The New Pentagon Papers: WikiLeaks Releases 90,000+ Secret Military Documents

[P F Tinmore]

It’s one of the biggest leaks in US military history. More than 90,000 internal records of US military actions in Afghanistan over the past six years have been published by the whistleblower website WikiLeaks. The documents provide a devastating portrait of the war in Afghanistan, revealing how coalition forces have killed hundreds of civilians in unreported incidents, how a secret black ops special forces unit hunts down targets for assassination or detention without trial, how Taliban attacks have soared, and how Pakistan is fueling the insurgency. We host a roundtable discussion with independent British journalist Stephen Grey; Pentagon Papers whistleblower, Daniel Ellsberg; former State Department official in Afghanistan, Matthew Hoh; independent journalist Rick Rowley; and investigative historian Gareth Porter.

The New Pentagon Papers: WikiLeaks Releases 90,000+ Secret Military Documents Painting Devastating Picture of Afghanistan War

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yea this is incredibly disturbing. I just tried to get on the Wiki Leaks site and couldn't. Seems pretty odd that i can no longer access their site? I guess people in some very high places in this Administration are P*SSED. I'll try their site again later. The part about the Pakistani Intelligence supporting the Taliban & Al Qaeda against our kids in Afghanistan was especially sad & disturbing to me. How many American kids have the Pakistanis killed? Meanwhile we're handing them Billions in Tax Payer Dollars. After reading this stuff,you realize that it's not so surprising we're losing Afghanistan. What a mess.

 

[Oscar Wao]

When deeper truths are exposed, of course people are going to be on the defensive.

 

[G.T.]

Since when is it alright to just go ahead and Unofficially Declassify - - Classified Documents? I'm not sure this was such a bright idea, could it not be considered Treasonous......I don't know.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Since when is it alright to just go ahead and Unofficially Declassify - - Classified Documents? I'm not sure this was such a bright idea, could it not be considered Treasonous......I don't know.

It Could be. However i think it's Treasonous for them to rape American Tax Payers and give the Pakistanis Billions in Tax Dollars. They have been supporting the Taliban & Al Qaeda killing our kids all along. That should bother all Americans.

 

[G.T.]

Since when is it alright to just go ahead and Unofficially Declassify - - Classified Documents? I'm not sure this was such a bright idea, could it not be considered Treasonous......I don't know.

It Could be. However i think it's Treasonous for them to rape American Tax Payers and give the Pakistanis Billions in Tax Dollars. They have been supporting the Taliban & Al Qaeda killing our kids all along. That should bother all Americans.

How many more posts before it's Obama and the left's fault? Just curious.

Anyways, there's a bigger picture going on over there that's above all of our heads (in terms of Top Secret in-planning), and so it's really not fair to judge what's Rape and what's not when you don't know A: the effects of NOT doing things they've done, B: the end-game.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Our own President has proclaimed "Winning is no longer the goal" over there. So what the H*LL are our kids dying for? What a f*cking mess.

 

[Nosmo King]

I supported the Afghan war since it was launched. I believed that our goal to wrest Al Qaeda from its sanctuaries and capture or kill bin Laden were honorable.

Now, even before the leak of these papers, I have come to the conclusion that this war, or any war, in Afghanistan is an unwinnable war and we should leave that part of the world.

The Soviets tried. The British tried. And now it's apparent that Afghanistan truly is the place Empires go to Die.

Our lessons of history have not been learned. And we are doomed to repeat history in Afghanistan.

 

[G.T.]

Our own President has proclaimed "Winning is no longer the goal" over there. So what the H*LL are our kids dying for? What a f*cking mess.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Hmm? Still can't access the Wiki Leaks site. Pretty weird stuff going on.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I supported the Afghan war since it was launched. I believed that our goal to wrest Al Qaeda from its sanctuaries and capture or kill bin Laden were honorable.

.....And, we TRIED.....until Dumbya & The DICK pulled-the-plug......


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtPBTybQ9k]YouTube - The Hunt For Bin Laden[/ame]​

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Has anyone else been able to access the Wiki Leaks site? I've been trying but haven't been able to yet.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Our own President has proclaimed "Winning is no longer the goal" over there. So what the H*LL are our kids dying for? What a f*cking mess.

....And, a "Win" looks like.....what?

​

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Just accessed the Wiki Leaks site. There's a lot of stuff to sift through. It should be some very interesting reading for a few days.

 

[Oscar Wao]

My the Lord forever bless WikiLeaks

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I wonder how long before the people who crapped themselves over the Plame non-story do the same over this very much so a story... story.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Our own President has proclaimed "Winning is no longer the goal" over there. So what the H*LL are our kids dying for? What a f*cking mess.

....And, a "Win" looks like.....what?

​

That is the same question I have asked about Iraq.

I have yet to receive an answer.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Tinmore, you got ahead of me. Been following this all day:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26isi.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26warlogs.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
The War Logs: Reaction to Disclosure of Military Documents on Afghan War - At War Blog - NYTimes.com

The reports — usually spare summaries but sometimes detailed narratives — shed light on some elements of the war that have been largely hidden from the public eye:

• The Taliban have used portable heat-seeking missiles against allied aircraft, a fact that has not been publicly disclosed by the military. This type of weapon helped the Afghan mujahedeen defeat the Soviet occupation in the 1980s.

• Secret commando units like Task Force 373 — a classified group of Army and Navy special operatives — work from a “capture/kill list” of about 70 top insurgent commanders. These missions, which have been stepped up under the Obama administration, claim notable successes, but have sometimes gone wrong, killing civilians and stoking Afghan resentment.

• The military employs more and more drone aircraft to survey the battlefield and strike targets in Afghanistan, although their performance is less impressive than officially portrayed. Some crash or collide, forcing American troops to undertake risky retrieval missions before the Taliban can claim the drone’s weaponry.

• The Central Intelligence Agency has expanded paramilitary operations inside Afghanistan. The units launch ambushes, order airstrikes and conduct night raids. From 2001 to 2008, the C.I.A. paid the budget of Afghanistan’s spy agency and ran it as a virtual subsidiary.

Over all, the documents do not contradict official accounts of the war. But in some cases the documents show that the American military made misleading public statements — attributing the downing of a helicopter to conventional weapons instead of heat-seeking missiles or giving Afghans credit for missions carried out by Special Operations commandos.

There's a series of problems and questions over it:

1) Is it a good thing for Wikileaks to be releasing this information?
2) Is Pakistan just incompetent/unable to deal with the Taliban and its internal sectors allied with the Taliban or is it actually aiding them?
3) Is there really any chance to "win" in Afghanistan?

What these documents show is that this war is developing in the most complex of manners. It's not in any way unlikely that segments of Pakistani intelligence is actively aiding efforts of the Taliban, though I would definitely say that it is not official government policy to condone it (though probably unofficial government policy to sort-of, kind-of quietly allow it to happen).

The key thing to understand here is that Pakistan is a very young and underdeveloped state in almost each and every way. Pakistan simply does not have the monopoly of force in its territory. When you see a map of Pakistan and see the hard boundaries, you are not seeing a reality. A huge chunk of the border region with Afghanistan is run by tribal leaders and warlords, which the government (by all accounts a totally unstable quasi-democracy) cannot push too far lest it risks losing all influence (however limited) in these regions. Many of these share familial ties and ideological similarities with the Taliban and as such want and do help them in their crusade against the Americans.

So the problem for the Pakistani government is that no matter how much it would want to crush these areas and acquire the absolute monopoly of force in all its regions, it is incapable of doing so. So they have to walk a very fine line to keep the wishes of these unruly constituencies at bay by either allowing them to attack the US or even aiding them.

In other words, that sort of thing is not going to cease occuring. No matter if the US cancels all aid, no matter if they are threatened, the fact is that Pakistan does not have the capacity to stop the attacks. The problem with this is that, if the US stops all colaboration with Pakistan, then what? Doing so would doom the war effort. Where else would the US be able to attack the Afghan insurgency from, other than inside Afghanistan? How would it stop the back-and-forth movements of rebels along Pakistan?

Yes, the War is unwinnable. And these documents show it more than anything, which in effect makes the release of them all the more important. It's a way of saying "Look, it's not happening. Give it up." And its true. Unless the Pakistani government decides to fully and totally support the mission (which it cannot do, regardless of what it says), the Insurgency will be kept alive. If the insurgency is kept alive, the United States cannot win.

Chances are that once the withdrawal starts in 2011, either Karzai will consume the Taliban command into the government structure, or he will be deposed and the Taliban will come back to power. Or both.

 

[Reasoning]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvywJQ3m4Ps]YouTube - 'WikiLeaks story soft, coverage a 9/11-like lie'[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDcnBeY_t3c]YouTube - Afghan Bombshell: WikiLeaks 'War Diary' exposes US cover-up[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZxRGgqWQeI]YouTube - Reports reveal Afghan war details[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXYlk9543Z4]YouTube - WikiLeaks vs White House: Who's twisting the truth?[/ame]

 

[The T]

Notice they give it to the NY Times that has a HISTORY of publishing SECRETS?

Classic Audio: NY TIMES