The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by Coyote, Dec 12, 2015.

  1. Sixties Fan
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    As General Assembly Resolution 212 (III) of November 19, 1948 phrased it, there developed, as a result of the war of aggression the Arabs launched against Israel in violation of several Security Council resolutions, like S/801 of May 29, 1948, for example, demanding a cessation of hostilities and seeking to solve:

    “the problem of the relief of Palestine refugees of all communities.”

    Note: not “Palestinian refugees” but refugees of Palestine. Palestine, of course, included all the territory west of the Jordan River. And the terms “Judea” and “Samaria” were used at that time (“The boundary of the hill country of Samaria and Judea”) to describe portions of all that territory of Palestine, as in Part Two of the 1947 Partition Plan. A later UN resolution included in its list of Jewish holy places some sites that today too many would refer to as some never-never-land called the “West Bank”, a term created in April 1950 when one bank of the Jordan River was called “Western” and extended for dozens of kilometers, up and down mountains, too.

    There were thousands of Jews who were expelled or forced to flee hostilities as a result of the 1948 Arab aggression. The Old City of Jerusalem, neighborhoods like Nahalat Shimon and Shimon HaTzadik, moshavim (towns) in its environs like Atarot and Neveh Yaakov, kibbutzim in Gush Etzion and one at the Dead Sea, and other communities.

    They too became Palestine refugees and for some three years, UNRWA actually did provide elements of humanitarian care but halted its work when Israel indicated that it would take care of its own. Of course, UNRWA could have ignored that move by Israel. Or, it could declare today that Jews wishing to move back to Hebron will receive funds and assistance for their Jewish “right of return.” On the other hand, did UNRWA press the host Arab countries of Arab refugees from Mandatory Palestine to follow Israel’s example? Did it say something like “see what the Jews do? Why not you?” Or did it exclude Jews from influencing their treatment of Arabs?

    (full article online)

    UNRWA is Jew-exclusive
     
  2. Sixties Fan
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    As David Shayne notes,


    according to Dr. Levinovsky, some 97 Jewish villages were attacked and damaged: 11 of these were destroyed entirely, 6 were conquered and lost – until after the 1967 Six Day War, when those conquered were re-established...Fully one quarter of Jerusalem’s Jews fled, mostly to the relative safety of the coastal plain.
    Jerusalem's Jewish population numbered 100,000 in 1948.

    I stand corrected.

    But I correct the record: as a result of the Arab terror ethnic cleansing campaign of 1920-1947, the true number of Jews who became refugees during the Mandate era, even if UNRWA limits the term "refugee" to the 1946-1948 period, is several thousands more, as we need include those who were driven out of Hebron, Gaza, Shchem, Jenin, Jericho, Tul Karem and Jerusalem.

    The exodus from the Old City began in 1920, increased after Nov. 1921, after August 1929 and then during 1936-39 all due to Arab rioting and terror.
    We know the British forced Jews out too.
    At the beginning of the 20th century, 20,000 Jews lived in the Old City. In 1948, 1700 were left.
    Thousands of Jaffa's Jews were forced out due to most of the same circumstances (in 1936, 10,000 Jews still lived in Jaffa. In 1920, 8740 Jews lived in Jaffa, by the British count, and that number increased until 1929.

    Hundreds of Jews from Hebron.

    (full article online)

    My Right Word: Jewish Palestine Refugees - I Am Corrected
     
  3. P F Tinmore
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    P F Tinmore Diamond Member

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    Why would they be called refugees of Palestine if there was no Palestine?
     
  4. Sixties Fan
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    "The Mandate of Palestine", Oh Gracious Fool who likes to think he is fooling everyone.

    :iyfyus.jpg:
     
  5. P F Tinmore
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    There was no mandate in November 19, 1948.
     
  6. Sixties Fan
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    :iyfyus.jpg:
     
  7. RoccoR
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    RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
    ※→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,

    Leave it to our friend "P F Tinmore" to focus on the trivia. In November 1948, the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine was divided into two regions: 1) there was territory under the control of Israel, and 2) there was territory under the control of the Arab League.

    (COMMENT)

    Technically you are correct. In that November, it was:

    Article 77 UN CHARTER

    1
    The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed there under by means of trusteeship agreements:
    a. territories now held under mandate;
    b. territories which may be detached from enemy states as a result of the Second World War; and
    c. territories voluntarily placed under the system by states responsible for their administration.​

    Now, what are you meaningfully contributing here? ⇒ "There was no mandate in November 19, 1948." What is the significance of that?

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  8. P F Tinmore
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    The mandate was gone and it was still Palestine.
     
  9. RoccoR
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    RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
    ※→ P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,

    No, you missed the point. And you are trying to tie some significance to the name and the duration that name was valid.

    (COMMENT)

    I have a Chevy Tahoe; here in after called Chevy, parked in the driveway. The Title to the Chevy is in my name. I sell the Chevy to my next door neighbor. It is still called a Chevy; however, the title reflects a completely different owner and address.

    Palestine is much the same way. It was a carveout the Allied Powers named Palestine after 500 years of it being called by the name of the Ottoman Empire named the Political Subdivision. For 500 years The Ottoman Empire named the Vilayets (we call today by the regional name Palestine) as the Sanjuks of Acre and Balqa; with the West Bank and the Gaza Strip being in the Independent Sanjak of Jerusalem.

    Each time a new Sovereign took possession of the region, something changed. The "Palestine" --- in the time of Augustus Caesar was different from the time of Constantine, which was different from the time of Ṣalaḥ ad-Dīn. And today it is different yet again. And in that timeline, you would be hard pressed to mark on the timeline when the region was self-governing; especially by the Arabs of Palestine (however you define it).

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
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  10. P F Tinmore
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    P F Tinmore Diamond Member

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    Are you trying to say that whenever a new flag flies over city hall that everyone moves out an an entire new population moves in?
     

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