The truth about Dubbyuh's "War Years"

[wonderwench]

This is a tiny tempest in a very small teapot.

George Bush received a preferential assignment in the National Guard - something that was very common for the children of well-connected politicians in the Vietnam Era. The scions of several Texas Dems (ie, the son of John Connelly) received similar treatment.

An actual evaluation of the facts yields the following:

Bush requested an assignment in Alabama due to his job being located in that state. He served in Alabama.

He missed a physical which was rescheduled and completed at a later date. He rescheduled other duties, as if quite common in the National Guard.

He fulfilled his obligations and received an honorable discharge.

Michael Moore calling Bush a deserter is rather funny, considering the source.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Just watch...

I've been.

I've been watching the democrats whine like little girls since this effort failed in 2000, and I look forward to another 4 more years of the very same whining. Get some throat lozenges, you're going to need them.

 

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
But, what they did 25 years ago impacts upon who they are today. Clinton has the morals of a goat. Bush has no morals.

I agree with ya Bully but what I was trying to say there ( with my great typing ...LOL) was that it seems as though many didnt argue the fact of Clinton's past ( or found it easy to forget) but yes you are right , it should be the man/woman's whole life that is taken into account. Unfortunatley I have yet to see any elected official that doesnt have some type of trash in the closet!!for that matter we all have some we would like to forget.... As for morals , if ya can show me any politician with them welll lets just say I would be surprised...LOL
Jeff

 

[jimnyc]

It looks like this matter will finally be laid to rest.

Bush Orders Release of Military Records

WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites), trying to calm a political storm, ordered the release of all of his Vietnam-era military records Friday to counter Democrats' suggestions that he shirked his duty in the Texas Air National Guard.

Hundreds of pages of documents detailed Bush's service in the Guard in Texas and his temporary duty in Alabama while working on a political campaign there in the early 1970s. Democrats have questioned whether Bush ever showed up for duty in Alabama.

"The president felt everything should be made available to the public," White House press secretary said. "There were some who sought to leave a wrong impression that there was something to hide when there is not."

Bush's service record has been an issue in each of his presidential campaigns and resurfaced this year when Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee (news - web sites), said Bush had been AWOL — absent without leave — during his time in Alabama.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...40213/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_military_records_58

 

[Bullypulpit]

...One of those apocyphal weird stories that come out of Texas politics.

One, during a congressional campaign, Lyndon Johnson was said to have pulled a campaign staffer aside for a little discussion. He sadt "boy, I want you to start a rumor that my opponent has sexual relations (this is a polite version) with pigs."

""Sir...!", the staffer exclaimed, "...We can't do that! He doesn't have sexual congress with pigs!"

Lyndon just smiled, "Yeah, I know boy...But we can make him deny it."

 

[winston churchi]

Did I read correctly that someone on this board stated George W. Bush was a deserter at time of war?

Where on earth were you when former President Clinton was running for President? Was he not a deserter as well? Was he not the President known as 'slick Willy draft dodger' by Vietnam vets? Was he not the 'man' who protested against his own country during this time?

The fact that a man such as that could ever stand before the American public and Com. and Ch.

Never mind the other scandels that he had cost the American Public with investigations...If you are going to accuse anyone of deserting, begin with a fact.

 

[Scourge]

Bush would probably do well to limit talk about his military service.

Him landing on the aircraft carrier looking like some war hero is a tough sell if he goes head to head with Kerry.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Actually, it doesn't. Pay records do not reflect time served. It is only a pay record. If anything, the info raises more questions than ti answers.

Such as stupid statement. Have you ever served in the Guard or reserves? You don't get paid unless you show up or make up for, or make up in some othetr fashion, your drill. Period. DOH!

 

[lilcountriegal]

Bush would probably do well to limit talk about his military service. Him landing on the aircraft carrier looking like some war hero is a tough sell if he goes head to head with Kerry.

Riiiiiiight. As compared to Kerry's stellar service.

I think I'll choose a former pilot landing on an aircraft carrier in a flight suit, over a former Vietnam veteran who returned to American spitting in the faces of his fellow servicemen and siding with the enemy.

Bush may not have saw combat in Vietnam, but Kerry's experience is far more controversal.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Scourge
Bush would probably do well to limit talk about his military service.

Him landing on the aircraft carrier looking like some war hero is a tough sell if he goes head to head with Kerry.

George bush was in the National guard. He never claimed to be a war hero. Kerry came back and told lies to congress about the military. He threw someone else's medals over the white house fence, in protest. What a shameful, shameful liar.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Scourge
but you're my source now... so answer this: What's the highest office a foreign born us citizen can reach? I know its not President, but could one be VP? Or Chief of staff?

Maybe Chief of Staff but not Veep as the Veep has to become President if something happens to the sitting pres (as if you needed that gov't lesson).

 

[Scourge]

WHoa! What? Kerry spat on his fellow American soldiers? What did he do?
I thought he was a hero (decorated heavily) who came home and protested the war (his right) and had experience to back up his assertions...
or am I way off?

 

[Scourge]

freeand1. If the pres and VP die/whatever, then who's in charge? Chief of staff? then Speaker of the house? Could they be foreign born? There is no point to this, just my curiosity. Unless I decide to become a foreign born high ranking politician. Then I'll call you for sure.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Scourge
WHoa! What? Kerry spat on his fellow American soldiers? What did he do?

I thought he was a hero (decorated heavily) who came home and protested the war (his right) and had experience to back up his assertions... or am I way off?

Well, in a way, I think you are way off. I agree that he had a right to protest. Everybody in this great country does.

However, as a military man, I would think that he would have been more sensitive to those being held in prison. You can protest quietly and I believe that his position at the time caused much more harm than good. It is not like he was didn't volunteer to go. Furthermore, as a military man, he should have expected that his words would give those holding our POW's ammunition to continue their degredation.

 

[Scourge]

So, freeandfun1, it was his words being used against POWs that was the big deal? Not his vocal protestation of America's involvement in Vietnam. that basically he should've kept quiet because it was not the place and time to do that? Is that your point? (no sarcasm-seriously).

Maybe I don't see how a soldier disagreeing with his government's stance should have hurt a POW. I mean I read a bit about John McCain and his problem with Kerry at the time, but weren't POWs subjected to all the crazy sh*t that prisoners get in any war? What did a few statements from Kerry do that made life so much worse? I have never been in a prison camp, and I doubt most of us here have, but if there is something I'm missing give an opinion.

For all my problems with our foreign policy, I don't hate our soldiers, nor do I 'like' Saddam or Osama, etc. I just don't think someone's a traitor for protesting. I think its a tough, patriotic thing to do, when you know people are gonna give you all kinds of sh*t for it, but you think its right just the same. plus, unlike some stoned hippie, he was THERE. No offense to stoned hippies, I might like to be one someday...

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Scourge
So, freeandfun1, it was his words being used against POWs that was the big deal? Not his vocal protestation of America's involvement in Vietnam. that basically he should've kept quiet because it was not the place and time to do that? Is that your point? (no sarcasm-seriously).

Maybe I don't see how a soldier disagreeing with his government's stance should have hurt a POW. I mean I read a bit about John McCain and his problem with Kerry at the time, but weren't POWs subjected to all the crazy sh*t that prisoners get in any war? What did a few statements from Kerry do that made life so much worse? I have never been in a prison camp, and I doubt most of us here have, but if there is something I'm missing give an opinion.

For all my problems with our foreign policy, I don't hate our soldiers, nor do I 'like' Saddam or Osama, etc. I just don't think someone's a traitor for protesting. I think its a tough, patriotic thing to do, when you know people are gonna give you all kinds of sh*t for it, but you think its right just the same. plus, unlike some stoned hippie, he was THERE. No offense to stoned hippies, I might like to be one someday...

I never said he was a traitor. My point is, as a military man and an officer that VOLUTEERED to go, his active protesting was a slap in the face of the men that HE led. I am not saying don't do anything, but I do feel he owed a bit of deference since just a few weeks before he was sending young soldiers under him on missions that put them in harms way. But once he was back home and safe (safe from the enemy and safe from a court-martial) he basically told them - hey, I told you to go and die and while I never believed in the mission. Yes, I volunteered, but hey, I am home safe now, so rest in your grave knowing I sent you to your death for no good reason.

If you have never served in the military you might not understand how I feel about it. I served for 8 years in the US Army of which a year was spent in Saudi Arabia/Iraq during the first Gulf War. Although I did not see combat anything like what Kerry did, I know that I would not denegrate what those under me that might have died, even if I did not agree with the reasons of the war. If I was that adament about it, I wound not volunteer to serve.

Remember, he volunteered and he was an officer. He was supposed to be the leader. The guys that he led were, for the most part, draftees. They had no choice.

All this might not make much sense, but I know what I am trying to say.

I have no issue with his service and I honestly don't have a lot of issues with his protesting - other than I, as an ex-soldier, feel it was disrespectful to those that died while serving under him. But then again, maybe I am wrong.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

My issue is that he made statement to congress that were lies. And as a direct result of his negotiations some P.O.W.s were left to rot.

 

[lilcountriegal]

Maybe I don't see how a soldier disagreeing with his government's stance should have hurt a POW

Exactly as RWA pointed out. There is a HUGE difference between disagreeing and protesting, and outright lying. What Kerry said was happening over in Vietnam once he was home safe on U.S. soil were outright lies. Everyone knew they were lies when he spat them out of his mouth, including himself.

He is no war hero.

 

[Scourge]

Okay. What did he say? I have no clue what you mean. What did he say to congress? (if you know, or if you have a link-whatever just so i know what the hell we're talking about).

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Scourge
freeand1. If the pres and VP die/whatever, then who's in charge? Chief of staff? then Speaker of the house? Could they be foreign born? There is no point to this, just my curiosity. Unless I decide to become a foreign born high ranking politician. Then I'll call you for sure.

Speaker of the House is next in line. Then it goes through some of the Cabinet heads. Actually, I think the Postmaster General is eighth in line. Gives a new meaning to a nation going postal!