The Peace Process

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by ForeverYoung436, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. ForeverYoung436
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    ForeverYoung436 Gold Member

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    Let's talk about what's happened since the Oslo Peace Process started in 1993. Prime Minister Rabin and Arch-terrorist Arafart signed an agreement. The Israelis recognized the so-called "Palestinians" and started withdrawing from parts of the country. My leftist, and rather stupid, relatives in Israel were euphoric--and they really believed peace was at hand. But a very strange thing happened. The more land Israel gave up, the more suicide bombers blew themselves up in pizza parlors, cafes and bus stations. A woman and her father on her wedding day. A man losing his wife and 4 girls (and an unborn baby boy in the womb). A family decimated sitting down to a Passover Seder. Minister Peres called them "sacrifices for peace", but there was no peace--and Israel was giving up its heartland for nothing. The tiny country of Israel was experiencing a miniature 9/11 on an almost daily basis. So the "peace process" is stalled. My relatives became disillusioned and turned rightist. What is Israel supposed to do, Tinmore? You tell me.
     
  2. P F Tinmore
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    P F Tinmore Platinum Member

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    Enough of the fake peace process already.

    They have been working on the two state solution for over 70 years and they are farther from a solution now than they were back then.

    Before Israel there was peace. Since Israel there has been nothing but death and destruction.

    There is a simple solution.
     
  3. ForeverYoung436
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    ForeverYoung436 Gold Member

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    Which is what?
     
  4. Jos
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    Jos BANNED

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    One state with Equal rights for all
     
  5. Jos
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    The One State Solution Sounds Like a Good Idea, but … | Dissident Voice
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

    A very good article
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  6. al Haq
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    al Haq Member

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    Israel didn’t “give up” any land as a result of Oslo. It did the opposite - it took more and more.

    At Oslo in 1993, Palestinians were required to make their offer up front - recognize Israel, change the PLO charter calling for the removal of Israel from historic Palestine, renounce terror, and make the most enormous concession of all: recognize Israeli sovereignty not just in the territory allocated to the Jewish state by the U.N. partition, but over all the land Israel had illegally seized in 1947-1948 from the area allocated for the Arab State.

    Arafat agreed to it all - he officially recognized Israeli sovereignty over 78% of historic Palestine, and agreed that the Palestinian state would be established on only 22% - the 1967 borders of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

    However, Israel was not required to offer anything except agree to recognize the Palestinian Authority as the representative of the Palestinian people.

    Israel did not offer a single tangible concession on any key issue. In return for merely “agreeing to negotiate,” Israel insisted that the borders, the settlements, the status of Jerusalem, the resolution of the refugee problem, water rights, etc. would be set aside, to be discussed in “final status” negotiations at an undetermined future time.

    The Palestinians had been led to believe that at least a moratorium on settlements would take place. But instead, Israel actually increased the pace of its settlement building.

    Since Oslo, Israel has been building furiously - appropriating more and more Palestinian land, and more than quadrupling the number of its illegal settlers in the West Bank.

    As Ariel Sharon stated in 1996, “Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can…Everything we don’t grab will go to them.” (The "Gaza disengagement" was Sharon's plan to consolidate Israeli control of the West Bank, especially around East Jerusalem. He was in fact "trading" a densely populated Palestinian area that he could not easily control - Gaza - for choicer areas in the West Bank.)

    Israel‘s consistent strategy has been to delay actual negotiations and diplomacy for as long as possible while it continues to create “facts on the ground,” seizing as many strategic areas in the West Bank as possible - prime agricultural land, huge chunks along the Green Line and around East Jerusalem, a massive swath along the entire border with Jordan, as well as the water resources.

    Israel confiscates this Palestinian land claiming military or security purposes, then builds “Jewish only“ settlements on it and transfers its own civilian population into them. It seizes even more territory to build “Jewish-only” roads to connect the illegal settlements to each other and to Israel “proper.”

    This is an ongoing strategy intended to bisect the potential Palestinian state into separate “cantons” and make a viable, continguous, independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza completely impossible.

    As Sharon bragged way back in 1973, “We’ll make a pastrami sandwich of them. We’ll insert a strip of Jewish settlement, in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlement, right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years time, neither the United Nations, nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart.”

    [​IMG]

    Palestinian suicide bombings were a direct response to the failed peace process, the failure to stop Israel's encroachment on Palestinian land, the escalation of Israel's violent military occupation, and the continuation of its illegal settlement enterprise.

    BTW the very first successful Palestinian suicide bombing was a retaliation for Jewish terrorist Baruch Goldstein's massacre of 29 Palestinians during Ramadan prayers inside the Ibrahim Mosque in Hebron, in February 1994.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
  7. georgephillip
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    georgephillip Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Say what you will about Ariel Sharon, he paid close attention to parental advice.

    "Although he was raised...to believe that Arabs and Jews could live side by side, his parents believed and taught him that 'without question' only Jews had rights over the land.

    "'When the land belongs to you physically that is when you have power, not just physical power but spiritual power.'"

    "Before there was terrorism there was the occupation."

    An illegal occupation based on the assumption that "...Palestinian history and destiny are secondary to Jewish history and destiny."

    Before There Was Terrorism
     
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  8. ForeverYoung436
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    ForeverYoung436 Gold Member

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    Israel did give some land to Palestinian authorities after 1993. And just like Goldstein's massacre was wrong, and some of the settlers' actions in Hebron are wrong, a lot of the bloodlusty suicide bombings and atrocities were just plain wrong. Don't try to whitewash everything the Palestinians do.
     
  9. al Haq
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    al Haq Member

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    What "whitewash"? I am just stating the facts. Palestinian suicide bombings did not occur in some kind of vacuum; they were a direct response to the deteriorating situation in the West Bank and Gaza.

    Real hope of a state was dangled in front of the Palestinians at Oslo, if only they would recognize Israel and accept that more than half the land which had been designated for the Palestinian state in 1948 would instead be part of Israel.

    They did so, formally, agreeing that a Palestinian state would consist of only 22% of historic Palestine. But in return for their enormous concession, they got nothing - more and more of what remained of their land was being taken piece by piece.

    Sure, Israel redeployed some of its troops from inside some of the Palestinian towns to their outskirts (notably Jericho and Gaza City.) But the occupation continued in force - Israeli troops remained in total control of Palestinian areas, controlling all borders and all traffic in or out, continuing to launch periodic incursions, assassinations and arrest roundups, continuing to impose closures and curfews at will.

    And Israel did not remove its settlements (other than a few tiny “outposts“ which were usually rebuilt in the exact same location within days of removal) - it continued to build and expand them.

    Later, in the 2005 “Gaza disengagement,“ Israel simply redeployed the 8000 or so settlers it had in Gaza to other illegal settlements in the West Bank, then moved its troops to the borders around Gaza, and sealed it up.

    [​IMG]

    Disappointment, disillusionment and rage at the continued failure to negotiate a real political solution, the continued killing of their people, and the continued confiscation of their land - these are the very real factors behind the phenomenon of suicide bombings.

    It is documented that in almost every case, individual suicide bombers had experienced some personal traumatic loss as a result of the occupation - usually a family member killed by Israeli soldiers or police.

    And in almost every case, suicide bombings were launched as specific retaliations for specific Israeli actions - usually Israel's assassinations of high-level Palestinian political or militant commanders, or for the slaughter of civilians. The communiques from groups who planned the bombings usually contained references to the incident(s) for which they were retaliating.

    This type of revenge attack did not come as a surprise to Israeli leaders who planned and implemented assassinations of Palestinians - they knew exactly what would happen.

    Considering that many assassinations took place during a cease-fire with Fatah or Hamas or whatever group (or during negotiations to establish a cease-fire,) some observers say it’s no coincidence - they say that Israel intentionally uses assassinations and other violence to deliberately provoke a violent retaliation, which then is used as yet another excuse to avoid peace negotiations. As long as peace negotiations are stalled, Israel feels free to continue to appropriate Palestinian land and resources, which it fully intends to formally annex into Israel in any final agreement.

    Again - Israel did not “give” any land to the Palestinians. The West Bank and Gaza don’t belong to Israel; they are illegally occupied.
     
  10. ForeverYoung436
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    ForeverYoung436 Gold Member

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    Retreated, gave--it's all semantics. Must you nitpick over every word? You know as well as I do that if Israel RETREATED from every inch of the West Bank and Gaza, it would still not be enough for them.
     

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