The Problem With Christian Nationalism

[C_Clayton_Jones]

My cause is that we are a nation with borders, language and culture. Yours is of globalism. There is no answer for so many ways of living. Destroying the traditional marriage to attain the attempt of doing that is our demise.

Nonsense.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Well, they want to trash the First Amendment

The Establishment Clause in particular.

 

[whitehall]

More whining from the ultra left? The Founding Fathers thought freedom of religion was so important that they addressed it in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. If you happen to be Christian and love your Country and maybe served your Country, the left brands you as a "Christian Nationalist" and a freaking Nazi these days. These people on the left are going crazy. Maybe it's the Covid vaccines.

 

[Rigby5]

Why not, she represents her people well.

Catholics and Mormons belong to cult religions.

All religions by definition are "cults".
They are not based on some objective facts, but arbitrary personal beliefs passed by others with ardent beliefs.
That not only is likely to be wrong, but clearly has to lead to religious wars that are totally useless.
And even worse is that religions tend to try to remain the same, based on written commandments, so then can not improve over time, like the rest of society tries to do.
Imagine if we were still stuck under the Old Testament, with slavery, polygamy, human sacrifice, etc.?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

More whining from the ultra left? The Founding Fathers thought freedom of religion was so important that they addressed it in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. If you happen to be Christian and love your Country and maybe served your Country, the left brands you as a "Christian Nationalist" and a freaking Nazi these days. These people on the left are going crazy. Maybe it's the Covid vaccines.

The Christo-fascist right is among the most dangerous components of conservatism.

 

[Rigby5]

Not a surprise since we were founded as a Christian nation.

Wrong.
The Founders were Deists mostly, which is not really Christian.
Deists say they do not and can not know who God is and imply God could not have a "son".

 

[g5000]

In 1784, the Virginia House of delegate introduced a bill which, among other things, would force every Virginian to pay a tax to support the Christian religion:

Resolved, that it is the opinion of this committee, That the people of this Commonwealth, according to their respectful abilities, ought to pay a moderate tax or contribution, annually, for the support of the christian religion, or of some christian church, denomination or communion of christians, or of some form of christian worship.

Tax on Religion; an excerpt from the Journal of the House of Delegates (1784) - Encyclopedia Virginia

— page 18 — Journal of the House of Delegates (1784—1785), Page 18 THURSDAY, November 11, 1784. […] A memorial of a committee of sundry Baptists Associations, assembled at Dover meeting-house, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, that they have still reason to complain of several...

encyclopediavirginia.org

The intent of the tax was to help pay the salaries of teachers of the Christian religion.

James Madison rose to oppose the tax as it violated the Virginia Bill of Rights which forbade the establishment of religion.

He wrote a Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments which succeeded in convincing the House of Delegates not to pass the bill.

Because we hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, “that Religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence."

 

[g5000]

Wrong.
The Founders were Deists mostly, which is not really Christian.
Deists say they do not and can not know who God is and imply God could not have a "son".

I would not say mostly deists. Most of them were Protestants.

 

[Rigby5]

still better than the socialist nightmare you want,,

You just do not know what "socialism" is.
All families, tribes, clubs, HOAs, or any human organization is always "socialist" by nature, human nature, because human nature is socialist.

 

[g5000]

More whining from the ultra left? The Founding Fathers thought freedom of religion was so important that they addressed it in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. If you happen to be Christian and love your Country and maybe served your Country, the left brands you as a "Christian Nationalist" and a freaking Nazi these days. These people on the left are going crazy. Maybe it's the Covid vaccines.

The only people who brand anyone a Christian Nationalist are the Christian Nationalists themselves, mm-kay?

"We need to be the party of nationalism and I’m a Christian, and I say it proudly, we should be Christian nationalists.” - Marjorie Taylor Greene

 

[progressive hunter]

You just do not know what "socialism" is.
All families, tribes, clubs, HOAs, or any human organization is always "socialist" by nature, human nature, because human nature is socialist.

but not governments,,,
and as history has shown us, socialism at that level always ends up in mass deaths,,

thanks for stopping by,,

 

[Rigby5]

the one MTG is trying to stop,,

The ONLY parts of the US that are any good are the socialist parts, like building the interstate highways, universal utilities, public education, good infrastructure for defense, crime prevention, fire fighting, etc.

 

[Rigby5]

Yep.

We were founded as a white Christian nation. The Founding Fathers came from Europe which was by far predominately Christian.

The Founding Fathers LEFT Europe because of religious fanaticism, like Inquisitions, Crusades, abuse of Quakers, abuse of Pilgrims, etc.
The US was actually founded almost entirely on Native American ideas of freedom, individual liberty, confederation of states, etc.
Read up on the Iroquois Federation of 7 nations.

 

[g5000]

the one MTG is trying to stop,,

No, tell me very specifically what socialist nightmare I want, coward.

 

[g5000]

The Founding Fathers LEFT Europe because of religious fanaticism, like Inquisitions, Crusades, abuse of Quakers, abuse of Pilgrims, etc.
The US was actually founded almost entirely on Native American ideas of freedom, individual liberty, confederation of states, etc.
Read up on the Iroquois Federation of 7 nations.

Um...no.

The part about fleeing religious persecution is true. The founding on Native American ideas...no.


The settlers who established themselves on the shores of New England all belonged to the more independent classes of their native country. Their union on the soil of America at once presented the singular phenomenon of a society containing neither lords nor common people, and we may almost say neither rich nor poor. These men possessed, in proportion to their number, a greater mass of intelligence than is to be found in any European nation of our own time All, perhaps without a single exception, had received a good education, and many of them were known in Europe for their talents and their acquirements. The other colonies had been founded by adventurers without families; the immigrants of New England brought with them the best elements of order and morality; they landed on the desert coast accompanied by their wives and children. But what especially distinguished them from all others was the aim of their undertaking. They had not been obliged by necessity to leave their country; the social position they abandoned was one to be regretted, and their means of subsistence were certain. Nor did they cross the Atlantic to improve their situation or to increase their wealth; it was a purely intellectual craving that called them from the comforts of their former homes; and in facing the inevitable . sufferings of exile their object was the triumph of an idea.

The immigrants, or, as they deservedly styled themselves, the Pilgrims, belonged to that English sect the austerity of whose principles had acquired for them the name of Puritans. Puritanism was not merely a religious doctrine, but corresponded in many points with the most absolute democratic and republican theories. It was this tendency that had aroused its most dangerous adversaries. Persecuted by the government of the mother country, and disgusted by the habits of a society which the rigor of their own principles condemned, the Puritans went forth to seek some rude and unfrequented part of the world where they could live according to their own opinions and worship God in freedom.

Tocqueville: Book I Chapter 2

 

[progressive hunter]

The ONLY parts of the US that are any good are the socialist parts, like building the interstate highways, universal utilities, public education, good infrastructure for defense, crime prevention, fire fighting, etc.

schools suck, roads are shit and infrastructure is a state issue not a fed one, crime is off the charts utilities are so expensive poor people will always be poor or freeze to death,,
anymore stupid comparisons you would like to make??

and those are not socialist anyway, they are a social compact

 

[Rigby5]

I would not say mostly deists. Most of them were Protestants.

And Protestants want to personally define their view of God, since they reject the imposed centeralized imposition of the Catholic Church.
They are Protestant out of "protest", and want reform, which is not based on a mythically imbued single doctrine.
That can only imply that all religious doctrine if wrong because it is fallible, and therefore there can be no divine intervention ensuring that religious doctrine is correct.
Which questions the involvement of any supernatural deity at all.

 

[g5000]

And Protestants want to personally define their view of God, since they reject the imposed centeralized imposition of the Catholic Church.
They are Protestant out of "protest", and want reform, which is not based on a mythically imbued single doctrine.
That can only imply that all religious doctrine if wrong because it is fallible, and therefore there can be no divine intervention ensuring that religious doctrine is correct.
Which questions the involvement of any supernatural deity at all.

No matter how hard you try to twist yourself, Protestantism is not Deism. Not even close.

The "protest" part of Protestantism was against the Catholic Church's doctrines.

Protestantism is CHRISTianity. Deism is not.

Most of our Founders were followers of Christ.

 

[Rigby5]

but not governments,,,
and as history has shown us, socialism at that level always ends up in mass deaths,,

thanks for stopping by,,

Wrong.
Socialism NEVER ends up with mass deaths.
Stalin and Lenin were supported by the Germans, in order to take Russia out of WWI.
They were not at all "socialists", and were instead totally and completely extreme capitalists, working entirely on the profit motive.
Government by definition is a collective and communal cooperation for a more efficient society.
Which is and will always be socialist.
The only time government is bad is when it is not collective or communal, but then it is a capitalist dictatorship and not socialist.

 

[The Original Tree]

There are some Nazi-adjacent politicians these days claiming they are "Christian Nationalists".

So what is Christian Nationalism, you may be wondering.

Well, they want to trash the First Amendment and have our federal government declare we are a Christian nation.

In the same way White Nationalists want a white nation.

Marjorie Taylor Greene has declared herself a CN. I don't know what Bible she has which allows for an open marriage, though. I don't know what Bible she has which sanctions bearing false witness against others.

Maybe she ripped out a few pages here and there. I don't know.

The problem with Christian Nationalism is, which brand of Christianity will we be? I certainly don't want to be MTG's brand!

In 1802, the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut wrote to Founder Thomas Jefferson to tell him of their plight. The official state religion of Connecticut was Protestant Calvinism. The Baptists felt their religious freedom was being impinged upon.

Jefferson's response letter contained the immortal words "separation of church and state" to describe the intent of the First Amendment's establishment clause.

So if we were to toss out the Bill of Rights and force everyone to believe what they are told to believe, which belief would that be?


Would it be Catholic integralism? They are the largest Christian denomination in America.

But then MTG believes Catholics work for Satan.

So you see the problem.

Integralism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Weren't you taught that playing Globalist Mr. Twister with Nazis like Klaus Schwab, George Soros, and Bill Gates would only lead to you loving Hairy Man Ass & Genital Mutilation?
Stop playing with globalists or you will go to Hell.