The Pope And Hypocrisy

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by NATO AIR, Apr 5, 2005.

  1. NATO AIR
    Offline

    NATO AIR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,275
    Thanks Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    USS Abraham Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +282
    (not what you think it is- a criticism of the Pope)
    Instead a damning reminder of our inaction to the state sponsored terrorism of Sudan

     
  2. HorhayAtAMD
    Offline

    HorhayAtAMD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    309
    Thanks Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Canada, eh!
    Ratings:
    +31
    I was watching the special features on Blackhawk Down the other day and came to the unfortunate conclusion that the warlords in Somalia didn't just manage to "drive" the Americans out of Somalia, they successfully kept the world out of the Sudan 10 years later. I would like to believe that the US would have reacted much much quicker in the Sudan had it not been for the terrible experience in Somalia. It was so sad to see the crowds go from cheering US troops to tearing them apart because a few Somalis got caught in a crossfire between the militia and the military. Instead of seeing the greater good, all they saw (thanks also to an immense amount of propoganda) was that the US was the sole cause for their misfortune. They interviewed some of the militia men in that documentary and one guy was very proud that they managed to drive the Americans out of their country. As the camera panned around to show the absolute poverty and starvation around the guy, I thought: wow, you sure showed the US!!

    Anyway, it is a very sad situation in Darfur but considering the complete lack of appreciation (to put it mildly) shown to international peace keeping forces in the past, it isn't at all surprising that no one is rushing over there now. The people crying for international aid are as likely as not to be killing peace keepers after one or two "children" (carrying AK47s) get shot. Chalk up another victory for the peace loving muslims of Africa!
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  3. Gunny
    Offline

    Gunny Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    44,689
    Thanks Received:
    6,753
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Location:
    The Republic of Texas
    Ratings:
    +6,770
    I doubt seriously our experience in Somalia is what is keeping us out of Sudan. It is however shedding a different possible light on the subject, and not outside the realm of possibility.

    I believe our experience in Iraq has kept us from acting unilaterally. Damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we DO act, as in Iraq, all the ostriches pull their heads out of the sand long enough to criticize us. If we DON'T act, the verysame ostriches pull their heads out of the sand long enough to criticize us.

    Sudan is CLEARLY a mission for the UN if ever there was one, and what have they done besides blow a lot of hot air?

    I am quite perplexed over the fact the same people who squealed like stuck pigs when we invaded Iraq are the ones criticizing Bush for not doing anything to stop the goings on in Sudan. How is the mass murder in Sudan different than the mass murder perpetrated by Saddam Hussein?

    IMO, anyone condemning our invasion of Iraq AND criticizing our inaction concerning Sudan are just political hacks finding fault in whatever the President and/or his administration does regardless the obvious hypocrisy in their stances.
     
  4. Annie
    Offline

    Annie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    50,847
    Thanks Received:
    4,644
    Trophy Points:
    1,790
    Ratings:
    +4,770
    I agree with your sentiments, but Nato Air is not one of those hypocrites. He is currently serving the Navy in Japan.

    The UN is not going to step up to this, in all honesty, the US would NEVER have done Sudan unilaterally, it just doesn't reach the threshold of vital interests.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  5. Gunny
    Offline

    Gunny Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    44,689
    Thanks Received:
    6,753
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Location:
    The Republic of Texas
    Ratings:
    +6,770
    It was not my intent to criticize NATO Air, even if he is a squid. :) I'm a ree-tired jarhead myself, so it's all good.

    Just offering an alternate theory while hopefully stepping on the toes of the people it does fit.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  6. NATO AIR
    Offline

    NATO AIR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,275
    Thanks Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    USS Abraham Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +282
    The disaster of Somalia is the catch-all excuse for folks who want to influence the president and other leaders not to intervene at all in Africa with military force. Even during our limited (and I mean limited) presence in Liberia, there were nimrods in the media and in the government saying "it'll turn into another Somalia, don't do it!"
    Ten years later and we're still paying for Slick Willy's mistakes, and so are the victims of genocide in Africa.

    I look at it more and more and I don't believe we went into Iraq unilaterally. Even if Germany and France had contributed ground troops and somehow had more ground troops than we did, it would still be said we acted "unilaterally". Bullshit. We acted with the support of over 40 nations contributing military forces and even more contributing intelligence assistance, development and economic aid and political cover. We had more nations behind us in Iraq than in Kosovo, but Kosovo isn't called a unilateral war, even though again, we had to act against tyranny without the stamp of the UNSC.

    If it is clearly a mission for the UN and all the UN does is blow hot air, why do you condemn the victims to the UN? The UN is controlled by the people supporting the bad guys (China, Russia, France). America and Japan should withhold their UN budget contributions (nearly 50% of the UN budget) in protest of this genocide supporting UN.

    The mass murder in Sudan is no different than the one Saddam pulled off... with two notable differences.

    The world isolated Iraq for its crimes for nearly a decade. The US and its allies prevented a second genocide by basically taking over N. Iraq, giving it to the Kurds who lived there and defending the Kurds with Operation Northern Watch and other deployments. Finally, after it was apparent Saddam was just as bad as he always was, and was supporting terrorism (and was a tyrant in the ME), we toppled him.

    Sudan is embraced by the international community, considered and promised fucking World Bank loans, called a partner for peace by even the US, even though their leadership is a jihadist, oppressive, slavery using, genocide committing bunch of fuckos. They've murdered 2.5 million people in the past 20 years, 300,000 in the past 2 years. The world response.. "Sudan's a partner for peace"
     
  7. Bonnie
    Offline

    Bonnie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    9,476
    Thanks Received:
    668
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Wherever
    Ratings:
    +669
    Im inclined to agree with you Nato, I have met a gentleman who flew an apache helicopter during that horrible episode. His opinion on the matter was that Clinton got us into this situation ill prepared, then left the men to hang by refusing re-inforcements. It is quite humiliating and horrible to see our men dragged through the streets by thugs firing guns off tops of buildings and bringing down the most powerful nation in the world even briefly. It is loathsome but not surprising that the UN for all it's hot air about being a force for good ignores this problem.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. NATO AIR
    Offline

    NATO AIR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,275
    Thanks Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    USS Abraham Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +282
    Perhaps John Bolton can affect some change. If anything at least, he could go off and tell the world about China and Russia's criminal support of the Sudanese regime.
     
  9. Gunny
    Offline

    Gunny Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    44,689
    Thanks Received:
    6,753
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Location:
    The Republic of Texas
    Ratings:
    +6,770
    I am neither a fan of the UN, the Government of Sudan, nor Saddam Hussein. If you poured kerosene over all three I'd hand you my Zippo -- a souvenier from the USS Boxer on my last deployment.

    I agree with withholding our UN contribution AND I would act, unilaterally if need be, was it up to me. Probably why they don't let Gunny's make those decisions. I'd put a MEU on the ground and turn the Supercobras and Harriers loose. Let's see what the Sudanese Army can do against some pro's.
     
  10. NATO AIR
    Offline

    NATO AIR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,275
    Thanks Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    USS Abraham Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +282
    That's why Gunny's should be in some position of power, you need a guy who doesn't take any shit.

    :happy2:
     

Share This Page