Comrade
Senior Member
Originally posted by Bry
Okay, Comrade, for the sake of a laugh, why don't you walk me through those events and pronouncements that I lived and listened to.
Spain is in Afganistan. Don't you remember the plane crash in Turkey that killed fifty some Spanish officers in Turkey? They were in route from Afganistan.
How can you act so self-righteous and still be wrong?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/enduring-freedom_orbat-03.htm
This is the most recent OOB (Order of Battle) in Afghanistan as far as I've been able to research, and there ARE NO SPANISH TROOPS THERE TODAY, can you see that clearly now?
We can agree that Spanish troops died in a crash over Turkey in May of 2003 while returning home from Afghanistan. What matters in this discussion is the present so please join me here.
It is stupid to talk about the lack of funds that a president elect has not yet had the chance to pour into the war in terror.
No its not, we know Spanish monetary support today is nil and there will be little reason for a leftist Spain support any proxy US effort in another nation while the US remains at the center-right.
Everything that was pronounced in the "left" media proved to be accurate. The same can not be said of Aznar's government. If you think it's normal for the president to be making phone calls to news papers to tell them what information they should or should not publish, you and I probably have deological differences more basic than what has or has not happened in Spain.
No I dont think its normal, in fact the very notion of Aznar attempting to lean on these two particular newspapers is ludicrous.
Lets go back to your own link about this:
El Pais, which was preparing a special edition on the attacks, received several calls directly from Aznar, its reporters confirmed. The editor of the Catalan-based paper El Periodico said Aznar called twice. Aznar "courteously cautioned me not to be mistaken. ETA was responsible," the editor, Antonio Franco, wrote in an editorial Tuesday.
Do you think "Several reporters" at El Pais were all individually contacted, part of some conference call, or is this just a rumor without any real credible source?
Franco is at least a name behind the claim. Being cautioned by Aznar is spun as some sort of threat, clearly. Since this is revealed on Tuesday after Aznar was actually voted out its one of two things:
1. A bone-chilling close call with Aznar who threatened this paper in no uncertain terms not to mistake Al-Qaida involvment.
2. Tying up the ongoing campaign to advance the lies of the Aznar government, a propaganda effort now making personal allegations into Aznar while he's down and defeated. It's good print for the left in power isn't it?
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/langu...news.yahoo.com/040316/202/3p843.html&lp=fr_en
Rough translation:
El Periodico had decided to change its title into evoking the Al Qaïda claim, "in spite owing to the fact that I continued to think that a chief of government could not allow himself to take the risk to be mistaken on such a subject in a conversation with a newspaper editor, and while thinking of ridiculous and to the international damage carried in Spain if what the chief of the government said on the ETA was not true", Antonio Franco adds.
This almost sounds like Franco was watching out for Aznar, but you and I know better, dont we? Both papers set out to gut Aznar from day 1, did they not?
You have two sources from the two most popular left newspapers, you with me?
Copy and paste this link to your browser for Aljazeerah's take on both.
"ttp://aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2003%20News%20archives/November/30n/Spanish%20media%20question%20high%20price%20being%20paid%20in%20Iraq.htm"
What are we doing over there in the face of opposition from the majority of the Spanish population and all political parties save for the (ruling) Popular Party? asked Catalan daily El Periodico.
El Pais, Spains most widely read daily, provided a blunt editorial entitled: Spain is paying a high price for the decision of Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar to commit a 1,300-strong force to Iraq.
As for what Aznar said in public, before, you say, the phone calls were made to newspapers, He was distincly and inequivocably linking the attacks to ETA. I heard the speech myself, in Spanish. If you want to debate the exact content of the speech, feel free to present the text in its entirety. Until you are able to do that, your insinuations about the voracity of what I know I heard and lived are uninteresting.
Well youve been duped. Many also believe they heard Bush distinctly and unequivocally call Iraq a Clear and Present danger, and have read way too much left propaganda to even check the text of the SOTU itself.
So heres the text as of Anzar one and only public statement on the day of the bombing:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3503184.stm
No ETA in there.
The whole text is entirely without conjecture either way. If you still somehow feel this is not accurate then you deny left propaganda has altered your perceptions. Again, this text is on record, and is more credible by far than any source you have provided..
Ive already gone into detail on the timeline on the other thread here:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4220