The Judeo-Christian Nation, America.

[Dragon]

Care to subscribe to this as well?
"Our nation's history provides overwhelming evidence that America was birthed upon Judeo-Christian principles."

Nope. Depending on what one means by "founded upon" and by "Judeo-Christian principles," the statement is either a falsehood or a meaningless tautology.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Care to subscribe to this as well?
"Our nation's history provides overwhelming evidence that America was birthed upon Judeo-Christian principles."

Nope. Depending on what one means by "founded upon" and by "Judeo-Christian principles," the statement is either a falsehood or a meaningless tautology.

1. Thereby informing this:

"Not facts, nor data, nor experience, nor rational debate will convince individuals such as you....
Explaining to a Liberal is like trying to tell a devout Muslim that Al-Buraq didn't carry the prophet Muhammad from Mecca to Jerusalem and back during the Isra and Mi'raj or "Night Journey."


2. Nor did I expect Forbe's fact-laden article article to have any effect on one of your political persuasion.
Predicted in the following:

'While our Liberal colleagues are not susceptible to debate, logic of any kind, data, or even their own experience, one should not be led to believe that they actually believe the ideas they propound, or the officeholders that they support.
The Left must bear a Sisyphean burden having to suspend reason and accountability, in order to rationalize the positions that they claim to espouse...'
David Mamet


3. Please, continue to deny "Our nation's history provides overwhelming evidence that America was birthed upon Judeo-Christian principles."

" [O]ne does not have to be a religious observer to grasp that the core values of Western civilization are grounded in religion, most important elements on the foundation of equality are in the creation of man by God, and to be concerned that the erosion of religious observance therefore undermines those values and the ‘secular ideals’ they reflect."
“The World Turned Upside Down,” Melanie Phillips, 2009


With appreciation for proving proof of the immutability of a Liberal....

 

[Dragon]

Christ on a bicycle.

One may mean by "Judeo-Christian principles" either:

1) Principles specifically found in Judaism and Christianity and not found in other religions; or

2) Principles found in Judaism and/or Christianity even if they are also found in other religions; or

3) Principles not actually part of either Judaism or Christianity but generally believed by people who also happen to be Jewish and/or Christian.

One may mean by "founded upon" either:

A) That the United States of America as a political entity was founded on those principles, which would mean that they are either incorporated into the Constitution or else are part of English common law; or

B) That the American nation in its colonial origins was founded on those principles.

Whether the statement that our country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles is false or a meaningless tautology depends on which meanings of these phrases one chooses, as follows.

1) and A) together -- that the U.S.A. as a political entity was founded on principles unique to Judaism and Christianity -- is a falsehood.

2) and A) -- that the U.S.A. as a political entity was founded on principles which Judaism and Christianity shares with other religions is a tautology, since all civilizations and political systems have been so founded (it's also in part a falsehood).

3) and A) -- that the U.S.A. as a political entity was founded on principles which are not actually part of Judaism and Christianity, but which are believed by people who also happen to be Jewish or Christian, is a tautology, as most Americans were Christian and the nation was founded on principles that Americans believed in.

1) and B) -- that American colonial civilization was founded on uniquely Judeo-Christian principles -- is mostly false, although it is true about New England.

2) and B) -- that American colonial civilization was founded on moral principles Judaism and Christianity share with other religions, is a tautology in that all societies are so founded.

3) and B) -- that American colonial civilization was founded on moral principles believed by people who happen to be Christian -- is also tautological for obvious reasons.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Christ on a bicycle.

One may mean by "Judeo-Christian principles" either:

1) Principles specifically found in Judaism and Christianity and not found in other religions; or

2) Principles found in Judaism and/or Christianity even if they are also found in other religions; or

3) Principles not actually part of either Judaism or Christianity but generally believed by people who also happen to be Jewish and/or Christian.

One may mean by "founded upon" either:

A) That the United States of America as a political entity was founded on those principles, which would mean that they are either incorporated into the Constitution or else are part of English common law; or

B) That the American nation in its colonial origins was founded on those principles.

Whether the statement that our country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles is false or a meaningless tautology depends on which meanings of these phrases one chooses, as follows.

1) and A) together -- that the U.S.A. as a political entity was founded on principles unique to Judaism and Christianity -- is a falsehood.

2) and A) -- that the U.S.A. as a political entity was founded on principles which Judaism and Christianity shares with other religions is a tautology, since all civilizations and political systems have been so founded (it's also in part a falsehood).

3) and A) -- that the U.S.A. as a political entity was founded on principles which are not actually part of Judaism and Christianity, but which are believed by people who also happen to be Jewish or Christian, is a tautology, as most Americans were Christian and the nation was founded on principles that Americans believed in.

1) and B) -- that American colonial civilization was founded on uniquely Judeo-Christian principles -- is mostly false, although it is true about New England.

2) and B) -- that American colonial civilization was founded on moral principles Judaism and Christianity share with other religions, is a tautology in that all societies are so founded.

3) and B) -- that American colonial civilization was founded on moral principles believed by people who happen to be Christian -- is also tautological for obvious reasons.

Herein lie the best aspects of the marketplace of ideas....

The reader may decide whether the OP or post #23 reveal the truth.

 

[sealybobo]

1. “On April 6, 2009, President Obama, speaking halfway across the world in Turkey, effectively made a shocking proclamation: that the United States did not consider itself a Judeo-Christian nation. "Although, as I mentioned, we have a very large Christian population, we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation," he said.

2. Our nation's history provides overwhelming evidence that America was birthed upon Judeo-Christian principles. The first act of America's first Congress in 1774 was to ask a minister to open with prayer and to lead Congress in the reading of four chapters of the Bible. In 1776, in approving the Declaration of Independence, our founders acknowledged that all men "are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights..." and noted that they were relying "on the protection of DivineProvidence" in the founding of this country. John Quincy Adams said, "The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity." Also, the signers of the 1783 Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War, insisted the treaty begin with the phrase, "In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity."

3. In 1800, Congress approved the use of the Capitol building as a church. Both chambers approved the measure, with president of the Senate, Thomas Jefferson, giving the approval in that chamber. Throughout his terms as both vice president and president, Jefferson attended church at the Capitol, including Jan. 3, 1802, just two days after writing his infamous letter in which he penned the phrase "the wall of separation between church and state." Nearly 100 years later, in 1892, in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, the United States Supreme Court held that America is a "Christian nation."

4. Presidents Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Jackson, McKinley, Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson, Hoover, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Reagan all referenced the importance of Judeo-Christian principles in the birth and growth of our country. In fact, President Franklin Roosevelt led our nation in a six-minute prayer before the invasion of Normandy, the greatest military invasion in history where freedom was protected for the world, asking God to preserve our Christian civilization. After that great war, Congress came together and jointly recognized that our strength was not in our weapons, our economic institutions, or the wisdom of our committees—it is in God. Congress therefore adopted "In God We Trust" as our national motto and it was engraved in the wall in front of which the speaker of the House of Representatives stands.

5. …While America has always welcomed individuals of diverse faiths and nonfaith, we have never ceased to be a Judeo-Christian nation. That small minority could tear references of faith off of every building and document across our nation, but it would not change the fact that we were built on Judeo-Christian principles. Indeed, these beliefs are so interwoven into the tapestry of freedom and liberty upon which our nation is built that to begin to unravel one is to begin to unravel the other.”
Obama Is Wrong When He Says We're Not a Judeo-Christian Nation - US News and World Report


Happy Easter and Passover to all.

Aren't you a Billy Graham fan?

Nixon aide H.R. Haldeman first mentioned Graham's anti-Semitic remarks in a 1994 book, which Graham strongly denied. But when audio tapes from the Nixon White House were released in 2002, Graham could be heard referring to Jews as pornographers and agreeing with Nixon that the U.S. media was dominated by liberal Jews and could send the United States "down the drain."

'They're the ones putting out the pornographic stuff,'' Graham said to Nixon - "the Jewish stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain,'' he continued.

Graham also confided in Nixon that he hid his true feelings about Jews from them: ''I go and I keep friends with Mr. Rosenthal (then executive editor) at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And all -- I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country.

 

[ding]

For those neither Jewish nor Christian, we fortunately have a First Amendment which protects all citizens from the authoritarianism exhibited by conservatives in general, and the OP in particular.

In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State."

Everson v. Board of Education of the Township of Ewing

[T]he First Amendment rests upon the premise that both religion and government can best work to achieve their lofty aims if each is left free from the other within its respective sphere. Or, as we said in the Everson case, the First Amendment has erected a wall between Church and State which must be kept high and impregnable.

Illinois ex rel. McCollum v. Board of Education of School District

Perhaps in the early days of the Republic [the Establishment Clause was] understood to protect only the diversity within Christianity, but today they are recognized as guaranteeing religious liberty and equality to "the infidel, the atheist, or the adherent of a non-Christian faith such as Islam or Judaism." Wallace v. Jaffee, 472 U. at 52. [n39] It is settled law that no government official in this Nation may violate these fundamental constitutional rights regarding matters of conscience. Id. at 49.

County of Allegheny v. American Civil Liberties Union, Greater Pittsburgh Chapter

Clearly, therefore, it was the original intent of the Framers, as expressed in the Constitution and its case law, where the Constitution exists only in the context of that case law, that the ‘majority faith’ is utterly irrelevant with regard to official policy, procedure, or codification of statues by Federal, state, or local jurisdictions.

With regard to the president’s comments during a joint press conference in Turkey 4/6/2009, this is what Obama actually said, in context:

That's something that's very important to me. And I've said before that one of the great strengths of the United States is -- although as I mentioned, we have a very large Christian population, we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation; we consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values.

I think Turkey was -- modern Turkey was founded with a similar set of principles, and yet what we're seeing is in both countries that promise of a secular country that is respectful of religious freedom, respectful of rule of law, respectful of freedom, upholding these values and being willing to stand up for them in the international stage. If we are joined together in delivering that message, East and West, to -- to the world, then I think that we can have an extraordinary impact. And I'm very much looking forward to that partnership in the days to come.

Joint Press Availability With President Obama And President Gul Of Turkey | The White House

Thus the OP is a liar when she claims the president said we are not a ‘Judeo-Christian’ Nation, as the president never used the phrase ‘Judeo-Christian.’

What the president said is correct:

We are not a Christian Nation. Period

We are not a Jewish Nation. Period.

We are not a Muslim Nation. Period.

“[W]e consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values.”

Indeed.

And those ideals and set of values are not established on a particular religious dogma, but a respect for all religions, and those free from faith, where one need not fear the tyranny of a religious majority.

"This question was asked by political science professors at the University of Houston. They rightfully felt that they could determine the source of the Founders’ ideas if they could collect the writings from the Founding Era and see whom the Founders were quoting.

The researchers assembled 15,000 writings from the founding Era – no small sample – and searched those writings. That project spanned ten years; but at the end of that time, the researchers had isolated 3,154 direct quotes made by the Founders and had identified the source of those quotes.

The researchers discovered that Baron Charles de Montesquieu was the man quoted most often by the founding fathers, with 8.3 percent of the Founders’ quotes being taken from his writings. Sir William Blackstone was the second most-quoted individual with 7.9 percent of the Founder’s quotes, and John Locke was third with 2.9 percent.

Surprisingly, the researchers discovered that the founders quoted directly out of the bible 4 times more than they quoted Montesquieu, 4 times more often than they quoted Blackstone, and 12 times more often than they quoted John Locke. Thirty four percent of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the bible.

The study was even more impressive when the source of the ideas used by Montesquieu, Blackstone, and Locke were identified. Consider for example, the source of Blackstone’s ideas. Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws was first introduced in 1768, and for the next 100 years America’s courts quoted Blackstone to settle disputes, to define words, and to examine procedure; Blackstone’s Commentaries were the final word in the Supreme Courts. So what was a significant source of Blackstone’s ideas? Perhaps the best answer to that question can be given through the life of Charles Finney.

Charles Finney is known as a famous revivalist, minister, and preacher from one of America’s greatest revivals; the Second Great Awakening in the early 1800’s. Finney, in his autobiography, spoke of how he received his call to ministry. He explained that – having determined to become a lawyer – he, like all other law students at the time, commenced the study of Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws. Finney observed that Blackstone’s Commentaries not only provided the laws, it also provided the Biblical concepts on which those laws were based. Finney explained that in the process of studying Blackstone, he read so much of the Bible that he became a Christian and received his call to the ministry. Finney’s life story clearly identified a major source of Blackstone’s ideas for law.

So, while 34% of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the Bible, many of their quotes were taken from men – like Blackstone – who had used the Bible to arrive at their own conclusions.”

This doesn’t even include Supreme Court decisions, Congressional records, speeches, inaugurations, etc. all of which include sources of Biblical content and concepts. I can produce those as well, if need be ,as well as what was taught in American schools for the first 175 years.

Bear in mind, the above is not some made up opinion, it is well documented, irrefutable research into actual quotes from the Founders.


Sources:

David Barton, Original Intent, 1997

Donald Lutz, The Origins of American Constitutionalism 1988

“The Relative Influence of European Writers on Late Eighteenth Century American Political Thought” American Political Science Review

One Nation Under God: Alexis de Tocqueville

Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country. Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief. I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society. In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth. In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom. The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims.