The Harley Mistique

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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Pittsburgh
Giving thought to replacing my Goldwing, and being in the September of my years (67), I have given lot of thought to buying my first Harley Davidson. It is the thing to do, after all. An "American" bike, with an American sound, and all that.

Being a Harley owner makes one a member of an informal fraternity, and if you want it, a member of the Harley Owner's Group, which sponsors more motorcycle-related events and causes than any other similar group in the country.

And in addition to the cultural stuff, and assuming that the Motor Company has gotten past all of the quality bugaboos that plagued it during the AMF years and for many years thereafter, the question becomes, whether it actually makes sense to buy one. As pure motorcycles, Harley's are questionable, at best. They are relatively slow, don't handle well, and cost a lot to maintain.

The three things that Harley owners grasp onto are, (1) the unique sound, (2) low-rpm torque, and (3) the reputed high re-sale values. The sound truly is unique, and I have to admit that once you get a "taste" for it, there is nothing else (among motorcycles) that sounds as good as a full-throated Harley pulling away from a stop sign. The torque? Well, that's another story. There are several "metric cruisers" that have similar torque characteristics - maybe better, so that the torque is just a trait of high-displacement V-twins, not some special Harley advantage.

And the high re-sale value may be difficult to realize, in actual practice. Harley's carry higher initial prices as new bikes (seldom discounted by dealers), that carry forward over the years. But people buying a used Harley EXPECT to see expensive aftermarket pipes, seats, and chrome hardware - without which you will have a difficult time selling it at all - so that re-sale price advantage may disappear completely. You pay (typically) $20 thousand for the bike, add $4 thousand in aftermarket doo-dads, and sell it for $12 thousand four years later. Compare that with, say, a Honda VTX 1800 that cost half as much new and will sell for $6 thousand four years later, and the prospective buyer doesn't really need to see all that after-market garbage. So that Harley is worth twice as much after four years, but you have more than twice as much into it.

And without any doubt at all, the Honda VTX is every bit as good a motorcycle as the comparable Harley.

As a final note, one must also consider Harley's two significant drawbacks: The vibration and the heat. The vibration issue is one that Harley long ago gave up on solving. Their "solution" is to mount the engines in rubber, so you don't notice it as much. But you still can't see anything in your rear view mirrors when stopped in traffic on a Harley. Second, since Harley's are air cooled, the heat wafting up from the engine can be debilitating to the rider when traveling in traffic. Sometimes the engine actually over-heats and you have to pull over and let it cool off for half an hour. Both of these are incredible shortcomings in "modern" motorcycles that are sold at premium prices, and Harley owners just accept them because they know it won't change in their lifetime.

So after trying several Harley's over the past couple weeks, I simply could not see laying out a premium price for a very marginal product. My Kawasaki Vaquero is simply a better motorcycle than the comparable Harley's (Electra Glide Standard or Road Glide), and I got it for much less money than the comparable Harley would have cost. And it sounds great as well. I guess I'll never own a Harley. This is probably going to be my last bike.

Specifically, I got a 2011 Vaquero with 11k miles on it, absolutely better than new (aftermarket pipes, Corbin seats, plus, plus, plus) for $9,300. A comparable EGlide standard would have been at least $15k from a dealer.
 
So you decided to ride a motorcycle, rather than hopping onto a bandwagon, huh?

Good for you.
 
The disgusting noise made should, and will one day, be forbidden.
 
Giving thought to replacing my Goldwing, and being in the September of my years (67), I have given lot of thought to buying my first Harley Davidson. It is the thing to do, after all. An "American" bike, with an American sound, and all that.

Being a Harley owner makes one a member of an informal fraternity, and if you want it, a member of the Harley Owner's Group, which sponsors more motorcycle-related events and causes than any other similar group in the country.

And in addition to the cultural stuff, and assuming that the Motor Company has gotten past all of the quality bugaboos that plagued it during the AMF years and for many years thereafter, the question becomes, whether it actually makes sense to buy one. As pure motorcycles, Harley's are questionable, at best. They are relatively slow, don't handle well, and cost a lot to maintain.

The three things that Harley owners grasp onto are, (1) the unique sound, (2) low-rpm torque, and (3) the reputed high re-sale values. The sound truly is unique, and I have to admit that once you get a "taste" for it, there is nothing else (among motorcycles) that sounds as good as a full-throated Harley pulling away from a stop sign. The torque? Well, that's another story. There are several "metric cruisers" that have similar torque characteristics - maybe better, so that the torque is just a trait of high-displacement V-twins, not some special Harley advantage.

And the high re-sale value may be difficult to realize, in actual practice. Harley's carry higher initial prices as new bikes (seldom discounted by dealers), that carry forward over the years. But people buying a used Harley EXPECT to see expensive aftermarket pipes, seats, and chrome hardware - without which you will have a difficult time selling it at all - so that re-sale price advantage may disappear completely. You pay (typically) $20 thousand for the bike, add $4 thousand in aftermarket doo-dads, and sell it for $12 thousand four years later. Compare that with, say, a Honda VTX 1800 that cost half as much new and will sell for $6 thousand four years later, and the prospective buyer doesn't really need to see all that after-market garbage. So that Harley is worth twice as much after four years, but you have more than twice as much into it.

And without any doubt at all, the Honda VTX is every bit as good a motorcycle as the comparable Harley.

As a final note, one must also consider Harley's two significant drawbacks: The vibration and the heat. The vibration issue is one that Harley long ago gave up on solving. Their "solution" is to mount the engines in rubber, so you don't notice it as much. But you still can't see anything in your rear view mirrors when stopped in traffic on a Harley. Second, since Harley's are air cooled, the heat wafting up from the engine can be debilitating to the rider when traveling in traffic. Sometimes the engine actually over-heats and you have to pull over and let it cool off for half an hour. Both of these are incredible shortcomings in "modern" motorcycles that are sold at premium prices, and Harley owners just accept them because they know it won't change in their lifetime.

So after trying several Harley's over the past couple weeks, I simply could not see laying out a premium price for a very marginal product. My Kawasaki Vaquero is simply a better motorcycle than the comparable Harley's (Electra Glide Standard or Road Glide), and I got it for much less money than the comparable Harley would have cost. And it sounds great as well. I guess I'll never own a Harley. This is probably going to be my last bike.

Specifically, I got a 2011 Vaquero with 11k miles on it, absolutely better than new (aftermarket pipes, Corbin seats, plus, plus, plus) for $9,300. A comparable EGlide standard would have been at least $15k from a dealer.

In my salad days only bought rice burners because they were very fast. Recently in my Golden Years gave serious thought about buying a FatMan with a faring and skirt clips. I am still thinking about it but then I think about asphalt rheumatism.
 
Harley bikes do have a unique exhaust note. The problem being Harley owners LOVE to sit at intersections and just rev it up.
"Look at me!" or "I can't tell if my engine is running". Both reasons are retarded.
 
"there is nothing else (among motorcycles) that sounds as good as a full-throated Harley pulling away from a stop sign." It should be legal to shoot those bastards. How little can your dick be to need that level of attention?

I'm a long time rider, 45 years, my thoughts on Harleys: They are well made today. I've known a few guys that had electronic glitches but the shops are good at taking care of it.

They look great but are heavy and slow with poor ground clearance. They are for putting along, which is fine, great gas mileage to boot but the brotherhood thing to me is like what we did as kids. Join a club and have secret decoder rings and all that.

Many Harley riders are all about image and can't ride worth shit. They will bobble around in the mountains, ride in dense packs, SLOWLY, try to block you from passing (to salvage the aforementioned little dicks) use their rear brakes almost exclusively, wear apparel designed to impress toddlers with no safety concerns whatsoever. But it's their skin, if they can pay for it.

The bikes are great for what they are though, if I was rich I would have one for putting around but that's not typical for me. I'm not the opposite extreme either though, the crotch rocket guys are almost as bad.
 
Plenty of good bikes out there, Harleys are over priced to be sure, but the vibration and heat problems were resolved long ago. AMF years were put to bed ages ago, yeah, those were crap for sure. 2011 CVO Street Glide is wonderful, keeping it, never paid much attention to the "informal fraternity" pack animal bullshit, bikes are about solitude for me. '98 Dyna Glide before that, 2003 Road King before that. Wouldn't spend a dime on anything else H-D such as clothing, leathers, boots, jeans, anything else.

Two wheels is two wheels, after that it's all personal preference.
 
"there is nothing else (among motorcycles) that sounds as good as a full-throated Harley pulling away from a stop sign." It should be legal to shoot those bastards. How little can your dick be to need that level of attention?

I'm a long time rider, 45 years, my thoughts on Harleys: They are well made today. I've known a few guys that had electronic glitches but the shops are good at taking care of it.

They look great but are heavy and slow with poor ground clearance. They are for putting along, which is fine, great gas mileage to boot but the brotherhood thing to me is like what we did as kids. Join a club and have secret decoder rings and all that.

Many Harley riders are all about image and can't ride worth shit. They will bobble around in the mountains, ride in dense packs, SLOWLY, try to block you from passing (to salvage the aforementioned little dicks) use their rear brakes almost exclusively, wear apparel designed to impress toddlers with no safety concerns whatsoever. But it's their skin, if they can pay for it.

The bikes are great for what they are though, if I was rich I would have one for putting around but that's not typical for me. I'm not the opposite extreme either though, the crotch rocket guys are almost as bad.

Get ta shooting big boy.
 
Harley bikes do have a unique exhaust note. The problem being Harley owners LOVE to sit at intersections and just rev it up.
"Look at me!" or "I can't tell if my engine is running". Both reasons are retarded.

A murdercycle rider never does that at a stop light unless he sees a car or bike he wants to challenge. Harley is they way to ride in style. Please don't put the screaming skull on the gas tank.
 
It is not necessary for a Harley to have loud pipes to sound good. Even the stock exhaust has that unique cadence and tone - one which the Japanese have been trying for decades to copy.

I disagree that the vibration and heat issues were resolved a long time ago. The now-defunct V-Rod had a well balanced motor and the newest ones (The "Milwaukee Eight") have minimized the vibration, but for all other Harley's their only solution is to mount them in rubber. And they now have heat shields to protect the rider's legs, but that's not really solving the problem, it's just masking it. Water-cooling is the ONLY way to go, but Harley is too hard-headed to do the right thing, for fear that their troglodyte buying public won't accept the move to modernity.
 
It isn't fear, it's marketing. People want the more traditional motors. The V rod is a good case in point. My brother had one, I rode it, unbelievable motor. It had torque just off idle and ran smooth. But they didn't sell.

The rubber mounts do help on the air cooled motor and once going they smooth out. I think some guys like the vibs too.
 
The Twin Cam is a dreadful engine, witb many serious problems. In contrast, the Evo, especially after 2003, is near flawless.
 
My question about the V-Rod is, "Why don't people ride them?" When I see them for sale, they invariably have very few miles on them. A couple thousand miles per year. Are they uncomfortable?

I really would have liked a touring bike with the V-Rod engine, but I don't think they ever sold one. Some people added bags, fairing and such, but factory would have been better.

It is interesting that the Brits were in awe of the V-Rod when it first came out. They thought it was the best bike Harley ever produced, and that it would be a smashing good sales leader.

Not so much.
 
Giving thought to replacing my Goldwing, and being in the September of my years (67), I have given lot of thought to buying my first Harley Davidson. It is the thing to do, after all. An "American" bike, with an American sound, and all that.

Being a Harley owner makes one a member of an informal fraternity, and if you want it, a member of the Harley Owner's Group, which sponsors more motorcycle-related events and causes than any other similar group in the country.

And in addition to the cultural stuff, and assuming that the Motor Company has gotten past all of the quality bugaboos that plagued it during the AMF years and for many years thereafter, the question becomes, whether it actually makes sense to buy one. As pure motorcycles, Harley's are questionable, at best. They are relatively slow, don't handle well, and cost a lot to maintain.

The three things that Harley owners grasp onto are, (1) the unique sound, (2) low-rpm torque, and (3) the reputed high re-sale values. The sound truly is unique, and I have to admit that once you get a "taste" for it, there is nothing else (among motorcycles) that sounds as good as a full-throated Harley pulling away from a stop sign. The torque? Well, that's another story. There are several "metric cruisers" that have similar torque characteristics - maybe better, so that the torque is just a trait of high-displacement V-twins, not some special Harley advantage.

And the high re-sale value may be difficult to realize, in actual practice. Harley's carry higher initial prices as new bikes (seldom discounted by dealers), that carry forward over the years. But people buying a used Harley EXPECT to see expensive aftermarket pipes, seats, and chrome hardware - without which you will have a difficult time selling it at all - so that re-sale price advantage may disappear completely. You pay (typically) $20 thousand for the bike, add $4 thousand in aftermarket doo-dads, and sell it for $12 thousand four years later. Compare that with, say, a Honda VTX 1800 that cost half as much new and will sell for $6 thousand four years later, and the prospective buyer doesn't really need to see all that after-market garbage. So that Harley is worth twice as much after four years, but you have more than twice as much into it.

And without any doubt at all, the Honda VTX is every bit as good a motorcycle as the comparable Harley.

As a final note, one must also consider Harley's two significant drawbacks: The vibration and the heat. The vibration issue is one that Harley long ago gave up on solving. Their "solution" is to mount the engines in rubber, so you don't notice it as much. But you still can't see anything in your rear view mirrors when stopped in traffic on a Harley. Second, since Harley's are air cooled, the heat wafting up from the engine can be debilitating to the rider when traveling in traffic. Sometimes the engine actually over-heats and you have to pull over and let it cool off for half an hour. Both of these are incredible shortcomings in "modern" motorcycles that are sold at premium prices, and Harley owners just accept them because they know it won't change in their lifetime.

So after trying several Harley's over the past couple weeks, I simply could not see laying out a premium price for a very marginal product. My Kawasaki Vaquero is simply a better motorcycle than the comparable Harley's (Electra Glide Standard or Road Glide), and I got it for much less money than the comparable Harley would have cost. And it sounds great as well. I guess I'll never own a Harley. This is probably going to be my last bike.

Specifically, I got a 2011 Vaquero with 11k miles on it, absolutely better than new (aftermarket pipes, Corbin seats, plus, plus, plus) for $9,300. A comparable EGlide standard would have been at least $15k from a dealer.


Have you ever driven a Harley?
 
I've always been a BMW guy and still have my old R100RS with over 275,000 miles on it. They are a smooth, smooth ride. Reliable as hell too.

r100rs-for-sale.jpg
 
I've always been a BMW guy and still have my old R100RS with over 275,000 miles on it. They are a smooth, smooth ride. Reliable as hell too.

r100rs-for-sale.jpg
I agree. My old 1973 R75/5 toaster is rock solid and a hoot to ride. Out of more than a hundred bikes through the years, it is top three in favorites!
 
I've always been a BMW guy and still have my old R100RS with over 275,000 miles on it. They are a smooth, smooth ride. Reliable as hell too.

r100rs-for-sale.jpg
Just saw this, you know about the Snowflake recall?

I have a '78/R100/7 with Lesters. For many years I had it set up like yours, sold the RS fairing last summer because the Ducati ST did what it did so I decided to make the ole girl a naked rider.

It had been probably 1979 since it was sans fairing. Mine only has 170,000 and still running strong. I did put the 81-84 front end on it, stops great with EBC HH pads!
 

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