The Homosexual Agenda, The aclu, And Your Children...

[AllieBaba]

I beg to differ. Can you show how they're different?

 

[Shogun]

Can you show how they are even close to being the same?

after all, YOU are the one making the comparison.


But Ill bite..
Tolerance towards christians is already a reality in school. Last I heard you didn't have to hide your christianity when attending a public forum in fear of being treated like matthiew sheppherd.

You are not asking for a similar tolerance towards christians as the gays are asking for when acknowledging that theirs is not a choice (like yours is)

What YOU are asking for is to indoctrinate kids into your belief system using a public forum. Now, you might be onto something if public school were actively recruiting kids into a gay lifestyle. However, since public schools couldn't TURN anyone gay any more than I could turn YOU gay your comparison falls on it's face.

You can't use every new issue that chaffes your religion's sense of hatred as a bargaining chip for instilling your dogma into public schools. No one is out treating christians like your church openly treats gays. That is the difference. christians used the same shit to rationalize away rights for women and minorities and this is the exact same pattern of behaviour.


Now, pray tell. educate me on how, exactly, acknowledging that homosexuality is not a choice is in any way similar to keeping prothetization out of schools.


feel free to touch on why it's not fair to teach about gravity and evolution if we don't also allow flat earth theory and creationism too.. I've got an answer ready for ya there too.

 

[AllieBaba]

Actually, no, I'm not proposing that fundamentalists be allowed in the school to indoctrinate. You are proposing that gays be allowed into the school to indoctrinate. I am simply saying, you let one in, you let the other in.

And you're assumption that it "can't be helped" has nothing to do with reality. It has been proven, ad nauseum, that gayness is a choice, not a biological fact. Just like being Christian is a choice, not a biological fact.

And if you think there's an air of "tolerance" towards out-of-the closet Christians in today's public schools, you're so far off the mark I don't even know how to reach you.

 

[Larkinn]

If we allow homosexuals to indoctrinate our children, we should allow right-wing fundamentalists in to teach the bible as well.

Shall we go there? It will mean rioting in the grade schools. Can't have one without the other.

Homosexuality isn't a religion.

It has been proven, ad nauseum, that gayness is a choice, not a biological fact.

Incorrect.

And if you think there's an air of "tolerance" towards out-of-the closet Christians in today's public schools, you're so far off the mark I don't even know how to reach you.

Are you honestly asserting the claim that Christians are discriminated in US schools?

 

[AllieBaba]

Really?

Name a study that has proven it's biological. Homosexuality is a choice, just like religion.

Hamer couldn't prove otherwise. In fact, Hamer, an openly gay man trying to prove a point, stated that lesbianism was entirely cultural. And when he tried to prove it was otherwise with men, he failed to do so. He did open the door for more studies, which proved conclusively that there's not hardwiring to gays.
Brian Mustanski, University of Illinois, Chicago, conducted a study which proved there is "no statistical findings to support" the gene theory.
Daryl Bern 2000 study showed there was zero relationship between genotype and sexual orientation in men (again, women are not addressed because NOBODY believes they're hardwired.)
The Human Genome Project, supported by the US Department of Energy (why, I have no idea) and the National Institute of Health, blasted any correlation between genetics and homosexuality.
The Department of Neurological Sciences in Canada and Stanford's Dept. of Genetics have said the data does not support the presence of a gene of large effect influencing sexual orientation.
Dr. Richard Pillard, a pschiatric professor at Boston University's school of medicine, says "Sexuality is greatly influenced by environment, and that the role of genetics is, in the end, limited."

There's absolutely nothing which supports the statement that genetics or biology "cause" homosexuality. Get over it. The only people who argue for it anymore are the people who just don't know. You won't find it being seriously debated by great minds anymore.

And yeah, Christians are discriminated against in schools. By teachers, administration and students alike.

 

[Shogun]

Actually, no, I'm not proposing that fundamentalists be allowed in the school to indoctrinate. You are proposing that gays be allowed into the school to indoctrinate. I am simply saying, you let one in, you let the other in.

And you're assumption that it "can't be helped" has nothing to do with reality. It has been proven, ad nauseum, that gayness is a choice, not a biological fact. Just like being Christian is a choice, not a biological fact.

And if you think there's an air of "tolerance" towards out-of-the closet Christians in today's public schools, you're so far off the mark I don't even know how to reach you.

No, you won't find a single post of mine that says that gays should indoctrinate or recruit kids to the gay lifestyle. You see, I'm not dense enough to believe that exposure to the REALITY of homosexuality will *POOF* torn someone gay. If you can quote me then be my guest...


And no, just saying "if you teach on then you must teach the other" doesn't make sense either. So, let's turn this back onto you.. If we allow christianity then we ALSO let the hindus' and the muslims and, just because I'm feeling saucy, some good ole SANTARIA VOODOO in to be taught ON PAR with christiany... all of a sudden it doesn't sound so intersting anymore, eh?

Again, since YOU are the one making the direct comparison between being tolorant towards gays and indocrination can YOU show me how they compare without falling back on simple mantras like "one then the other'?

NO, it has not been proven, Allie. Maybe at bob jones university but not out in the consensus of the real world. Sorry. Maybe you'd like to show your evidence that it has been PROVEN so that I can laugh and then pick apart your "evidence"? by all means.. shock this monkey.

Indeed, you CHOSE to be a christian. Ill ask again, ad nauseum, WHAT AGE DID YOU SHOOSE TO BE STRAIT? be specific because I want to hear about how this DECISION presented itself among your viable apparent choices..


out of the closet christians?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

the majoiryt of the fucking public school going population ARE CHRISTIANS. this isnt rome. you can lay off the martyrdom routine. give me a fucking break.

So, who was the last christian to be dragged behind a truck again? I just don't recall that a single christian has been tortured for being a christian in the last decade so refresh my memory since you want to ASSIMILATE a phrase associated with the very social stigma that christians forced onto gays by making them actually have to hide their sexuality.

out of the closet christians.. oh man.. I've heard everything today!

 

[Shogun]

Really?

Name a study that has proven it's biological. Homosexuality is a choice, just like religion.

And yeah, Christians are discriminated against in schools. By teachers, administration and students alike.

you know, insisting in your opinion doesn't make it true. YOU are the one asserting things here. Let's see YOUR evidence that homosexuality is not biological.


while you are at it go ahead and whip out the last matthiew sheppherd scenario that killed and tortured some christian because of their faith.


I assure you... being told you cannot prothletise in public schools is NOT treating you like lionfood. It's REAL dramatic and may fill the tithing buckets but, in the context of history, its laughable..



Hey, Im out for the day, Allie... it was a fun day! I look forward to your answers tomorrow.

Have a great evening!

 

[AllieBaba]

Proof provided, upon edit, below. Though I'm not required to provide proof, necessarily, if I'm simply disputing a claim for which you haven't provided proof.

But proof I have provided, regardless, for your reading pleasure. Ciao.

 

[Larkinn]

Really?

Name a study that has proven it's biological. Homosexuality is a choice, just like religion.

Hamer couldn't prove otherwise. In fact, Hamer, an openly gay man trying to prove a point, stated that lesbianism was entirely cultural. And when he tried to prove it was otherwise with men, he failed to do so. He did open the door for more studies, which proved conclusively that there's not hardwiring to gays.
Brian Mustanski, University of Illinois, Chicago, conducted a study which proved there is "no statistical findings to support" the gene theory.
Daryl Bern 2000 study showed there was zero relationship between genotype and sexual orientation in men (again, women are not addressed because NOBODY believes they're hardwired.)
The Human Genome Project, supported by the US Department of Energy (why, I have no idea) and the National Institute of Health, blasted any correlation between genetics and homosexuality.
The Department of Neurological Sciences in Canada and Stanford's Dept. of Genetics have said the data does not support the presence of a gene of large effect influencing sexual orientation.
Dr. Richard Pillard, a pschiatric professor at Boston University's school of medicine, says "Sexuality is greatly influenced by environment, and that the role of genetics is, in the end, limited."

There's absolutely nothing which supports the statement that genetics or biology "cause" homosexuality. Get over it. The only people who argue for it anymore are the people who just don't know. You won't find it being seriously debated by great minds anymore.

Are you serious? I mean I know logic can be hard, but this particular principle isn't complicated and is really quite intuitive. Here you go : Lack of evidence for a proposition is NOT evidence against it. Keep in mind that while there is no proof it is genetic there is also no proof it is a choice . Hence, by your reasoning, it is true that it is both a choice AND genetic...which is why, in part, your reasoning is so flawed.

By the way...there are numerous very intelligent biologists proposing theories in evolutuon for homosexuality...hardly a reason to think that everyone has concluded that its purely environmental.

And yeah, Christians are discriminated against in schools. By teachers, administration and students alike.

Care to give some examples? As there is such rampant discrimination going on, I'm sure you can give me some names of some poor Christian folk who have been discriminated against.

 

[AllieBaba]

There's more proof against it being hardwired than there is for it, and I've listed several prestigious sources which agree. I'm a little unclear on the whole, "gayness is hardwired" is NOT an opinion but fact, while "gayness is not hardwired" backed up by science is opinion.

Christian discrimination in schools. Back in a flash.
Here:
School asks student to replace Bible reading with book about witches
Rusty Pugh
OneNewsNow.com
September 6, 2007

In one Pennsylvania public school, reading from the Bible is forbidden -- but reading about witches and Halloween is encouraged.

Wesley Busch is a kindergarten student at Culbertson Elementary School in Newton Square, Pennsylvania -- and all he wanted to do was have his mother read aloud from his favorite book, the Bible. The book reading was part of a classroom assignment called "All About Me," the purpose of which was to provide students an opportunity to identify individual interests and learn about each other through the use of items such as stuffed animals, posters, books and other mediums.

Jeremy Tedesco, legal counsel with the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF), says the school district had a big problem with Wesley's favorite book. "When Wesley told his mom 'I want you to read the Bible, that's my favorite book,' the school said no -- even though they let every other book reading go forward," the attorney explains. "And even though they told Mrs. Busch 'no, you can't read the Bible,' [they said] 'but here, read this book on witches and Halloween instead,'" says Tedesco.

In May, a federal court sided with the school and the case is now on appeal. Tedesco says public school officials need to understand that Christian students cannot be treated as second-class citizens.
"The lower court's decision said that it was okay to restrict the Bible. But the bottom line is that Christian students and their parents aren't second-class citizens at school, and shouldn't be discriminated against based on their religious speech that they want to engage in when they're invited to engage in private expression," he says.

According to ADF, although reading from the Bible was forbidden the teacher allowed another parent to discuss the Jewish religious holidays of Passover and Hanukkah with the class.

All Original Content Copyright 2006-2007

And the Chicago Sun-Times ran a story about a school in Illinois that tried to eradicate any reference/symbol of Christmas because it was offensive to Muslims.

"Earlier this month, the district's top official called on principals to tone down holiday celebrations after complaints the activities offend some Muslim families."

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/587655,CST-NWS-oaklawn04.article

They changed their tune. But if there hadn't been a huge outcry, they would have just done it.

 

[Larkinn]

There's more proof against it being hardwired than there is for it, and I've listed several prestigious sources which agree.

Actually this is incorrect. There is NO proof against it, while there is some proof for it. As I've already stated, abscence of proof for something is not proof that its false.

Christian discrimination in schools. Back in a flash.

Can't wait.

 

[doniston]

And you're assumption that it "can't be helped" has nothing to do with reality. It has been proven, ad nauseum, that gayness is a choice, not a biological fact.

QUOTE]You are absolutely wrong. no such thing has been proven. whether it is biological or not, is still up in the air.

It is true that Gay actions are a choice, but not gayNESS.

 

[doniston]

You lie about me again. I was not with buddies.

I was attracted to one young man years ago. It was just one incident. Aside from that, a while ago, I thought (note the past tense) that it should be okay for consenting adults, even of the same family, to have sex. Oh well.

People of this board: Don’t trust what Pale Rider says about me. Search the posts for yourself or ask me directly. I have nothing to hide.

he exagerates everything he reads and litterally makes mountains out of molehils. The only thing he doesn't exagerate is his obvious leanings to the gay side. he tries to hide that. but it still leaks thru.

"Methinks he protestith muchly"

 

[doniston]

Simply not proven to be biological. And of those that MIGHT be biologically wired that way it is something on the order of 2 percent. I am sure we can now argue that pologamy be allowed as well, after all it is segregation and it is discrimation based on sex.

Claiming homosexuals are the same as blacks is the most ignorant of claims. It does not stand up to the light of day.

Further claiming that if the Government ONLY preformed civil Unions that would some how be separate but equal is moronic on its face. IF everyone has the same exact option, it is hardly separate, but do keep pretending otherwise, Mr. Mensa.

I will I see have to start supporting a Constitutional amendment stating MArriage is between a man and a woman. Then you can whine all you want, it won't matter at all. You won't even be able to play word games then.

But it would never ever fly, because sooner or later someone in the process would chance upon a dictionary, and find "Lo and behold" that marriage is the joining of two or more "ANYTHINGS" it is not just between people, or a man and a woman.

 

[AllieBaba]

Zero relationship between genotype and sexual orientation in men, according to the Bern study of 2000. Sounds like proof to me.

"Data do not support" genetic influence of homosexuality, according to Dept. of Neurological Sciences and Stanford's Dept. of Genetics.

Don't sound like opinions to me.

 

[Larkinn]

Got links?

 

[AllieBaba]

I've provided you with the names of the studies, the results and the players, that's enough work for me. If you still doubt, look them up.

Here's a link to Bern to get you started:
http://dbem.ws/Exotic%20Becomes Erotic.pdf

 

[Larkinn]

The "Bern study" doesn't pop up on Google. That and really, if you want to support a position do your own work. You made the claim, so ostensibly you have some idea where it came from, so back it up.

 

[jillian]

Zero relationship between genotype and sexual orientation in men, according to the Bern study of 2000. Sounds like proof to me.

"Data do not support" genetic influence of homosexuality, according to Dept. of Neurological Sciences and Stanford's Dept. of Genetics.

Don't sound like opinions to me.

That actually isn't what Bern's study says at all. While, of course, there is no specific single "gay gene", Bern hypothesizes that it is a complex interaction of predisposition and environment. Gee.... wonder where I heard that one before?

http://books.google.com/books?id=yE...ts=KnIUv-Jjz_&sig=cpbnLK3nZQXdCtZdwQigDFB-ZPo

 

[AllieBaba]

The "Bern study" doesn't pop up on Google. That and really, if you want to support a position do your own work. You made the claim, so ostensibly you have some idea where it came from, so back it up.

Actually, no, the claim has been made repeatedly that homosexuality isn't a choice. But there's no proof that it's true, and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.