The Virtue of Hoarding

[JenyEliza]

You think that the skit they did was real?

Did you even listen to the skit? Did you see it online at least.....they did a really good job with it. (disgusting as it was).

Damn thing went on for weeks....long and drawn out. Even I got hooked on what happened next....and I don't listen to 96.1 anymore.

No, like I said I do not listen to their station in the morning. And at best, I listen to them only 5 minutes a week, mainly in the afternoon.

Do you think it was real?

Evidently you missed this post:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/91077-the-virtue-of-hoarding-3.html#post1692851

No, it's just like WWE or All My Children. But....the teens do.

Shoulda heard the conversations about BB and BS....seen the texts flying between my twin teens and their pals. It was TFF the way the bought it hook line and sinker.

 

[RadiomanATL]

did you even listen to the skit? Did you see it online at least.....they did a really good job with it. (disgusting as it was).

Damn thing went on for weeks....long and drawn out. Even i got hooked on what happened next....and i don't listen to 96.1 anymore.

no, like i said i do not listen to their station in the morning. And at best, i listen to them only 5 minutes a week, mainly in the afternoon.

Do you think it was real?

evidently you missed this post:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/91077-the-virtue-of-hoarding-3.html#post1692851

no, it's just like wwe or all my children. But....the teens do.

Shoulda heard the conversations about bb and bs....seen the texts flying between my twin teens and their pals. It was tff the way the bought it hook line and sinker.

ok.

 

[Thinman]

but do you really walk off a high cliff to learn the lesson that you will be squished to smithereens?

Or do you know already the result and put up warning signs for others not to get too close to the edge of the treacherous cliff?

Most rational people will not walk off a high cliff, so that's not really a fair comparison.

We've had several times throughout history where lending got out of control and we never learn from the mistakes becuase the govt. always comes in and saves us.

When my kid tries to stand up on something that he already knows he's going to fall off of, I don't continually grab him. He's already fallen off of it once, so he needs to learn from that mistake on his own, even if it means another boo boo.

Regulation just puts off the inevitable because the lesson is never learned. Once you have experienced a failure, you will never make that mistake again.

You can tell your kid that he can't climb the apple tree to get that apple because the limbs are weak and he will fall, but if he doesn't try it, he will never know for sure. My kids always tried as soon as I was out of sight.

 

[JenyEliza]

no, like i said i do not listen to their station in the morning. And at best, i listen to them only 5 minutes a week, mainly in the afternoon.

Do you think it was real?

evidently you missed this post:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/91077-the-virtue-of-hoarding-3.html#post1692851

no, it's just like wwe or all my children. But....the teens do.

Shoulda heard the conversations about bb and bs....seen the texts flying between my twin teens and their pals. It was tff the way the bought it hook line and sinker.

ok.

It's a shame you missed it. It was a funny skit. Filled the 25 mile drive to school with a daily laugh and something to look forward to, gave us some excellent opportunities to turn the skit into a few meaningful conversations (ie, how could someone be a 29 year old virgin? What's wrong with waiting for the right person (nothing), the low class way BS was treated) and more...actually good conversations to have with teens in a context they "get".

Like I said, it's a shame you missed it. Lots of funny moments.....especially when the Giant show's team showed up at the hotel room when BB and BS finally, eh, connected. They stole ashtrays, towels, sheets, etc, took a sharpie to 'em and marked 'em with the room number and then sold 'em on e-bay.

I actually kinda miss it now that it's over....but no, I never thought it was real. And I didn't have the heart to tell my kids it was just a storyline cooked up by an intern on a radio show and his bosses liked the idea and let him run with it.

Good career move for him (if he can ever get past the 29 year old virgin thing *or* the name Bitch Boobs, which might stick to him like glue the rest of his life).

 

[RadiomanATL]

evidently you missed this post:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/91077-the-virtue-of-hoarding-3.html#post1692851

ok.

It's a shame you missed it. It was a funny skit. Filled the 25 mile drive to school with a daily laugh and something to look forward to, gave us some excellent opportunities to turn the skit into a few meaningful conversations (ie, how could someone be a 29 year old virgin? What's wrong with waiting for the right person (nothing), the low class way BS was treated) and more...actually good conversations to have with teens in a context they "get".

Like I said, it's a shame you missed it. Lots of funny moments.....especially when the Giant show's team showed up at the hotel room when BB and BS finally, eh, connected. They stole ashtrays, towels, sheets, etc, took a sharpie to 'em and marked 'em with the room number and then sold 'em on e-bay.

I actually kinda miss it now that it's over....but no, I never thought it was real. And I didn't have the heart to tell my kids it was just a storyline cooked up by an intern on a radio show and his bosses liked the idea and let him run with it.

Good career move for him (if he can ever get past the 29 year old virgin thing *or* the name Bitch Boobs, which might stick to him like glue the rest of his life).

I can almost guarantee you it wasn't thought up by the intern.

 

[Paulie]

but do you really walk off a high cliff to learn the lesson that you will be squished to smithereens?

Or do you know already the result and put up warning signs for others not to get too close to the edge of the treacherous cliff?

Most rational people will not walk off a high cliff, so that's not really a fair comparison.

We've had several times throughout history where lending got out of control and we never learn from the mistakes becuase the govt. always comes in and saves us.

When my kid tries to stand up on something that he already knows he's going to fall off of, I don't continually grab him. He's already fallen off of it once, so he needs to learn from that mistake on his own, even if it means another boo boo.

Regulation just puts off the inevitable because the lesson is never learned. Once you have experienced a failure, you will never make that mistake again.

Well, that's a bit absolute. Not all people are rational all the time. Austrians get a bad rap because opponents think that's what we think. They think we think people are perfect and will always make the right decisions if just left alone. That's not true at all.

All we're asking is give us a damn CHANCE to learn from the mistakes!

Over time, it should be EXPECTED that we would become more financially wise as we make errors and then make adjustments. To think otherwise gives human beings zero credit.

 

[thrival]

Well since sum peepl want to go off 1/2-cocked about the fed, let me chime in.

0% interest rates are normal and natural IF Congress retakes ownership of it's currency
and printing press. Government can make 0% and low interest loans direct to
businesses and consumers, cutting bankers and investors off at the knees. Pay banks
a distribution and accounting fee only, no % on loans originated. That's an "entitlement"
that has never been challenged. You pay interest, AND you pay taxes because govt is
broke every year it prints currency and sells to the fed for cost of paper and ink. So being
broke, the govt MUST tax. So because of banks, you must pay TWICE, a private tax
to them (interest) and a public tax to govt in a submissive role to banks. You see, while
the Constitution is very clear who/how currency is created, it's mum how it should be
distributed, and thereby hangs a tale.

By not investing in education, new factories, businesses to hire workers and make America
self-sufficient vs. "interdependent," our nation is the poorer. Globalism's promise to float
all boats is a lie. Even depopulator Kissinger said there would be losers, and that is US.
And also I've found most libertarians fit the definition for libertines more than liberty.
Some folks think that intraspecies predation is normal; what a sorry vision they have for
our world. Rand was a failure specifically because she left God and idealism (creation &
intelligence) out of the equation.

Honk if you favor abundance.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

0% interest rates are not normal or natural unless the market sets the interest rate at 0%. Any outside force artificially setting the interest rate is going to lead to malinvestment causing a bubble and an inevitable bust.

 

[Paulie]

0% interest rates are not normal or natural unless the market sets the interest rate at 0%. Any outside force artificially setting the interest rate is going to lead to malinvestment causing a bubble and an inevitable bust.

As long as we acknowledge that even if an absolute free market set a 0% interest rate, malinvestment is of course still possible.

All we Austrians are really asking is for the CHANCE to have the ability to set our own rate of interest, and do our own financial due diligence while we learn from our decisions. If the free market set a 0% interest rate and caused a malinvestment bubble to burst, then so be it. We live and we learn. My guess is that next time around, we'd either set it at 0% again if we so chose, and we'd invest more wisely, or we wouldn't bother setting it that low anymore becuase we learned that a 0% interest rate is irresponsible and unwise.

If there was no implied and expected saving grace (the government) each time a recession happened, my guess is there'd be way less financially uninformed people in this country.

It's realistic to think that if we were left alone to make mistakes and learn from them, we'd become more financially intelligent over time.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

0% interest rates are not normal or natural unless the market sets the interest rate at 0%. Any outside force artificially setting the interest rate is going to lead to malinvestment causing a bubble and an inevitable bust.

As long as we acknowledge that even if an absolute free market set a 0% interest rate, malinvestment is of course still possible.

All we Austrians are really asking is for the CHANCE to have the ability to set our own rate of interest, and do our own financial due diligence while we learn from our decisions. If the free market set a 0% interest rate and caused a malinvestment bubble to burst, then so be it. We live and we learn. My guess is that next time around, we'd either set it at 0% again if we so chose, and we'd invest more wisely, or we wouldn't bother setting it that low anymore becuase we learned that a 0% interest rate is irresponsible and unwise.

If there was no implied and expected saving grace (the government), my guess is there'd be way less financially uninformed people in this country.

It's realistic to think that if we were left alone to make mistakes and learn from them, we'd become more financially intelligent over time.

People might start doing the wrong things if the market set the interest rates at 0%, however, the interest rate is going to shoot up as more people start borrowing thereby nullifying that effect. The interest rate would be based on actual savings rather than artificially created money.

 

[Paulie]

0% interest rates are not normal or natural unless the market sets the interest rate at 0%. Any outside force artificially setting the interest rate is going to lead to malinvestment causing a bubble and an inevitable bust.

As long as we acknowledge that even if an absolute free market set a 0% interest rate, malinvestment is of course still possible.

All we Austrians are really asking is for the CHANCE to have the ability to set our own rate of interest, and do our own financial due diligence while we learn from our decisions. If the free market set a 0% interest rate and caused a malinvestment bubble to burst, then so be it. We live and we learn. My guess is that next time around, we'd either set it at 0% again if we so chose, and we'd invest more wisely, or we wouldn't bother setting it that low anymore becuase we learned that a 0% interest rate is irresponsible and unwise.

If there was no implied and expected saving grace (the government), my guess is there'd be way less financially uninformed people in this country.

It's realistic to think that if we were left alone to make mistakes and learn from them, we'd become more financially intelligent over time.

People might start doing the wrong things if the market set the interest rates at 0%, however, the interest rate is going to shoot up as more people start borrowing thereby nullifying that effect. The interest rate would be based on actual savings rather than artificially created money.

This is of course true. We wouldn't be STUCK with .2% interest like we are now, left wondering if it's even possible to exit from it without extremely damaging repercussions.

Bernanke's got it allllllllll figured out though, so sleep well at night.

 

[thrival]

You guys are missunderstanding me on purpose. My premise is that government of "We the People" (through an elected Congress) take back the power of currency issuance and valuation as defined in the Constitution, before it was abrogated to banksters via the FRA. Government should be the issuer of currency, (at least if you favor the founders), not private banks.

Govt. Currency issues at 0%, while fiat currency (in our case) issues at 3% of GNP (debt) before it even leaves the unloading docks, because that's what Uncle Sam agreed to pay the fed for "managing" our economy. It goes to the FRB's and then the mom & pop banks with further % charges attached. That's a private conduit, currency cartel that adds no value, only costs, to the American people's money, for nothing but a distribution function, and for which reason you must also pay federal taxes to cover the fact that Uncle Sam is broke every time he prints money and then gives it away to Fed Reserve Banksters for cost of paper and ink.

Anyway, those of you griping over 0% interest should get real jobs and meaningful work because you learned the wrong lesson from banksters and think interest income is some kind of personal entitlement. Going back to founding principles, before they got compromised, would undercut the passive greedster element of the "free" market (which is everything but, with all you parasites demanding "money for nuthin") and all you fat feeders could actually do some work in the factories you might own. The private capital markets would dry up because no one could compete against the government's low rates, and that's a good thing.

 

[Paulie]

thrival I understand what you're saying.

But you appear to be missing the point that the currency was supposed to be backed by gold and silver. That was removed because it became obvious to the government that spending a lot of money was impossible with a gold standard.

0%....50%....whatever. As long as the market made the decision without centralized manipulation.

As far as Congress controlling the money supply, that worries me. I realize it's in the constitution, but congress can't be trusted to control SHIT right now. On the other hand, it might get people to vote smarter. Who knows.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You guys are missunderstanding me on purpose. My premise is that government of "We the People" (through an elected Congress) take back the power of currency issuance and valuation as defined in the Constitution, before it was abrogated to banksters via the FRA. Government should be the issuer of currency, (at least if you favor the founders), not private banks.

Govt. Currency issues at 0%, while fiat currency (in our case) issues at 3% of GNP (debt) before it even leaves the unloading docks, because that's what Uncle Sam agreed to pay the fed for "managing" our economy. It goes to the FRB's and then the mom & pop banks with further % charges attached. That's a private conduit, currency cartel that adds no value, only costs, to the American people's money, for nothing but a distribution function, and for which reason you must also pay federal taxes to cover the fact that Uncle Sam is broke every time he prints money and then gives it away to Fed Reserve Banksters for cost of paper and ink.

Anyway, those of you griping over 0% interest should get real jobs and meaningful work because you learned the wrong lesson from banksters and think interest income is some kind of personal entitlement. Going back to founding principles, before they got compromised, would undercut the passive greedster element of the "free" market (which is everything but, with all you parasites demanding "money for nuthin") and all you fat feeders could actually do some work in the factories you might own. The private capital markets would dry up because no one could compete against the government's low rates, and that's a good thing.

Obviously the Constitution says that those powers belong with the Congress, but that's not much better than having the Fed do it. We need the market to be setting interest rates, not artificially manipulated. And calling for the market to set interest rates has nothing to do with us wanting free money, I'm not even sure how you come to that conclusion.

 

[thrival]

"Obviously the Constitution says that those powers belong with the Congress, but that's not much better than having the Fed do it. We need the market to be setting interest rates, not artificially manipulated. And calling for the market to set interest rates has nothing to do with us wanting free money, I'm not even sure how you come to that conclusion."

The difference is that Congress is elected by US (We the People) and answerable to US via elections, whereas the Fed Reserv is insulated and answerable only to its stockholders and has never even been audited. There's no such thing as a "free market" but only a market of 'interested parties,' and men do conspire, form trusts and cartels, hence the need for antitrust laws, etc. The real evil is when governments and industry collude to defraud the people of everything they own. So far our govt has just been bumbling stoopid, but injurious enough. The master-blaster team (bankers/govt) needs to be broken up.

Too many Americans (albeit a minority) see themselves as predators and are perfectly OK with that. They rail against social entitlements that cost a few billion to keep people alive while demanding trillions for themselves. They are called bankers. (I also have a beef with landlords, but without bankers to collude with, these parasites couldn't manage to force people from their homes and create a new subclass of disenfranchised renters.) Too many so called sophisticated investors are really just lazy bums looking for free money any way the "free market" allows, but unfortunately that includes coercion, exploitation and degrees of slavery, and no I'm not a communist; but do take note how many US captains of industry spouting libertine "freedom" quietly took their factories to where the slaves (fish-in-a-barrel) are-- communist Red China.

If government was the lender of record to everyone, then exploitation would end. It takes a new distribution system where bank owners are simply paid a distribution fee, no interest on loan amounts or percent of GNP. This idea was proposed over 100 years ago by Jeffrey Marks in his book: The Modern Idolatry

Gold and silver backing is history. Bankers were good at one thing, showing us that everything has a value and can serve as the basis for asset-based loans. The question is, how much of all you see, does the govt. own, vs you own. There are many other facets that need to be worked out to create a Just economy. Get to work.

 

[KentuckyThinker]

My mom was a pack-rat- but certainly not a hoarder..

And she saved money well, without being a money hoarder.. She shopped a LOT, really..

I can see the point of the thread though. It is better to find balance, than to stifle all spending. OK.

I do not want to minimize the thread's purpose though.. OP- what is your actual position on this?

My position is that it's good to "hoard" or save money, especially in times like these.

I agree with you in principle, but I would much rather hoard gold, silver or necessities rather than dollars.

 

[Oddball]

Circulated junk silver coin is as good a place to start as any.

 

[KentuckyThinker]

Circulated junk silver coin is as good a place to start as any.

Great minds think alike. I've been buying up Mercury dimes, Franklin halves and other pre-1965 coins for a while Dude.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"Obviously the Constitution says that those powers belong with the Congress, but that's not much better than having the Fed do it. We need the market to be setting interest rates, not artificially manipulated. And calling for the market to set interest rates has nothing to do with us wanting free money, I'm not even sure how you come to that conclusion."

The difference is that Congress is elected by US (We the People) and answerable to US via elections, whereas the Fed Reserv is insulated and answerable only to its stockholders and has never even been audited. There's no such thing as a "free market" but only a market of 'interested parties,' and men do conspire, form trusts and cartels, hence the need for antitrust laws, etc. The real evil is when governments and industry collude to defraud the people of everything they own. So far our govt has just been bumbling stoopid, but injurious enough. The master-blaster team (bankers/govt) needs to be broken up.

Too many Americans (albeit a minority) see themselves as predators and are perfectly OK with that. They rail against social entitlements that cost a few billion to keep people alive while demanding trillions for themselves. They are called bankers. (I also have a beef with landlords, but without bankers to collude with, these parasites couldn't manage to force people from their homes and create a new subclass of disenfranchised renters.) Too many so called sophisticated investors are really just lazy bums looking for free money any way the "free market" allows, but unfortunately that includes coercion, exploitation and degrees of slavery, and no I'm not a communist; but do take note how many US captains of industry spouting libertine "freedom" quietly took their factories to where the slaves (fish-in-a-barrel) are-- communist Red China.

If government was the lender of record to everyone, then exploitation would end. It takes a new distribution system where bank owners are simply paid a distribution fee, no interest on loan amounts or percent of GNP. This idea was proposed over 100 years ago by Jeffrey Marks in his book: The Modern Idolatry

Gold and silver backing is history. Bankers were good at one thing, showing us that everything has a value and can serve as the basis for asset-based loans. The question is, how much of all you see, does the govt. own, vs you own. There are many other facets that need to be worked out to create a Just economy. Get to work.

Yes, the Congress is elected by the people but that doesn't change a thing. I don't want the Fed or the Congress manipulating interest rates. No central planner is good enough because the market is too diverse. We need to let the market set interest rates based on savings.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

My mom was a pack-rat- but certainly not a hoarder..

And she saved money well, without being a money hoarder.. She shopped a LOT, really..

I can see the point of the thread though. It is better to find balance, than to stifle all spending. OK.

I do not want to minimize the thread's purpose though.. OP- what is your actual position on this?

My position is that it's good to "hoard" or save money, especially in times like these.

I agree with you in principle, but I would much rather hoard gold, silver or necessities rather than dollars.

I'd agree with that 100%. Besides, gold and silver are "real" money.