The South Carolina incident & enabling

[Mac1958]

I wonder how many people will agree with this one.

The officer in the South Carolina incident, the one who grabbed the student and tossed her on the floor, clearly broke rules and has to pay the price. From the moment he touched her, he is responsible for everything he did. Period.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this guy, I would essentially be enabling his poor behavior. he would know that someone was covering for him in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Now, at the same time, the girl in the story had several opportunities to simply follow clear & reasonable instructions. If she had simply followed instructions at any of several points in this story, the officer would not have touched her.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this girl, I would essentially be enabling her poor behavior. she would know that someone was covering for her in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Do we agree? Does spinning and deflecting for poor behavior run a clear risk of enabling more in the future?
.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What I saw in the video, Mac, was an officer trained to arrest criminals. The officer was not trained to discipline students and that is where the trouble lies. The school system is using police officers for situations where they are not needed.

The student should have been left in her chair while the teacher asked the principal to send help in escorting the class to the library or another classroom not in use. The student who refused to get up could be left in the classroom for the remainder of the day until her guardian / parent came to take her home.

At that point the principal could decide on the length of suspension (with notification that a repeat offense will result in her being expelled from the school). If the student had attempted to leave the classroom after the other students had left then I would consider the principal had the right to expel her from the school.

You cannot sacrifice the entire classroom for one student who is challenging the authority of the teacher, the principal and in this case, a police officer. The classroom should be a place of order. Not chaos.

 

[Anathema]

The moment she failed to follow the teacher's instructions, she lost her right to be treated as an adult so far as I'm concerned.

Having said thst, I'd have preferred to see her tased instead of wrestled with.

 

[dannyboys]

I wonder how many people will agree with this one.

The officer in the South Carolina incident, the one who grabbed the student and tossed her on the floor, clearly broke rules and has to pay the price. From the moment he touched her, he is responsible for everything he did. Period.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this guy, I would essentially be enabling his poor behavior. he would know that someone was covering for him in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Now, at the same time, the girl in the story had several opportunities to simply follow clear & reasonable instructions. If she had simply followed instructions at any of several points in this story, the officer would not have touched her.

If I said otherwise, if I tried to spin or deflect for this girl, I would essentially be enabling her poor behavior. she would know that someone was covering for her in the future. I would be lying if I denied that.

Do we agree? Does spinning and deflecting for poor behavior run a clear risk of enabling more in the future?
.

Fields had the legal authority to use whatever force he deemed necessary to make an arrest. She had broken the law. Period.
How's this one for attempting to 'spin' in order to garner sympathy for the girl: The MSM claimed the poor girl had just lost her mother and grandmother so really who could not understand how devastated she was? Which explains why she just sort of 'lost it' due to her grief.
Turns out of course the girl's mother and grandmother are very much alive.
The mother couldn't handle the girl and had her placed in foster care where of course she would not listen to the foster parents so they got rid of her.
The LIB controlled MSM also claimed "BIG MIKE" was just a "gentle giant".
The LIB controlled MSM also claimed Zimmerman was a racist murderer and Trayvon was a little twelve year old (remember the first photos MSNBC showed of Trayvon?) who Zimmerman premeditatedly stalked and murdered just for fun?
And now we have a negro bitch Pros. in Baltimore who is going to be looking for another career after the LEO's settle for millions in wrongful dismissal and criminal charges are settled.

 

[Auld Phart]

 

[dannyboys]

What I saw in the video, Mac, was an officer trained to arrest criminals. The officer was not trained to discipline students and that is where the trouble lies. The school system is using police officers for situations where they are not needed.

The student should have been left in her chair while the teacher asked the principal to send help in escorting the class to the library or another classroom not in use. The student who refused to get up could be left in the classroom for the remainder of the day until her guardian / parent came to take her home.

At that point the principal could decide on the length of suspension (with notification that a repeat offense will result in her being expelled from the school). If the student had attempted to leave the classroom after the other students had left then I would consider the principal had the right to expel her from the school.

You cannot sacrifice the entire classroom for one student who is challenging the authority of the teacher, the principal and in this case, a police officer. The classroom should be a place of order. Not chaos.

But you see by allowing one student to be so disruptive the entire class must be removed from her instead of the other way around is in essence of sacrificing the entire classroom.
Our society is not based on one person's illegal behavior being allowed to disrupt others. That' s allowing anarchy.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The moment she failed to follow the teacher's instructions, she lost her right to be treated as an adult so far as I'm concerned.

Having said thst, I'd have preferred to see her tased instead of wrestled with.

I do not believe that is the right way to handle the situation. It's a disciplinary matter. If she refuses to comply with the authorities at her school? She is either suspended (given grace) or expelled. She didn't break the law. She broke the school rules. There is a difference.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What I saw in the video, Mac, was an officer trained to arrest criminals. The officer was not trained to discipline students and that is where the trouble lies. The school system is using police officers for situations where they are not needed.

The student should have been left in her chair while the teacher asked the principal to send help in escorting the class to the library or another classroom not in use. The student who refused to get up could be left in the classroom for the remainder of the day until her guardian / parent came to take her home.

At that point the principal could decide on the length of suspension (with notification that a repeat offense will result in her being expelled from the school). If the student had attempted to leave the classroom after the other students had left then I would consider the principal had the right to expel her from the school.

You cannot sacrifice the entire classroom for one student who is challenging the authority of the teacher, the principal and in this case, a police officer. The classroom should be a place of order. Not chaos.

But you see by allowing one student to be so disruptive the entire class must be removed from her instead of the other way around is in essence of sacrificing the entire classroom.
Our society is not based on one person's illegal behavior being allowed to disrupt others. That' s allowing anarchy.

Danny, if you'll read my reply it would only happen once. Do you believe other students would follow her example if they see she never returns to school? Are they there to learn or to be expelled? I believe they would take note of what happened and realize it does not work. As it stands now? It's not only working, it has become profitable.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What I saw in the video, Mac, was an officer trained to arrest criminals. The officer was not trained to discipline students and that is where the trouble lies. The school system is using police officers for situations where they are not needed.

The student should have been left in her chair while the teacher asked the principal to send help in escorting the class to the library or another classroom not in use. The student who refused to get up could be left in the classroom for the remainder of the day until her guardian / parent came to take her home.

At that point the principal could decide on the length of suspension (with notification that a repeat offense will result in her being expelled from the school). If the student had attempted to leave the classroom after the other students had left then I would consider the principal had the right to expel her from the school.

You cannot sacrifice the entire classroom for one student who is challenging the authority of the teacher, the principal and in this case, a police officer. The classroom should be a place of order. Not chaos.

But you see by allowing one student to be so disruptive the entire class must be removed from her instead of the other way around is in essence of sacrificing the entire classroom.
Our society is not based on one person's illegal behavior being allowed to disrupt others. That' s allowing anarchy.

I agree. That is why I suggested removing the class (with their camera phones). Isolate her, contact guardian that she has been suspended (or expelled) and let the students take notice that she is no longer on school property. It's a very discreet, efficient way to handle the matter.
No more anarchy.

 

[defcon4]

This whole thing is blown out of proportion. Escalating imagined cops vs. people of color. The kid was unruly, faculty could not handle her therefore they called the resource officer to remove her from class. She did not follow lawful orders issued by authorities (faculty as authority in the school and police officer as authority at large) The officer tried to remove her from class and after she struck the officer she got jerked out of the chair and slammed to the floor during a resisting "arrest." I do not understand what the problem is.

 

[Anathema]

I do not believe that is the right way to handle the situation. It's a disciplinary matter. If she refuses to comply with the authorities at her school? She is either suspended (given grace) or expelled. She didn't break the law. She broke the school rules. There is a difference.

Once ahe moves beyond the ability of the school to discipline and seriously disrupted the class she has now met the basic standard for being a public nuisance, which us something POLICE deal with. Besides, I am totally in favir of ehat the HS I went to 20+ years ago did..... you dealt with the cops first, then internal school discipline second for any sort of disruption or violent event.

 

[rightwinger]

It was an overreaction from a security officer who clearly lost his temper. The girl was not a threat to the officer or other classmates. Time was on the side of the officer

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

This whole thing is blown out of proportion. Escalating imagined cops vs. people of color. The kid was unruly, faculty could not handle her therefore they called the resource officer to remove her from class. She did not follow lawful orders issued by authorities (faculty as authority in the school and police officer as authority at large) The officer tried to remove her from class and after she struck the officer she got jerked out of the chair and slammed to the floor during a resisting "arrest." I do not understand what the problem is.

She should not have been placed under arrest. She didn't commit a crime. She disobeyed school authorities. The proper response it to suspend or expel. The principal decides.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I do not believe that is the right way to handle the situation. It's a disciplinary matter. If she refuses to comply with the authorities at her school? She is either suspended (given grace) or expelled. She didn't break the law. She broke the school rules. There is a difference.

Once ahe moves beyond the ability of the school to discipline and seriously disrupted the class she has now met the basic standard for being a public nuisance, which us something POLICE deal with. Besides, I am totally in favir of ehat the HS I went to 20+ years ago did..... you dealt with the cops first, then internal school discipline second for any sort of disruption or violent event.

I suppose you might be able to make the case for it but why? Why give this girl the publicity and lawsuit she is hoping for? What they have now is a story that isn't going to go away for some time (if ever). It was a bad judgment call by all who were involved. imo.

 

[Anathema]

She should not have been placed under arrest. She didn't commit a crime. She disobeyed school authorities. The proper response it to suspend or expel. The principal decides.

The school authorities proved unwilling or unable to enforce any sort of discipline on her.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

It was an overreaction from a security officer who clearly lost his temper. The girl was not a threat to the officer or other classmates. Time was on the side of the officer

I agree with everything you have said with one exception, R.W.. She is a threat to the authority at that school because she refused to comply with school rules even when asked to put the phone away. The only recourse the principal has is to set an example and expel her. If there were any extenuating circumstances perhaps a very long suspension and permission to return to school with the agreement that she won't ever do it again.

 

[defcon4]

This whole thing is blown out of proportion. Escalating imagined cops vs. people of color. The kid was unruly, faculty could not handle her therefore they called the resource officer to remove her from class. She did not follow lawful orders issued by authorities (faculty as authority in the school and police officer as authority at large) The officer tried to remove her from class and after she struck the officer she got jerked out of the chair and slammed to the floor during a resisting "arrest." I do not understand what the problem is.

She should not have been placed under arrest. She didn't commit a crime. She disobeyed school authorities. The proper response it to suspend or expel. The principal decides.

She struck the officer. Last time I checked it was a crime. Not following lawful orders of a police officer is a misdemeanor (the degree is regulated state by state)

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

She should not have been placed under arrest. She didn't commit a crime. She disobeyed school authorities. The proper response it to suspend or expel. The principal decides.

The school authorities proved unwilling or unable to enforce any sort of discipline on her.

Bingo.

Now tell me who is at fault again?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

This whole thing is blown out of proportion. Escalating imagined cops vs. people of color. The kid was unruly, faculty could not handle her therefore they called the resource officer to remove her from class. She did not follow lawful orders issued by authorities (faculty as authority in the school and police officer as authority at large) The officer tried to remove her from class and after she struck the officer she got jerked out of the chair and slammed to the floor during a resisting "arrest." I do not understand what the problem is.

She should not have been placed under arrest. She didn't commit a crime. She disobeyed school authorities. The proper response it to suspend or expel. The principal decides.

She struck the officer. Last time I checked it was a crime. Not following lawful orders of a police officer is a misdemeanor (the degree is regulated state by state)

There should not have been an officer in the room. It is a matter of making a phone call to the guardian / parent and telling them their daughter has just been expelled. Come pick her up. Class continues in another room while she is escorted off school property.

When the parent arrives? The principal, teacher can escort her with parent off school property.

 

[Anathema]

I suppose you might be able to make the case for it but why? Why give this girl the publicity and lawsuit she is hoping for? What they have now is a story that isn't going to go away for some time (if ever). It was a bad judgment call by all who were involved. imo.

The school authorities were unable or unwilling to enforce any sort of authority over her. That leaves them with the choice to let her get away with it or call the cops. They made the right decision in my mind.

As for the Legal side, that's a matter of our Judicial system fuck-ups in not throwing out these ridiculous cases.