The Most Mysterious Right

[M14 Shooter]

I've got a stack of bricks in the garage about as useful as an unloaded weapon.

An unloaded gub is a club. Might as well have a baseball bat.

 

[Ninja]

There IS no precedent on the issue. The Court hasn't ever ruled on the subject.

One attorney's opinion. Let's hear another's:

Throughout the Court's history, the Justices have mentioned the Second Amendment, usually in passing, in 27 opinions. In 22 of these 27, the Justices quoted or paraphrased only "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" language, without even mentioning the Militia Clause.

http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/testimon.htm

Here is his list:

http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/testimon.htm#TOC.VI.D

I'm but an amatuer barrister, but I'd say we definitely have precedent.

 

[midcan5]

Listen, the insecure and frightened can always hug their guns, they can hide in their fall out shelter armed and ready for aliens or whomever is the fear figure of the day, it is control of handguns and a change in attitude that matter here. And maybe a heavy object can kill you but I'd prefer that fight any day. The times they are a changing, as I noted above, attitudes towards smoking have changed, attitudes among the young towards guns will change too. Time is always on the side of sanity. Well, usually always.



http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

FACT: Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States.
- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

FACT: Taxpayers pay more than 85% of the medical cost for treatment of firearm-related injuries.
- Martin M, et al. "The Cost of Hospitalization for Firearm Injuries." JAMA. Vol 260, November 25, 1998, pp 3048, and Ordog et al. "Hospital Costs of Firearm Injuries." Abstract. Journal of Trauma. February 1995, p1)

 

[jillian]

One attorney's opinion. Let's hear another's:



http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/testimon.htm

Here is his list:

http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/testimon.htm#TOC.VI.D

I'm but an amatuer barrister, but I'd say we definitely have precedent.

Volokh has a particular political perspective. Personally, I haven't ever read anything he's written that I've agreed with, but admittedly that's MY opinion, which isn't worth more or less than his.

As you know, I have no horse in the race on this issue. And while there may be dicta in some of the decisions, there is no precedent until the Court rules on the issue directly. Just how it works. Dicta can be used to persuade, but there's no stare decisis.

 

[Alpha1]

Volokh has a particular political perspective. Personally, I haven't ever read anything he's written that I've agreed with, but admittedly that's MY opinion, which isn't worth more or less than his.

As you know, I have no horse in the race on this issue. And while there may be dicta in some of the decisions, there is no precedent until the Court rules on the issue directly. Just how it works. Dicta can be used to persuade, but there's no stare decisis.

.... dicta.....stare decisis....????

I'll bet the snowman is duly impressed....

Damn, thats funny...thanks Jill....

 

[jillian]

.... dicta.....stare decisis....????

I'll bet the snowman is duly impressed....

Damn, thats funny...thanks Jill....

You could go look up the words moron, since you clearly don't understand what I was saying. Snowman, however, does. And we've talked about these issues before.

How is that rock you crawled out from under anyway? And do you honestly think your opinion matters? I really don't get all that het up by things people with double digit IQ's say. So keep on trying.

 

[Alpha1]

Listen, the insecure and frightened can always hug their guns, they can hide in their fall out shelter armed and ready for aliens or whomever is the fear figure of the day, it is control of handguns and a change in attitude that matter here. And maybe a heavy object can kill you but I'd prefer that fight any day. The times they are a changing, as I noted above, attitudes towards smoking have changed, attitudes among the young towards guns will change too. Time is always on the side of sanity. Well, usually always.



http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

FACT: Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States.
- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

FACT: Taxpayers pay more than 85% of the medical cost for treatment of firearm-related injuries.
- Martin M, et al. "The Cost of Hospitalization for Firearm Injuries." JAMA. Vol 260, November 25, 1998, pp 3048, and Ordog et al. "Hospital Costs of Firearm Injuries." Abstract. Journal of Trauma. February 1995, p1)

What about that old quote about giving up our rights for a little security you lefties seemed to love to post lately....or was that just your fear that Cheney might hear you ordering a pizza over your tapped phone?

 

[Alpha1]

You could go look up the words moron, since you clearly don't understand what I was saying. Snowman, however, does. And we've talked about these issues before.

How is that rock you crawled out from under anyway? And do you honestly think your opinion matters? I really don't get all that het up by things people with double digit IQ's say. So keep on trying.

Hey...I admire that fact that you keep coming back for more after you've been burned some many times ....and with some clever retorts yet....meaningless but clever.....

 

[jillian]

Hey...I admire that fact that you keep coming back for more after you've been burned some many times ....and with some clever retorts yet....meaningless but clever.....

I just figured you're too stupid to realize when you've been getting your butt kicked, so it's kind of amusing to me.

 

[Alpha1]

I just figured you're too stupid to realize when you've been getting your butt kicked, so it's kind of amusing to me.

Ahhhh....must be magic of perspective.....like I said, meaningless but clever....

 

[midcan5]

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3920

"Douglas Wiebe of the Firearm Injury Center at Penn (FICAP) at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia .... Last month, Wiebe and colleagues found that people who keep guns at home have a 72 per cent greater chance of being killed by firearms compared with those who do not, and are 3.44 times as likely to commit suicide (Annals of Emergency Medicine, vol 41, p 771). A 1997 survey by the CDC that compared the US with 25 other industrialised countries, including the UK and Australia, showed that the number of gun-related homicides in the US per 100,00 children below the age of 15 was 16 times that of all the other countries combined. The proportion of children below 15 who use guns to kill themselves was 11 times higher."

 

[Threedee]

I find it ackward that Berger argued that the 2nd Amendment was a protection accorded to states rather than people, when the Marshall Court ruled in Baron v. Baltimore (1825) that the Bill of Rights only applied to the federal government and not the states. The basic understanding of the courts until after the passing of the 14th Amendment was to accept Baron.

 

[Threedee]

Oh yeah, and Hitler abolished guns, you damn Nazis!

 

[Alpha1]

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3920

"Douglas Wiebe of the Firearm Injury Center at Penn (FICAP) at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia .... Last month, Wiebe and colleagues found that people who keep guns at home have a 72 per cent greater chance of being killed by firearms compared with those who do not, and are 3.44 times as likely to commit suicide (Annals of Emergency Medicine, vol 41, p 771). A 1997 survey by the CDC that compared the US with 25 other industrialised countries, including the UK and Australia, showed that the number of gun-related homicides in the US per 100,00 children below the age of 15 was 16 times that of all the other countries combined. The proportion of children below 15 who use guns to kill themselves was 11 times higher."

From your link....

gun-related homicide and suicide come second only to motor vehicle accidents. "If it's the number one cause of death for portions of the population, how can it not be a compelling public health problem?
------------------------------------------------
MEANING motor vehicle accidents are #1..
..is that not a compelling health problem...?

..wheres your demand to ban these young guys from driving?

Gun owners get their rights DIRECTLY from the Bill of Rights...

Driving is a mere privilege...and driving accidents #1...


\can you say "hypocrite" ?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Listen, the insecure and frightened can always hug their guns...

The insecure and frightened whine and complain about guns, but when it comes time to stand and deliver a sound argument against them, they fall way short.

Fear of inanimite objects is called hoplophibia. You suffer. Get help.

 

[Dr Grump]

Fear of inanimite objects is called hoplophibia. You suffer. Get help.

Then again, some think guns are unnecessary in a civilised society...

 

[M14 Shooter]

Then again, some think guns are unnecessary in a civilised society...

If only we had, and would ever have, such a thing.

 

[Dr Grump]

If only we had, and would ever have, such a thing.

Depends on your definition...

 

[M14 Shooter]

Depends on your definition...

Well, if it's one were guns are unnecessary, then its one where government is unnecessary.

 

[Dr Grump]

Well, if it's one were guns are unnecessary, then its one where government is unnecessary.

Again that depends. Is Somalia civilised? Not in my opinion. Is NZ (where I'm from)? Relatively...