The War within a War. Syria/Iraq

[eagle1462010]

The War within a War. Syria/Iraq

There are several Wars going on there and it is not just a War against ISIS/ISIL. This thread is designed to put out information on trying to understand the various groups fighting each other in both Syria and Iraq. Agreements being made and why they were made. Please refrain from political attacks on this thread. My purpose here is only to understand why each side is killing each other. To grasp an understanding of the main combatants.

Most of these fights are centered around the Kurds in Northern Syria and Northern Iraq. So to start this discussion I'd like to show the tensions and fighting between the Kurds and Turkey.

Turkey - PKK conflict

Turkey–PKK conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since the PKK was founded on 27 November 1978[60] it has been involved in armed clashes with Turkish security forces. The full-scale insurgency, however, did not begin until 15 August 1984, when the PKK announced a Kurdish uprising.[34] The first insurgency lasted until 1 September 1999,[48][61] when the PKK declared a unilateral cease-fire. The armed conflict was later resumed on 1 June 2004, when the PKK declared an end to its cease-fire.[62][63] Since summer 2011, the conflict has become increasingly violent with resumption of large-scale hostilities.[59] In 2013 theTurkish Government and the jailed PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan started a new process regarding the Kurdish question. On 21 March 2013, Öcalan announced the end of armed struggle and a ceasefire with peace talks.[29][64] On July 25, 2015, The PKK finally cancelled their 2013 ceasefire after a year of tension due to various events when the Turks bombed their positions in Iraq,[65] in the midst of their defense against ISIS.

 

[eagle1462010]

Turkey v Islamic State v the Kurds: What's going on? - BBC News

Turkey has launched a high-risk offensive against the rebel Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), while providing the US with an airbase for attacking Islamic State (IS) militants in Syria.

A ceasefire with the PKK collapsed last month, after renewed clashes in south-eastern Turkey. In the latest violence, four Turkish police officers and a soldier were killed in Sirnak, part of the Kurdish-majority region.

Meanwhile, US F-16 fighter jets have arrived at Turkey's southern Incirlik airbase to join the fight against IS. US drones have already launched raids on IS from there.

Turkey says its war on two fronts will prove decisive. Critics say Turkey's strategy - complicated by long-standing problems with its large Kurdish minority - is short-sighted and likely to backfire.



There are several groups of Kurds there. The PKK, the PYD, the YPG, and the KRG. The PKK are the enemy of Turkey and are considered a Terrorist group to Turkey. According to articles the United States also recognize them as a terror organization. Haven't confirmed that.

The PYD, the YPG, and the KRG according to my reading so far have joined efforts to fight ISIS and ISIL and these forces have been using U.S. airstrikes to retake areas from ISIS and ISIL in Northern Iraq and Norther Syria. And in the middle of all of this.............Turkey hit some of them claiming to be hitting IS but in reality the majority of the hits were against the Kurds in the region.............These air attacks ended the Cease Fire Agreement with Turkey and the PKK has now started attacks in Turkey.

Then Turkey has retaliated with attacks including this one inside their own borders.

2015 Suruç bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 2015 Suruç bombing took place in the Suruç district ofŞanlıurfa Province in Turkey at approximately 12:00 local time on 20 July 2015, outside the Amara Culture Centre.[6] 33 people were killed[1][2] and 104 were reported injured.[3][7][8][9] Most victims were members of the Socialist Party of the Oppressed (ESP) Youth Wing and the Socialist Youth Associations Federation (SGDF), university-ages students who were giving a press statement on their planned trip to reconstruct the Syrian border town of Kobanî.[10][11]

Kobanî, which is approximately 10 km from Suruç, was until Januaryunder siege by Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) forces.[12]More than 300 members of the SGDF had travelled from İstanbul to Suruç to participate in three to four days of rebuilding work in Kobanî, and had been staying at Amara Cultural Centre while preparing to cross the border.[13] The explosion, which was caught on camera, was identified as being caused by a cluster bomb[dubious – discuss]detonated during what was perceived to be a suicide attack.[citation needed]

The next day, ISIL (the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) claimed responsibility for the attack.[14] ISIL had allegedly made the decision to pursue more active operations in Turkey just days before the attack.[15][16] The attacker, Şeyh Abdurrahman Alagöz (20), an ethnic Kurd from Adıyaman, reportedly had links to Islamic State militants.[4]

 

[eagle1462010]

Our deal to allow use of Turkish Airbases..........

same article already posted.
Turkey v Islamic State v the Kurds: What's going on? - BBC News

The Washington Post reports that the US and Turkey finally reached agreement on a buffer zone in late July, just as they announced a deal on the use of Incirlik. Many analysts believe Turkey was spurred into action by the need to check the YPG's westward advance in Syria.

According to this theory, the Ankara government realised that its cautious approach to IS had been counter-productive. By holding back, Turkey had inadvertently allowed the YPG to prosper under the shield of American air strikes.

The buffer zone plan reportedly gives Turkey a starring role in the conflict alongside the US.

The plan is said to envisage driving IS out of northern Syria, through US air strikes. Syrian opposition groups - vetted and supported by Turkey and the US - would fill the vacuum, putting a brake on Kurdish territorial gains.

For now, the Turkish and Kurdish forces that are fighting IS are also fighting each other.

The outcome of this multi-faceted contest is uncertain. But Turkey's actions underscore an unofficial axiom of the campaign against IS: the US goal of defeating the militants cannot be untangled from the conflicting aims of its allies in the fight.

 

[eagle1462010]

According to this article......We told Turkey to stop killing the YPG in northern Syria.............

Turkey Ordered to Stop War on Syrian Kurds | Veterans Today

“The focus of the conversation with Turkey is the anti ISIL campaign that we are doing in Syria and Iraq. The YPG has come up in the past and earlier discussions,” Brig. Gen. Kevin Killea, chief of staff for the anti- ISIS military operations, told reporters in a video news conference from the region.
He said the US has made its position about the YPG clear to Ankara, calling the force a “credible reliable partner on the ground in the fight against ISIL in northern Syria.”

“I think the Turkish government understands our position on the YPG,” he added.

The YPG has been an effective force against ISIS in Syria, receiving some US and Western weapons, including limited air support by the US-led coalition.

However, the YPG is also the Syrian extension of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), with which Turkey is again at war, and which is listed as a terrorist organization by the European Union and the United States.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Buffer Zone............Turkey moved the buffer zone into Syria.........

Turkey Moved the Border!

n the midst of claims and counter-claims over Turkey’s shooting of a Russian jet fighter on Nov. 24, Global Research.ca editor Michel Chossudovsky has reposted an Oct. 6 news item from Syrian Free Press (SFP) that reported Turkey had “unilaterally ‘moved’ the Turkish-Syrian border five miles south”.

The Oct. 6 report continues: “One Russian plane may even indeed have slightly crossed the border while manoeuvring [in early October]. But the real reason [for claims of airspace violation] is because Turkey unilaterally ‘moved’ the Turkish-Syrian border five miles south. Turkey has maintained a buffer zone five miles inside Syria since June 2012, when a Syrian air defense missile shot down a Turkish fighter plane that had strayed into Syrian airspace. Under revised rules of engagement put in effect then, the Turkish air force would evaluate any target coming within five miles of the Turkish border as an enemy and act accordingly.”


M of A - Russia "Violated" Turkish Airspace Because Turkey "Moved" Its Border

One Russian plane may even indeed have slightly crossed the border while maneuvering. But the real reason why the U.S. military official and Turkey claim the above "violations" is because Turkey unilaterally "moved" the Turkish-Syrian border five miles south:

Turkey has maintained a buffer zone five miles inside Syria since June 2012, when a Syrian air defense missile shot down a Turkish fighter plane that had strayed into Syrian airspace. Under revised rules of engagement put in effect then, the Turkish air force would evaluate any target coming within five miles of the Turkish border as an enemy and act accordingly.
If Syrian rules of engagement would "move" its northern border up to the Black Sea would any plane in eastern Turkey be in violation of Syrian air space? No one would accept such nonsense and that is why no one should accept the U.S.-Turkish bullshit here. Russian planes should not respect the "new" Turkish defined border but only the legitimate one.

It would also be no good reason to start a NATO-Russia war just because such a plane might at times slightly intrude on the Turkish side due to an emergency or other accidental circumstances. Do we have to mention that the U.S., France, Britain and Jordan regularly violate Syrian airspace for their pretended ISIS bombing? That Turkey is bombing the PKK in north Iraq without the permission of the Iraqi government? What about Israels regular air space violations over Lebanon?

 

[eagle1462010]

Russia ‘Violated’ Turkish Airspace Because Turkey ‘Moved’ Its Border

Turkey has maintained a buffer zone five miles inside Syria since June 2012, when a Syrian air defense missile shot down a Turkish fighter plane that had strayed into Syrian airspace. Under revised rules of engagement put in effect then,the Turkish air force would evaluate any target coming within five miles of the Turkish border as an enemy and act accordingly.

 

[eagle1462010]

According to this article.......AQ, El Nusra, and the FSA have joined forces to kill the Kurds......

The new front opening up in the Syrian conflict between Kurdish militants and al-Qaeda elements not only reopens Kurdish aspirations for independence but brings new threats to regional stability. As fighting between the Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG) and the al-Qaeda affiliates al-Nusrah and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant enters its second week, the options for the West become increasingly narrow. While British Prime Minister David Cameron talks less assuredly about British hopes of arming the “good guys”, Syria’s new war within a war looks increasingly like the bad guys vs. the bad guys.

There are those who believe Turkish support has indirectly enabled Syria’s jihadists. Certainly now, just as the Kurdish groups are putting aside their differences to resist al-Qaeda, the fractured opposition – including Free Syrian Army (FSA) and Islamist brigades as well as al-Nusrah – are now fighting alongside one another, preferring Islamist rule to a breakaway Kurdish movement.

In the absence of a sizable FSA presence or even regime forces, the current options for north-eastern Syria are the PYD or al-Nusrah – both of which are terrorist-affiliated organisations at the very least. This stark choice will no doubt spur those who support as well as those who decry Western intervention. For some, it is further evidence of the need to revive the beleaguered FSA and restore the opposition’s democratic aims; for others, it underlines the difficulty of avoiding weapons proliferation among the “bad guys”. Either way, this latest development demonstrates once again that there are more than just two sides to every Syrian story.

 

[eagle1462010]

So what am I trying to understand..........

The Geopolitical goals of various groups fighting in both Syria and Iraq?

Why we are attacking one group, allying with another group, while condemning another group that has ties to a group that we or our allies condemn and attack?

Why are countries setting up buffer zones inside of Syria and why is Syria challenging these zones along with Russia in recent actions?

The Kurds formed a unified front against ISIL in Iraq and it included the PKK and those allied to the PKK goals for a country for the Kurds there. Thinking that this alliance would drive ISIL out of the Northern regions as ISIL was attacking and killing Kurds. In the middle of the fight a deal was struck by the United States and Turkey to set up a buffer zone to allow use of Turkish airfields. And to justify Turkey defending it's border against the PKK. Turkey felt it had the Green Light to attack the Kurds who were fighting ISIL in Iraq and hit them. Then the PKK said this violated the Cease Fire between them, so they attacked targets in Turkey in Response. Turkey expanded the attacks both inside and outside their country, and stirred up another round of fighting between the Kurds and the Turks. In the middle of all of this, Turkey has helped opposition groups who have joined forces to stop Kurdish expansion in the region. Including the FSA who have allied themselves with AQ and El Nusra in order to stop the Kurds.

To Syria. They have been fighting all of these groups, with exception to the Kurds who have openly been fighting ISIS. They have allied themselves to Iran via proxy elements and Shiite Paramilitary fighters are now fighting with the Syrian army. This includes Hamas and Hezballah. Who's fighters are joining the fray. Russia entered the War and is ATTACKING the BUFFER ZONE RELENTLESSLY. Trying to drive out opposition forces allied to Turkey out of the old boundaries of Syria. This is being done to get rid of the Buffer Zone and re-establish normal Syrian land boundaries.

Under new rules of engagement since 2012, Turkey would shoot down any Syrian Aircraft in the Buffer Zone which under international law is Syrian land. They did this after the Syrians shot down a Turkish F4 fighter in the same area. Latter, as Russia ignored this Buffer Zone in attacks against Rebel forces against Assad, the Turkish military shot down the Russian SU-24 bomber under the new rules of engagement. Which are directly related to the Buffer Zone that Russia and Syria don't recognize as LEGAL.

Now the Russians are hitting the buffer zones even harder and have brought up anti air assets in the region both air, land and sea. Causing Turkey to cease flight operations in the area as behind the scenes Russia is threatening to retaliate against Turkish aircraft in the Buffer Zone.

All in all, this long winded response to the current situation there. Correct me if I'm wrong, and show information that confirms or denies my OPINION on what is going on there.

Please keep the politics out of it. I just want to understand the deal there and to see if I'm understanding it correctly.

Thanks in Advance.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Coming of Kurdistan Is Inevitable
Now that we’re back to chaos, the Kurds have a chance to set up shop – and to actually keep it

Since 1979, the Middle East has been descending into disorganized chaos. The Iran-Iraq War created enough churning to let the Kurds try to wiggle into a taste of freedom, but Saddam gassed them for even trying. It was in the disaster of Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait in 1991 that truly generated the sustained chaos needed for Kurdish independence. While Kurds in Turkey have been attempting – and failing – to fight an insurgency against an organized and determined central government, the Kurds of Iraq were saved by the Angels of the Outfield in the West. After crushing the Shi’a in the aftermath of the Gulf War, Saddam was told not to enter Kurdistan again, one of the few agreements the bastard kept.

As Saddam’s Iraq reeled under the effects of war, sanctions, and occasional American bombings, Kurdistan was given enough breathing space tofight both a civil war and an actual one with Saddam’s army. Following the 2003 invasion, which only ticked the insanity meter up one more notch, Kurdistan effectively set itself up as an independent state in all but name. In fact, I could fly to several of Kurdistan’s airports right now visa free, something I’m not accorded in the rest of Iraq.

 

[eagle1462010]

Has the War turned into a War of Kurdish Independence?

 

[eagle1462010]

Part of the Russian response to the disputed area.



The receiving end video

 

[Supreme Allied Condista]

U.S. Urges Turkey to Seal Border / Remind Turkey's leaders of their NATO treaty obligations

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