The Liberty

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by patrickcaturday, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. patrickcaturday
    Offline

    patrickcaturday Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    775
    Thanks Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Rep System: Opted back in for a while.
    Ratings:
    +143
    I have tried to get people interested in this subject before, unfortunatly most of the time on the Israel/Palestine thread it rapidly devoles into name calling and twisting of the facts. I would like to deal with it in an adult manner, that does not mean that I do not want good, healthy, strong and honest debate, it means that I want to deal with it without all of the garbage !!! In order that I cannot be accused of flying under a false flag I should state that in my opinion The Liberty was deliberty attacked by the Israelis.
    I beleive that the documentary that I am about to expose you to from the BBC will in the years ahead go down as a part of the true history of that time. Please watch it and then I would welcome your comments.


    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOH1XMAwZA]"USS Liberty: Dead In The Water" (BBC Documentary 2002) - YouTube[/ame]

    Feel free to add other evidence if you wish !!!
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  2. oldfart
    Offline

    oldfart Older than dirt

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,354
    Thanks Received:
    462
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera
    Ratings:
    +527
    I'm glad you brought this topic up again. I vividly remember the event, and did not understand at the time why the United States did not take more decisive action. This was not like the Gulf of Tonkin incident, where all the evidence of attack on U S naval units turned out to be false. thirty four Americans dies and 171 were wounded.

    While there is a lot of debate, the official reports and document lead me to agree that the attack was premeditated and intentional. My best guess is that at that point in the Six Day War, the Israelis were preparing for a last ditch nuclear attack if their lines broke and felt they had to protect that operation at all costs, even from the United States. I believe they had some fear that with an American carrier in the area, the United States might decide to intercept such an attack if the United States deemed the target too sensitive (like Cairo or Damascus). The Liberty was certainly a potential threat to their communications security. This is the only motive that makes sense to me for taking such a risk, and explains the subsequent behavior of both the American and Israeli governments. The Israeli's claimed it was a case of misidentification (an incredulous claim given the crew's testimony) and offered financial compensation. LBJ accepted the explanation with unseemly haste.

    I'm sure this is going to be debated for decades more, but I don't think there is much evidence which will come out to make it any clearer.
     
  3. Intense
    Offline

    Intense Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    44,909
    Thanks Received:
    5,849
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +5,863
    Have you read the book?
     
  4. patrickcaturday
    Offline

    patrickcaturday Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    775
    Thanks Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Rep System: Opted back in for a while.
    Ratings:
    +143

    Which book are you refering to ???
     
  5. Intense
    Offline

    Intense Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    44,909
    Thanks Received:
    5,849
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +5,863
  6. patrickcaturday
    Offline

    patrickcaturday Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    775
    Thanks Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Rep System: Opted back in for a while.
    Ratings:
    +143

    No I have not. I will have to see if my library has a copy, but I have read some of his writings on the net and I find them very good.
     
  7. Intense
    Offline

    Intense Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    44,909
    Thanks Received:
    5,849
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +5,863
    I highly recommend the read. Just a thought, there is a lot of blame to go around, both here, and in Israel. Compound Breakdowns were the cause here, including Denial, Obstruction, failed Logistics. If that Book doesn't have the answer to any question, it's because it hasn't been asked yet. It is Exhaustive in detail.
     
  8. sealadaigh
    Offline

    sealadaigh BANNED

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,721
    Thanks Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    THE NO REP ZONE
    Ratings:
    +129
    i think when you begin speculating as to motive, you allow people to lose sight of the facts. there are plenty of possible motives.

    the facts though are pretty clear. this is what israel expects you to believe was a case of mistaken identity. a U.S. naval that at the time was probably one of the most identifiable vessels on the high seas and which had been identified earlier in the day as a U.S naval vessel was later observed in numerous, low level fly bys by israeli observation planes and identified by as an egyptian freaigtor by highly trained pilots on a clear june day on the mediterranean, despite the fact it was flying an american flag and had 5 foot high identifying letters on the hull.

    this vessel was attacked by israeli jets which had no identifying markings on them at the time, which is hardly coincidental.
     
  9. RetiredGySgt
    Online

    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    39,542
    Thanks Received:
    5,899
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings:
    +8,952
    35years ago and still complaining. Shall we hate the Japanese because of Pearl harbor? The Vietnamese because of Vietnam, We are not allowed to dislike the Arabs for acts they committed days ago but we should hate the Jews for something that happened 35 years ago?

    Or is that different?
     
  10. editec
    Offline

    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    41,427
    Thanks Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +5,617
    YUP.

    The Liberty was attacked by Isreal, without doubt.

    Nobody is entirely sure why, but the fact that it was done is pretty apparent based on the testimony of the people who were there.
     

Share This Page