The tremendous power of the social paradigms created by WWII - Part I - The citizen

[José]

The same average westerner that calls the jewish supremacist state a "beacon of light in the Middle East" has no problem at all crucifying the United States for the totally harmless Chinese Exclusion Act.

Originally posted by Coyote
Yes, and those were some pretty damning and shameful periods in our history weren't they?

Forget our own history? Not in the least. We should not forget it and we should not be repeating it or using it's injustices to support further injustices.

How many US natives were harmed by the Chinese Exclusion Act?

How many native americans were killed or lost their tribal homelands because of that piece of legislation?

How many free american blacks were enslaved again because of it?

How many miles of its homeland did Mexico lose to american imperialism due to that Act?

The only natives harmed by the Chinese Exclusion Act were the natives of China themselves people who never had any natural right to live in America in the first place.

If the average westerner, represented here by Coyote, considers the Exclusion Act an "injustice", a "pretty damning and shameful period in US history" and at the same time says Israel has a right to use "lethal force" against palestinians and calls Israel a "beacon of light" willfully ignoring the hundred of thousands of natives arrested, shot and murdered.

If they say all that, what's the only conclusion that can possibly be drawn from all the statements above?

The fact that Coyote, the typical westerner, believes chinese people in Beijing, Shangai and Hong Kong have more right to live in America than Palestinians in 80% of Palestine.

I have a clear conscience I didn't put these nutteries on Coyote's mouth... She typed these nutteries herself... using her own fingers.

Talk about mess, mental confusion of astronomical proportions.

 

[José]

The first idea exposed on this thread, the idea that Ruby Bridges is entitled to more rights in America than Palestinians in Palestine sounds almost "reasonable" when compared with this nuttery according to which chinese people have more of a right to live in America than Palestinians in Palestine.

But I'll say it again, none of this is the average westerner's fault...

The fault falls squarely on the ways of thinking created by WWII.

 

[Shusha]

Still not especially coherent. And you are having trouble with the word "objective" as well.

So let's talk about walls and the restriction of peoples movements. And let's start creating some objective rules here. Rules that can be applied consistently, fairly and equally to all situations.

Potential rules from the above posts:

It is morally correct to exclude people from movement or immigration based on their ethnicity or former nationality. Yes or no?
It is morally correct to create borders between nations. Yes or no?
It is morally correct to segregate people based on their race, religion, or ethnicity. Yes or no?
It is morally correct to protect a nation's citizens from hostile actors through the use of checkpoints, walls, no-go zones and LEO's. Yes or no?


Have a shot at some of those. See, I've talked to Coyote alot. I respect her views. Actually, she is the person on Team Palestine who I have the most respect for (and she is quite biased for Palestine, which is fine, as I'm biased toward Israel, both of us quite rationally). And I think Coyote's argument in internally consistent. Yours appears not to be. Aside from your clear and irrational bias against Israel and Jews, your own argument contradicts itself.

 

[Phoenall]

Originally posted by Shusha
These posts are a mess.

Ok, here's the skinny on the second part of this thread:

From 1948 to today the border guards who man these watchtowers have arrested, assaulted, maimed and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians whose crime was trying to go unarmed from Gaza City, Khan Yunis, etc... to other parts of their homeland.

This is the the average westerner's appraisal of the jewish state:

Originally posted by Coyote
Israel is supposed to be a beacon of light in the ME.

The tremendous power of the social paradigms created by WWII - Part I - The citizen

Post #163

A murderous racial dictatorship that has been exterminating for the last 68 years the very same people it should treat as its citizens being described as (almost) "a beacon of light in the Middle East", (as being well on its way to becoming) "a beacon of light in the Middle East".

If this is not the dehumanization of the palestinian people and the superhumanization of the jewish people, a kind of free pass westerners give to Israel (due to the Holocaust) that no other country enjoys, then the concepts of superhumanization and dehumanization themselves have no meaning at all.

You can call the reality of the superhumanization of the jewish people in the post-WWII world an "anti-semitic canard" but it doesn't make the phenomenon any less real.

And when did they acquire this homeland, what post 1917 treaty allocated this land to them. The one question you pro terrorist stooges can never answer as there is no treaty and there is no legal right to the land.
As in all wars there are casualties and if you try and invade your enemies country you will be shot, this is not murder as you claim. As for yiur inflated figures less than 1000 palestinians have been murdered by the IDF, the rest died in the war that has been raging since 1921

 

[Phoenall]

The first idea exposed on this thread, the idea that Ruby Bridges is entitled to more rights in America than Palestinians in Palestine sounds almost "reasonable" when compared with this nuttery according to which chinese people have more of a right to live in America than Palestinians in Palestine.

But I'll say it again, none of this is the average westerner's fault...

The fault falls squarely on the ways of thinking created by WWII.

What rights do Mexican illegal immigrants have in the US, because that is all the arab muslims have in your so called palestine

 

[Phoenall]

The same average westerner that calls the jewish supremacist state a "beacon of light in the Middle East" has no problem at all crucifying the United States for the totally harmless Chinese Exclusion Act.

Originally posted by Coyote
Yes, and those were some pretty damning and shameful periods in our history weren't they?

Forget our own history? Not in the least. We should not forget it and we should not be repeating it or using it's injustices to support further injustices.

How many US natives were harmed by the Chinese Exclusion Act?

How many native americans were killed or lost their tribal homelands because of that piece of legislation?

How many free american blacks were enslaved again because of it?

How many miles of its homeland did Mexico lose to american imperialism due to that Act?

The only natives harmed by the Chinese Exclusion Act were the natives of China themselves people who never had any natural right to live in America in the first place.

If the average westerner, represented here by Coyote, considers the Exclusion Act an "injustice", a "pretty damning and shameful period in US history" and at the same time says Israel has a right to use "lethal force" against palestinians and calls Israel a "beacon of light" willfully ignoring the hundred of thousands of natives arrested, shot and murdered.

If they say all that, what's the only conclusion that can possibly be drawn from all the statements above?

The fact that Coyote, the typical westerner, believes chinese people in Beijing, Shangai and Hong Kong have more right to live in America than Palestinians in 80% of Palestine.

I have a clear conscience I didn't put these nutteries on Coyote's mouth... She typed these nutteries herself... using her own fingers.

Talk about mess, mental confusion of astronomical proportions.

Of topic

Of topic

Of topic

Of topic

Of topic

Yes Israel does have the right entrenched in international law to defend its citizens from attack and terrorism

Because the Chinese will migrate legally, the so called palestinians are illegal immigrants with no rights to the land

And you just type the dross you pick up from the hate sites because you dont have the brains to look outside your comfort zone

 

[Phoenall]

The first idea exposed on this thread, the idea that Ruby Bridges is entitled to more rights in America than Palestinians in Palestine sounds almost "reasonable" when compared with this nuttery according to which chinese people have more of a right to live in America than Palestinians in Palestine.

But I'll say it again, none of this is the average westerner's fault...

The fault falls squarely on the ways of thinking created by WWII.

This way of thinking was around well before WW2, it was around in the 7C when mo'mad invented islam and told his followers to KILL THE UNBELIEVERS

 

[José]

Originally posted by Shusha
See, I've talked to Coyote alot. I respect her views.

Of course you do...

You are a dehumanizer of the Palestinian people just like her.

You both believe the natural rights of the Palestinian people to live in most of their homeland is "smoke and mirrors" (Coyote's actual words).

Originally posted by Shusha
And I think Coyote's argument in internally consistent.

Let me see...

America committed a historic "injustice" in the 19th century, a "damning and shameful period in US history" for not allowing chinese people to travel 6254 miles and live in a country as alien as Mars to them but Israel has the right to arrest, shoot and murder refugees born in Ashkelon and Jerusalem, 60 or 40 years ago.

Arguments don't get any more consistent than this...

As consistent as a crumbling building collapsing under its own weight.

Originally posted by Shusha
Actually, she is the person on Team Palestine who I have the most respect for (and she is quite biased for Palestine, which is fine, as I'm biased toward Israel, both of us quite rationally).

I see... people "quite biased for Palestine" and the so-called "Team Palestine" is made up of people who support Israel's right to use "lethal force" against refugees fighting for their natural rights.

With "friends" like these who needs the IDF?

 

[José]

I'm not ignoring your excellent questions, Shusha, just "saving" them for an appropriate thread : )

 

[Shusha]

You are a dehumanizer of the Palestinian people just like her.

You both believe the natural rights of the Palestinian people to live in most of their homeland is "smoke and mirrors" (Coyote's actual words).

On the contrary. I am quite outspoken here about Palestinian rights -- their right to a homeland, their right to sovereignty on territory they lived on for thousands of years, their right to safety and security, their right to access their own holy places.

I just think the Jewish people have the same rights.

 

[Phoenall]

Originally posted by Shusha
See, I've talked to Coyote alot. I respect her views.

Of course you do...

You are a dehumanizer of the Palestinian people just like her.

You both believe the natural rights of the Palestinian people to live in most of their homeland is "smoke and mirrors" (Coyote's actual words).

Originally posted by Shusha
And I think Coyote's argument in internally consistent.

Let me see...

America committed a historic "injustice" in the 19th century, a "damning and shameful period in US history" for not allowing chinese people to travel 6254 miles and live in a country as alien as Mars to them but Israel has the right to arrest, shoot and murder refugees born in Ashkelon and Jerusalem, 60 or 40 years ago.

Arguments don't get any more consistent than this...

As consistent as a crumbling building collapsing under its own weight.

Originally posted by Shusha
Actually, she is the person on Team Palestine who I have the most respect for (and she is quite biased for Palestine, which is fine, as I'm biased toward Israel, both of us quite rationally).

I see... people "quite biased for Palestine" and the so-called "Team Palestine" is made up of people who support Israel's right to use "lethal force" against refugees fighting for their natural rights.

With "friends" like these who needs the IDF?

The palestinians by their own actions dehumanise themselves when they target children and unarmed women in their terrorist attacks.

Yes Israel is allowed under international law to arrest and kill terrorists attacking them, not one of these actions is murder as there is no premeditation and it it is done during terrorist attacks or acts of war. Like all Jew haters that dehumanise the Jews you make claims that you cant prove, making you worse than those you are calling on here.

What "natural rights" do illegal immigrants, terrorists and war criminals have then, care to spell them out so we can all see which hymn sheet you are reading from ?

 

[Phoenall]

I'm not ignoring your excellent questions, Shusha, just "saving" them for an appropriate thread : )

For when the original thread is forgotten and you can manipulate them to your hearts content

 

[P F Tinmore]

You are a dehumanizer of the Palestinian people just like her.

You both believe the natural rights of the Palestinian people to live in most of their homeland is "smoke and mirrors" (Coyote's actual words).

On the contrary. I am quite outspoken here about Palestinian rights -- their right to a homeland, their right to sovereignty on territory they lived on for thousands of years, their right to safety and security, their right to access their own holy places.

I just think the Jewish people have the same rights.

The Jews have the same rights to Palestine as the Palestinians?

Remember, the Jews kicked the Palestinians out of Palestine. It must be that superiority complex.

 

[Phoenall]

You are a dehumanizer of the Palestinian people just like her.

You both believe the natural rights of the Palestinian people to live in most of their homeland is "smoke and mirrors" (Coyote's actual words).

On the contrary. I am quite outspoken here about Palestinian rights -- their right to a homeland, their right to sovereignty on territory they lived on for thousands of years, their right to safety and security, their right to access their own holy places.

I just think the Jewish people have the same rights.

The Jews have the same rights to Palestine as the Palestinians?

Remember, the Jews kicked the Palestinians out of Palestine. It must be that superiority complex.

Remember the palestinians were the Jews before the arab muslims were invented, and stayed as such until arafat stole the name from them in the 1960's.

It was the arab league that kicked them out so the world would not see the rape and bloodbath that would follow the invasion on may 14 1948 of arab muslims by arab league soldiers

 

[Shusha]

The Jews have the same rights to Palestine as the Palestinians?

The Jewish Palestinians have the same rights to Palestine that the Arab Palestinians have. Rejecting that simple concept is discrimination based on ethnicity.

 

[Phoenall]

The Jews have the same rights to Palestine as the Palestinians?

The Jewish Palestinians have the same rights to Palestine that the Arab Palestinians have. Rejecting that simple concept is discrimination based on ethnicity.

And tinny cant see that as he still thinks the Jews were wiped out 2000 years ago, leaving palestine for the arab muslims to take over when mo'mad invented them

 

[ForeverYoung436]

You are a dehumanizer of the Palestinian people just like her.

You both believe the natural rights of the Palestinian people to live in most of their homeland is "smoke and mirrors" (Coyote's actual words).

On the contrary. I am quite outspoken here about Palestinian rights -- their right to a homeland, their right to sovereignty on territory they lived on for thousands of years, their right to safety and security, their right to access their own holy places.

I just think the Jewish people have the same rights.

The Jews have the same rights to Palestine as the Palestinians?

Remember, the Jews kicked the Palestinians out of Palestine. It must be that superiority complex.

It's not a superiority complex, but the fact that really the whole land is Eretz Yisroel, according to the Bible. In fact, the Jews were being overly generous in letting the Arabs have any part of it at all!!

 

[montelatici]

Are you seriously claiming that the old testament, a fairy tale to the preponderance of the world's population, gives a bunch of Europeans the right to expropriate the native Muslims and Christians of Palestine?

 

[montelatici]

The Jews have the same rights to Palestine as the Palestinians?

The Jewish Palestinians have the same rights to Palestine that the Arab Palestinians have. Rejecting that simple concept is discrimination based on ethnicity.

But the Zionist Jews were Europeans, not Palestinians.

 

[danielpalos]

our social programs are what turned the US from a relative Third World economy, to our First World economy we have now.