted by American troops and vehicles armed and willing to force the Russians to chose open war or leave the Country. Then when the Russians start shooting we can use the same excuse the whiners have used about Georgia, Russia started it!
     
  7. editec
    Offline

    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    41,427
    Thanks Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +5,618
    Feel free to hold your breath forever...I'll wait.

    Given that you peronally want to die, I can see why you'd think WW III would be okay for the rest of us, I suppose.
     
  8. RetiredGySgt
    Online

    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    39,574
    Thanks Received:
    5,902
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings:
    +8,990
    So you admit you are full of shit when you claim we are propping up countries ALL OVER the world with troops while they fight wars of terror against their own people?

    We have an ally we should back them up. All we do by NOT backing them up is show our other allies we are worthless as such.
     
  9. editec
    Offline

    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    41,427
    Thanks Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +5,618
    No, actually I do not.

    Shall we start with Saddam of Iraq and work our way back in time?
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  10. Ravi
    Offline

    Ravi Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    81,405
    Thanks Received:
    12,697
    Trophy Points:
    2,205
    Location:
    Hating Hatters
    Ratings:
    +29,830
    There was a story on Morning Edition about S.O. today. Seems the Ossetians want to be aligned with Russia. Do their wishes matter?
     

Share This Page