The Great Gibson Guitar Raid. Months Later and STILL No Charges Filed

[Harry Dresden]

The Great Gibson Guitar Raid: Months Later, Still No Charges Filed - YouTube

» The Great Gibson Guitar Raid: Months Later, Still No Charges Filed - Big Government


Can you imagine the cries of Bush being Hitler had this happened under Bush? But under Obama? The liberal hypocrites turn a blind eye and just flame anyone who DARES speak against their messiah.


But here we are. Still no charges filed? No chance to go to court? And when WILL their chance to go to court happen? AFTER ELECTION DAY?


My guess is that's when it will be unless more pressure is brought to bear on the Obama administration.

These are the types of action you can always expect from democrats. One of the reasons I can not and will not side with them.

The modification of the Lacey Act that Gibson is a REPEAT violator of was passed during the BOOOOOOOOsh administration. Other quality guitar manufacturers, like Taylor Guitars, have said that they have no trouble complying with the Lacey Act so why should Gibson be given a free pass by the "rule of law" Republicans simply because Gibson is the darling of FOX/GOP News and GOP hate radio??? Charlie Redden, of Taylor Guitars, said the new rules require a bit more paperwork but are manageable.

Read more here: Green probe has guitar maker, Gibson, playing the blues | McClatchy​

Gibson is the darling of Fox and the GOP?......who told you that Rush?....can we see his Quote?.....im sure you have it somewhere.....

 

[Oldstyle]

As someone who purchases material for manufacturing for a living, if the issue here was the wood didn't meet standards, just buy some wood that does until the status of the material is resolved.

Are you saying that Gibson Guitars is so under-capitalized they can't take a loss on material? Most companies have to do that all the time.

This is the second time they've been cited for this. The first time, they should have changed their procedures to keep this from ever happening again.

What I find wrong about the Feds actions (if the CEO of Gibson is to be believed) is that one company was singled out for doing what they AND THEIR COMPETITORS are doing, one more example of this Administrations random application of the rule of law. The fact that Gibson Guitars is owned by conservatives and the competitors aren't further tarnishes this action. What also bothers me is that the "violation" that they are accused of isn't that they have illegally used some rare and endangered tree but that they didn't let Indian workers be unneeded "middlemen" in the preparing of the wood to certain standards. In essence, the Holder DOJ believes that workers in India have precedent over workers in the US and are more than willing to raid a business here to protect jobs OVER THERE.

Which brings me back to the question that I've asked many times here...why is that incompetant asshole, Holder...our Attorney General?

 

[Uncensored2008]

What I find wrong about the Feds actions (if the CEO of Gibson is to be believed) is that one company was singled out for doing what they AND THEIR COMPETITORS are doing, one more example of this Administrations random application of the rule of law. The fact that Gibson Guitars is owned by conservatives and the competitors aren't further tarnishes this action. What also bothers me is that the "violation" that they are accused of isn't that they have illegally used some rare and endangered tree but that they didn't let Indian workers be unneeded "middlemen" in the preparing of the wood to certain standards. In essence, the Holder DOJ believes that workers in India have precedent over workers in the US and are more than willing to raid a business here to protect jobs OVER THERE.

Which brings me back to the question that I've asked many times here...why is that incompetant asshole, Holder...our Attorney General?

Because that incompetent asshole Obama, is our President.

 

[edthecynic]

These are the types of action you can always expect from democrats. One of the reasons I can not and will not side with them.

The modification of the Lacey Act that Gibson is a REPEAT violator of was passed during the BOOOOOOOOsh administration. Other quality guitar manufacturers, like Taylor Guitars, have said that they have no trouble complying with the Lacey Act so why should Gibson be given a free pass by the "rule of law" Republicans simply because Gibson is the darling of FOX/GOP News and GOP hate radio??? Charlie Redden, of Taylor Guitars, said the new rules require a bit more paperwork but are manageable.

Read more here: Green probe has guitar maker, Gibson, playing the blues | McClatchy​

Gibson is the darling of Fox and the GOP?......who told you that Rush?....can we see his Quote?.....im sure you have it somewhere.....

Read the link lazybones, the crybaby ran straight to FOX and the GOP begging for special privileges his competitors didn't need.

Soon after the August raid by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Juszkiewicz went on offense, appearing on Fox News and becoming an instant celebrity in conservative circles. He attended President Barack Obama's Sept. 8 jobs speech to Congress, invited by Tennessee Republican Rep. Marsha Blackburn. House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, mentioned the Gibson case in his Sept. 15 speech that was an answer to Obama's address a week earlier.

Read more here: Green probe has guitar maker, Gibson, playing the blues | McClatchy​

 

[edthecynic]

As someone who purchases material for manufacturing for a living, if the issue here was the wood didn't meet standards, just buy some wood that does until the status of the material is resolved.

Are you saying that Gibson Guitars is so under-capitalized they can't take a loss on material? Most companies have to do that all the time.

This is the second time they've been cited for this. The first time, they should have changed their procedures to keep this from ever happening again.

What I find wrong about the Feds actions (if the CEO of Gibson is to be believed) is that one company was singled out for doing what they AND THEIR COMPETITORS are doing, one more example of this Administrations random application of the rule of law. The fact that Gibson Guitars is owned by conservatives and the competitors aren't further tarnishes this action. What also bothers me is that the "violation" that they are accused of isn't that they have illegally used some rare and endangered tree but that they didn't let Indian workers be unneeded "middlemen" in the preparing of the wood to certain standards. In essence, the Holder DOJ believes that workers in India have precedent over workers in the US and are more than willing to raid a business here to protect jobs OVER THERE.

Which brings me back to the question that I've asked many times here...why is that incompetant asshole, Holder...our Attorney General?

As I showed, their competitors say they have no trouble complying with the law, so the crybaby CEO of Gibson is not to be believed.

From my earlier post: "Charlie Redden, of Taylor Guitars, said the new rules require a bit more paperwork but are manageable."

 

[The Infidel]

The Great Gibson Guitar Raid: Months Later, Still No Charges Filed - YouTube

They…come in with weapons, they seized a half-million dollars worth of property, they shut our factory down, and they have not charged us with anything,” says Gibson Guitars CEO Henry Juszkiewicz, referring to the August 2011 raid on his Nashville and Memphis factories by agents from the Departments of Homeland Security and Fish & Wildlife.

The feds raided Gibson for using an inappropriate tariff code on wood from India, which is a violation of the anti-trafficking statute known as The Lacey Act. At issue is not whether the wood in question was endangered, but whether the wood was the correct level of thickness and finish before being exported from India. “India is wanting to ensure that raw wood is not exported without some labor content from India,” says Juskiewicz.
Andrea Johnson of the Environmental Investigation Agency (EIA) counters that “it’s not up to Gibson to decide which laws…they want to respect.” She points out that Gibson had previously been raided under The Lacey Act for imports from Madagascar.


This much is clear: The government has yet to file any charges or allow Gibson a day in court to makes its case, much less retrieve its materials.

“This is not about responsible forestry and sustainable wood or illegal logging, this is about a bureaucratic law,” argues Juszkiewicz, who testified last year before a congressional hearing convened by Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.). It is, he says, ”a blank check for abuse.”

» The Great Gibson Guitar Raid: Months Later, Still No Charges Filed - Big Government


Can you imagine the cries of Bush being Hitler had this happened under Bush? But under Obama? The liberal hypocrites turn a blind eye and just flame anyone who DARES speak against their messiah.


But here we are. Still no charges filed? No chance to go to court? And when WILL their chance to go to court happen? AFTER ELECTION DAY?


My guess is that's when it will be unless more pressure is brought to bear on the Obama administration.

This smacks of WTO agreement violation. We entered into many trade agreements during Clinton and Bush that require governments to act as agents for each other in remedying violations. Obviously India put preasure on the U S to protect/enforce a law that we agreed to honor. It could very well be that confiscating the materials is manditory and Gibson needs to take up the battle in India where the violation occurred.

Im not going to go get links to the story... do it yourself, but you are wrong.

India cant even find the agreement that the Obama regime is using to confiscate Gibsons property.

The Obama regime did this to Gibson, not India.

This is a BULLSHIT case

 

[Zander]

It stinks of political payback.

 

[The Infidel]

What I find wrong about the Feds actions (if the CEO of Gibson is to be believed) is that one company was singled out for doing what they AND THEIR COMPETITORS are doing, one more example of this Administrations random application of the rule of law. The fact that Gibson Guitars is owned by conservatives and the competitors aren't further tarnishes this action. What also bothers me is that the "violation" that they are accused of isn't that they have illegally used some rare and endangered tree but that they didn't let Indian workers be unneeded "middlemen" in the preparing of the wood to certain standards. In essence, the Holder DOJ believes that workers in India have precedent over workers in the US and are more than willing to raid a business here to protect jobs OVER THERE.

You have obviously done your homework...

I know its a waste of time with all the partisan hacks trolling threads. They are not interested in facts.

 

[The Infidel]

Right, all charges would be dropped if manufacturing was moved out of the US.

Not just out of U.S., but to India

 

[HUGGY]

The Great Gibson Guitar Raid: Months Later, Still No Charges Filed - YouTube




» The Great Gibson Guitar Raid: Months Later, Still No Charges Filed - Big Government


Can you imagine the cries of Bush being Hitler had this happened under Bush? But under Obama? The liberal hypocrites turn a blind eye and just flame anyone who DARES speak against their messiah.


But here we are. Still no charges filed? No chance to go to court? And when WILL their chance to go to court happen? AFTER ELECTION DAY?


My guess is that's when it will be unless more pressure is brought to bear on the Obama administration.

This smacks of WTO agreement violation. We entered into many trade agreements during Clinton and Bush that require governments to act as agents for each other in remedying violations. Obviously India put preasure on the U S to protect/enforce a law that we agreed to honor. It could very well be that confiscating the materials is manditory and Gibson needs to take up the battle in India where the violation occurred.

Im not going to go get links to the story... do it yourself, but you are wrong.

India cant even find the agreement that the Obama regime is using to confiscate Gibsons property.

The Obama regime did this to Gibson, not India.

This is a BULLSHIT case

The law violated is an Indian law and you claim they have nothing to do with this? That is bullshit!

 

[JoeB131]

As someone who purchases material for manufacturing for a living, if the issue here was the wood didn't meet standards, just buy some wood that does until the status of the material is resolved.

Dude, you buy crack cocaine and cut it into smaller rocks to sell on the street corner, that isn't "purchasing material for manufacturing."

Duly noted that you really don't know anything about purchasing or manufacturing.

Are you saying that Gibson Guitars is so under-capitalized they can't take a loss on material? Most companies have to do that all the time.

The Obama administration is waging war on American manufactures, the continuous harassment of Gibson is a concerted effort by the Administration to drive manufacturing and the jobs associated with out out of the United States.

Nope, we signed a trade treaty with India that Gibson violated.

Besides, the only guy I know of who sent jobs overseas is your boy, Mitt Romney. At DDi, for instance.

This is the second time they've been cited for this. The first time, they should have changed their procedures to keep this from ever happening again.

This is more than a "cite," it was a raid, due to the thickness and finish to ensure Indian workers had jobs.

Fucking Obama, pulling the bread out of American worker's mouths.

Hey, Dumbass, you rightwingers were the ones who insisted on signing all these idiot free trade treaties.

I'd end all free trade. Tomorrow. And throw huge fines on assholes who move jobs overseas. Maybe let them get pelted with rocks in the public square.

 

[MeBelle]

Extremely disappointed that some don't take the time to read the article yet take the time to sling accusations.

Shame on you!

"What's tricky about this particular case, or what's hard for people to understand, is that the wood in question wasn't necessarily illegally harvested. It was exported in (alleged) violation of an export ban," said Anne Middleton, a forest campaign researcher for the Environmental Investigation Agency, a conservation group known for its use of investigation to combat illicit trade.

Gibson argues that it has since certified with the Indian government that it hasn't violated Indian laws, and it has said the wood in question was a controlled wood that had the stamp of approval from the Forest Stewardship Council, which certifies wood products as having been sustainably harvested. The EIA issued a statement in September cautioning that Gibson does not use only certified woods.

The August raid comes after similar action in 2009 against Gibson for questions surrounding its import of ebony products from Madagascar. That case remains unresolved and is causing harm to Gibson's reputation. Gibson can't pursue legal remedies normally afforded under due process because it was subjected to high-profile seizures, but no charges have been filed. Gibson pursued civil litigation, insisting the exported wood in that case was also certified by the Madagascar government as legal

 

[Uncensored2008]

Duly noted that you really don't know anything about purchasing or manufacturing.

You should write a book, detailing your vast knowledge: "Slinging Crack, an exploration of supply chain management..."

Nope, we signed a trade treaty with India that Gibson violated.

Really? Got so much as a shred of evidence to support your claim? Notice that the Administration has yet to show any evidence.

Besides, the only guy I know of who sent jobs overseas is your boy, Mitt Romney. At DDi, for instance.

That's because you're as stupid as a pile of bricks..

{GE moving X-ray business to China. What message is sent to U.S.?}

GE moving X-ray business to China. What message is sent to U.S.? – Cafferty File - CNN.com Blogs

Well fuck, that's your little tin god's "Job Czar."

Obama - putting America out of work!

Hey, Dumbass, you rightwingers were the ones who insisted on signing all these idiot free trade treaties.

Yep, you communists prefer slave trade...

I'd end all free trade.

Of course you would, you're a dumbfuck communist.

Tomorrow. And throw huge fines on assholes who move jobs overseas. Maybe let them get pelted with rocks in the public square.

Stalin butchered between 65 and 130 million - what would your goal be, of your fellow Americans to murder?

 

[paulitician]

Big Brother at his worst. Why do so many want to just hand all their Freedom & Liberty over to Big Brother? It's so sad & perplexing.

 

[bitterlyclingin]

Just putting a friend's competitor out of business, the Chicago Way.

 

[waltky]

More partial to Fender guitars myself, with the exception of the Gibson SG...

Gibson Guitar case drags on with no sign of criminal charges
April 12, 2012 - It was seven months ago that federal agents with guns drawn raided the Gibson guitar factories in Nashville and Memphis. A half million dollars worth of Indian rosewood and ebony was seized under the premise that it had been imported illegally. The feds also took a number of guitars and computer hard drives. The factory was shut down for the day and employees told to go home.

Yet after all this time, the Department of Justice has shown no sign that it will file criminal charges against Gibson. What’s more – it has been almost 3 years since federal agents first raided Gibson (November 2009), seizing a quantity of wood from Madagascar. No decision on criminal charges in that case either. Meantime, the DOJ has blocked a civil court case in which Gibson was appealing to get its wood back while the criminal investigation proceeds. Or doesn’t.

Gibson CEO Henry Juszkiewicz complains that being in legal limbo with the federal government has had a profound effect on his business. “While we are waiting to even get charges”, he told Fox News, “they have taken very aggressive action that has hurt our company significantly. And we have no recourse at this point.”
Some former federal prosecutors contacted by Fox News say it’s not unusual for a case – particularly an environmental one – to take a while before a charging decision is made.

But Michael Mukasey – Attorney-General in the last Bush administration says this case should have been decided on long ago. He told Fox News, “Certainly three years since the 2009 raid and even, going on a year since the 2011 raid is more than enough time. This is not brain surgery.” Federal agents seized the wood under suspected violations of the Lacey Act, which governs trade in endangered plants and animals. Since the raid last August, several federal lawmakers, both Republican and Democrat have moved to make amendments to the law to bring more clarity to its application regarding musical instruments. The intention of the Lacey Act is twofold. To protect endangered species of wood overseas and to protect American forest product companies from unfair foreign competition.

Since there is no domestic source of ebony or rosewood, and the Indian woods are not endangered, Gibson claims it is being unfairly punished by an improper application of the Lacey Act. “We’re a domestic manufacturer”, says Juszkiewicz. “There are many manufacturers in China who don’t have the same issues to deal with. And so we’re at a competitive disadvantage and long term, you know – our business will suffer. And possibly quite severely.”

Read more: Gibson Guitar case drags on with no sign of criminal charges | Fox News

 

[bripat9643]

As someone who purchases material for manufacturing for a living, if the issue here was the wood didn't meet standards, just buy some wood that does until the status of the material is resolved.

Are you saying that Gibson Guitars is so under-capitalized they can't take a loss on material? Most companies have to do that all the time.

This is the second time they've been cited for this. The first time, they should have changed their procedures to keep this from ever happening again.

It's expropriation of private property, you fucking moron.

Have you ever heard of something called "a fair trial?" Ever hear of the 5th Amendment?

Why is it that libturds never have a problem with bureaucrats behaving like Nazis and utterly trashing the Constitution?

 

[bripat9643]

You're comparing the Patriot Act (I thought that was an outrage now Obama's in charge?) to the gov't checking to see whether a company is following regulations? Pub dupe idiocy.

It didn't "check," numskull. It expropriated their property without a trial.

 

[bripat9643]

This smacks of WTO agreement violation. We entered into many trade agreements during Clinton and Bush that require governments to act as agents for each other in remedying violations. Obviously India put preasure on the U S to protect/enforce a law that we agreed to honor. It could very well be that confiscating the materials is manditory and Gibson needs to take up the battle in India where the violation occurred.

Only a true idiot would believe some trade agreement gives the US federal government the authority to violate the Bill of Rights.

What a bunch of fucking morons.

 

[JoeB131]

As someone who purchases material for manufacturing for a living, if the issue here was the wood didn't meet standards, just buy some wood that does until the status of the material is resolved.

Are you saying that Gibson Guitars is so under-capitalized they can't take a loss on material? Most companies have to do that all the time.

This is the second time they've been cited for this. The first time, they should have changed their procedures to keep this from ever happening again.

It's expropriation of private property, you fucking moron.

Have you ever heard of something called "a fair trial?" Ever hear of the 5th Amendment?

Why is it that libturds never have a problem with bureaucrats behaving like Nazis and utterly trashing the Constitution?

No, there's a whole list of trade agreements and regulations that Gibson obviously didn't comply with. Shame on them.

Not working up a whole lot of sympathy here.