The Problem With keynesian economics

[expat_panama]

...we are living through the end result of 30 years of Republican capitalism...

Huh.

The first 25 were pretty good but imho that Pelosi/Obama part since '07 was not so hot...

 

[usmcstinger]

The Basic Premise of Keynesian economics is that you Spend money when the Economy is Down to Stimulate it, Then Make cuts when the Economy is up.

It's 2 Sides of a Coin. The Problem is the Keynesian are only Keynesian when the Economy is down. When it is Up they forget about the Rules of Keynesian Economics and Continue to Spend more than we have instead of Making cuts.

We never cut

Keynesian Economics has never turned a country's Economy around. It is a Theory and to many just a cult.

Socialist talking points, can't change the fact that it does not work. Obama and people like you try failed policies and expect a different outcome.-----

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. we are living through the end result of 30 years of Republican capitalism.

thanks guys

Republican Capitalism?? Fanny, Freddie, Federal Reserve, FHA,CRA, FDIC, SS, Medicaid, Medicare, Schip, WIC, VA, Welfare, $16 trillion government debt, stimulus, QE1, QE2, bailouts,

Thats Republican capitalism only to a very very low IQ liberal.

 

[Rshermr]

. we are living through the end result of 30 years of Republican capitalism.

thanks guys

Republican Capitalism?? Fanny, Freddie, Federal Reserve, FHA,CRA, FDIC, SS, Medicaid, Medicare, Schip, WIC, VA, Welfare, $16 trillion government debt, stimulus, QE1, QE2, bailouts,

Thats Republican capitalism only to a very very low IQ liberal.

Record mergers and acquisitions, massive multi-national corporations, Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, the great republican recession of 2007-2008.

Only great republican leadership has been able to cause the greatest recessions of the past century. Repubs, and tea partiers like ed, just spend their time trying to rewrite history.

 

[Rshermr]

. we are living through the end result of 30 years of Republican capitalism.

thanks guys

Republican Capitalism?? Fanny, Freddie, Federal Reserve, FHA,CRA, FDIC, SS, Medicaid, Medicare, Schip, WIC, VA, Welfare, $16 trillion government debt, stimulus, QE1, QE2, bailouts,

Thats Republican capitalism only to a very very low IQ liberal.

So, relative to your comment of the $16T national debt you blame on dems, lets see who ran that up, ed, me boy:

Pres Beginning debt Ending debt Debt for President

Reagan 1.0TT 2,95T 1.95T
Bush 1 2.95T 4.54T 1.59T 4 Years
Clinton 4.65T 5.94T 1.29T
Bush 2 5.94T 12.31T 6.37T
Obama 12.31T 15.13T 2.82T 2 Years

So, not counting the first T that was attributable to a large number of presidents, the national debt is made up of $4.11T from Democratic Presidents, and 9.48T from Republican Presidents.
Funny how ed tells folks that the national debt is a democratic thing.

Then you mentioned the bailout. I assume you are talking about the auto industry, as even you should know that the bank bailout (TARP) was done during the prior republican administration. That is a really interesting inference. The car companies, including Ford, said without it they would be gone. And I am sure that you will say they should have gone through bankruptcy. But, you see, ed, there were no buyers. So you want to BLAME Obama for saving the auto makers??? Oh yeah, you are a tea party mouthpiece.

 

[itfitzme]

the private market caused the great deppression and housing buuble u tool

you lack the brains to know you operate in complete liberal ignorance.

Bernanke is the worlds expert on the Great Depression. He said to Friedman, "You're right, we[The Fed] did it [caused the Great Depression.]"

Yes, by staying on the gold standard for too long.

 

[bripat9643]

The Basic Premise of Keynesian economics is that you Spend money when the Economy is Down to Stimulate it, Then Make cuts when the Economy is up.

It's 2 Sides of a Coin. The Problem is the Keynesian are only Keynesian when the Economy is down. When it is Up they forget about the Rules of Keynesian Economics and Continue to Spend more than we have instead of Making cuts.

We never cut

The other problem with Keynesian economics is that it doesn't work. We spent a trainload of money and it didn't make a dent in the recession.

 

[itfitzme]

The Basic Premise of Keynesian economics is that you Spend money when the Economy is Down to Stimulate it, Then Make cuts when the Economy is up.

It's 2 Sides of a Coin. The Problem is the Keynesian are only Keynesian when the Economy is down. When it is Up they forget about the Rules of Keynesian Economics and Continue to Spend more than we have instead of Making cuts.

We never cut

The other problem with Keynesian economics is that it doesn't work. We spent a trainload of money and it didn't make a dent in the recession.

What ever are you talking about?

Bush II did a great job with it, lowering taxes and increasing spending which drove investments in MBS and a housing bubble.

 

[Widdekind]

What ever are you talking about?

Bush II did a great job with it, lowering taxes and increasing spending which drove investments in MBS and a housing bubble.

Fiscal stimulus means Government, or Public, investment, by borrowing money (G-T > 0). Did Government borrow, to invest into housing markets?

Fannie-Mae, backed by the US Government (and low centrally-set interest-rates), lent into housing markets; and then was bailed out. Even if you accept that the bail-out represents, ultimately, the US Government borrowing, into deficits, to dump money into mortgage markets; then, even so, that would be Government speculating, not Government investing.

Fiscal stimulus = Public investing,
!= Public speculation (on asset price bubbles)

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

the private market caused the great deppression and housing buuble u tool

you lack the brains to know you operate in complete liberal ignorance.

Bernanke is the worlds expert on the Great Depression. He said to Friedman, "You're right, we[The Fed] did it [caused the Great Depression.]"

Yes, by staying on the gold standard for too long.

Do you think thats what Bernanke really meant? If you do you're being a goofy liberal again.
What he meant was we (the Fed) did it by not following the rules of the gold standard which required them to maintain the money supply rather than let it drop by 1/3 as the banks failed.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. we are living through the end result of 30 years of Republican capitalism.

thanks guys

Republican Capitalism?? Fanny, Freddie, Federal Reserve, FHA,CRA, FDIC, SS, Medicaid, Medicare, Schip, WIC, VA, Welfare, $16 trillion government debt, stimulus, QE1, QE2, bailouts,

Thats Republican capitalism only to a very very low IQ liberal.

Record mergers and acquisitions, massive multi-national corporations, Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, the great republican recession of 2007-2008.

Only great republican leadership has been able to cause the greatest recessions of the past century. Repubs, and tea partiers like ed, just spend their time trying to rewrite history.

Republican Capitalism?? Fanny, Freddie, Federal Reserve, FHA,CRA, FDIC, SS, Medicaid, Medicare, Schip, WIC, VA, Welfare, $16 trillion government debt, stimulus, QE1, QE2, bailouts,

 

[usmcstinger]

The real reason the stimulus failed is the money went to prop up state budgets instead of being spent in a way that would have helped.

Why do you continue to wallow in this nonsense? Do you get some kind of perverse pleasure from being wrong?

The stimulus was not a failure. It saved jobs and kept the economy from total collapse.

According to a number of reliable sources, the stimulus was a failure.

Read, listen and learn:
CBS Says White House Is Fudging Stimulus Jobs Numbers | NewsBusters.org


States playing fast and loose with education jobs money - Sep. 20, 2010

 

[Lucid_Gumption]

you lack the brains to know you operate in complete liberal ignorance.

Bernanke is the worlds expert on the Great Depression. He said to Friedman, "You're right, we[The Fed] did it [caused the Great Depression.]"

Yes, by staying on the gold standard for too long.

Do you think thats what Bernanke really meant? If you do you're being a goofy liberal again.
What he meant was we (the Fed) did it by not following the rules of the gold standard which required them to maintain the money supply rather than let it drop by 1/3 as the banks failed.

What caused the Great Depression? The Great Depression was 100% caused by the Federal Reserve. In the mid 1920s, the Federal Reserve used its cartel power to set interest rates at a really low level. This caused inflation and an economic boom. Politically-connected insiders knew that an economic boom was being created. At the start of the boom, they loaded up and debt and bought assets before inflation set in.
The Great Depression is blamed on "greedy speculators". With artificially low interest rates, it made sense to borrow and buy assets. If interest rates are 2% and inflation is 10%, then borrowing to invest is sensible. Many farmers and small business owners were forced to borrow to expand, to keep up with their competition.
The "greedy speculators" were acting independently in the "free market". The Federal Reserve and negative interest rates were the real culprit. The speculators were following the false signal the Federal Reserve was sending via artificially cheap interest rates.

 

[DSGE]

you lack the brains to know you operate in complete liberal ignorance.

Bernanke is the worlds expert on the Great Depression. He said to Friedman, "You're right, we[The Fed] did it [caused the Great Depression.]"

Yes, by staying on the gold standard for too long.

Do you think thats what Bernanke really meant? If you do you're being a goofy liberal again.
What he meant was we (the Fed) did it by not following the rules of the gold standard which required them to maintain the money supply rather than let it drop by 1/3 as the banks failed.

How about you stop saying dumb shit for a minute and actually take the time to read A Monetary History of the United States, huh?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yes, by staying on the gold standard for too long.

Do you think thats what Bernanke really meant? If you do you're being a goofy liberal again.
What he meant was we (the Fed) did it by not following the rules of the gold standard which required them to maintain the money supply rather than let it drop by 1/3 as the banks failed.

How about you stop saying dumb shit for a minute and actually take the time to read A Monetary History of the United States, huh?

Friedmans position was the the Fed caused the depression by failing to follow the rules of the gold standard in place at the time and thus allowed the money supply to shrink by 1/3.

If this is a misrepresentation of Friedmans position I will pay you $10,000. Bet, or admit you should wait till college to comment.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yes, by staying on the gold standard for too long.

Do you think thats what Bernanke really meant? If you do you're being a goofy liberal again.
What he meant was we (the Fed) did it by not following the rules of the gold standard which required them to maintain the money supply rather than let it drop by 1/3 as the banks failed.

What caused the Great Depression? The Great Depression was 100% caused by the Federal Reserve. In the mid 1920s, the Federal Reserve used its cartel power to set interest rates at a really low level. This caused inflation and an economic boom. Politically-connected insiders knew that an economic boom was being created. At the start of the boom, they loaded up and debt and bought assets before inflation set in.
The Great Depression is blamed on "greedy speculators". With artificially low interest rates, it made sense to borrow and buy assets. If interest rates are 2% and inflation is 10%, then borrowing to invest is sensible. Many farmers and small business owners were forced to borrow to expand, to keep up with their competition.
The "greedy speculators" were acting independently in the "free market". The Federal Reserve and negative interest rates were the real culprit. The speculators were following the false signal the Federal Reserve was sending via artificially cheap interest rates.

what you say is mostly true but you have described a Fed boom, the Depression was caused by the Fed reaction to the bust that followed and prolonged by FDR's left wing policies not the least of which was an open hostility to business that caused them to withdraw.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The stimulus was not a failure.

of course it was a failure. Economic progress from the stone age to here came from private sector innovations. A liberal government stimulus can only impede the process because liberal bureaucrats have no idea where on earth to spend money for economic growth.

The USSR and Solyndra are perfect examples for you to think about.

A recession or depression is the time it takes for the free market to correct the distortions liberal government has caused. If liberal government keeps distorting the economy with stimulus programs it only prolongs the recession or depression.

Now you know why the Great Depression lasted so long. If BO can keep this depression going for 10 years he will be the supreme liberal hero since liberalism is based on pure ignorance.

 

[DSGE]

Do you think thats what Bernanke really meant? If you do you're being a goofy liberal again.
What he meant was we (the Fed) did it by not following the rules of the gold standard which required them to maintain the money supply rather than let it drop by 1/3 as the banks failed.

How about you stop saying dumb shit for a minute and actually take the time to read A Monetary History of the United States, huh?

Friedmans position was the the Fed caused the depression by failing to follow the rules of the gold standard in place at the time and thus allowed the money supply to shrink by 1/3.

See you keep throwing that "failing to follow the rules" bit in there. It just plain doesn't make sense if you stop and think for half a second (I know, asking a bit much from you). It was the broader monetary aggregates that fell by 1/3. The monetary base, which is what the gold standard is about, did not fall by 1/3. It fell about 6% between late 1929 and late 1930, but then rose quickly. In order to prevent broad money from collapsing, the Fed must have printed extremely large quantities of base money, breaking the rules of the gold standard. So what you're saying makes no god damn sense. But I've come to expect that.

If this is a misrepresentation of Friedmans position I will pay you $10,000. Bet, or admit you should wait till college to comment.

Great, who's arbitrating the bet? Tell them to read A Monetary History of the United States by Friedman & Schwartz, and then give me my $10,000.

 

[DSGE]

Also, Edward, don't you think easing monetary policy just creates liberal bubbles and inflation? To prevent broad money from collapsing the Fed would have had to have massively ramped up the rate at which they print money. Aren't you completely against that?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

See you keep throwing that "failing to follow the rules" bit in there.

dear, how slow are you??. I didn't say that, Friedman said that!! I take it since you have changed from me to Friedman you are conceding that Friedman did indeed say that the Fed failed to follow the rules by allowing the money supply to shrink by 1/3.

Try to follow more; so you have also agreed then that when Bernanke said to Friedman, "you're right, we did it", he was agreeing with Friedman.

Great, who's arbitrating the bet? Tell them to read A Monetary History of the United States by Friedman & Schwartz, and then give me my $10,000.

dear, Friedman's exact words were, " the rules in place at the time".