The Great Depression - why did it end?

[edthecynic]

The one who is spouting partisan hackery is you.

FDRs actions during the great depression was credited by the people who lived it as well as the vast majority of historians for pulling us out of the great depression.

You are trying to rewrite history and you have failed.

FDR was an outstanding con man. Even The Obama knows this. He said so himself: "What you see in FDR that I hope my team can emulate is, not always getting it right, but projecting a sense of confidence." That's what FDR did, projected a sense of confidence. While he was screwing up royally and making the depression worse, the folks loved him. "Projecting a sense of confidence" is what all con men do, that's why they're called that.

RUSH: Reagan was this epitome of optimism... He had confidence; he had optimism

 

[Bfgrn]

I guess technically this is history, but its so relevant to now I thought it best here.


Now that we're already into this recession, there's no point to playing the blame game any more. Especially when there is plenty of blame to be heaped on both sides.

The real question now, is how do we fix it?

Let's look to history.


The Great Depression - for what reasons did it end?

WWII ended it. The mobilizing of US industry and sudden employment of any man between the age of 18-45 was a hit of speed on the economy.

SO...it was ended by government spending

 

[editec]

A better question would be, what got us into the great depression?

Unregulated greed and protectionism.

it was more people over extending their means

but it figures you would be clueless

True...but which people were truly overextended?

INVESTORS, not consumers

Ever hear of the term MARGIN CALL?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I guess technically this is history, but its so relevant to now I thought it best here.


Now that we're already into this recession, there's no point to playing the blame game any more. Especially when there is plenty of blame to be heaped on both sides.

The real question now, is how do we fix it?

Let's look to history.


The Great Depression - for what reasons did it end?

WWII ended it. The mobilizing of US industry and sudden employment of any man between the age of 18-45 was a hit of speed on the economy.

SO...it was ended by government spending

No, the Great Depression ended after WW2.

 

[edthecynic]

FDR was seen as a HERO by the people who LIVED the great depression.

They know more about it than you can ever dream of knowing.

The economists are split right down the middle on the subject, can you guess why?

Historians are on his side by about 3/4ths.

I go with the people who lived it and the historians and half the economists.

whos on your side? half the economists and partisan hacks thats who.

Sure he was. That's how it works when you control the microphone and claim everything good as your doing.

Don't tell me what I know, idiot. Being raised by Depression Era grandparents and parents, I'd say a know a lot more about it than YOU do, so STFU.

Any historian YOU would believe is automatically no longer credible.

What FDR actually DID was create a legacy of failed government handout programs that have only survived through artificial respiration.

WWII ended the Depression. End of story. There was an immediate end to any unemployment problem and the people back here could work all the hours they wanted and make all the money they wanted and the WORLD was buying from US.

Go pound sand, huh?

You set a fine example of proper board conduct.
DiveCon certainly has taken your "style" to heart. You should be proud of yourself.

 

[editec]

The Great Depression - why did it end?

Dunno...The Great Prosac?

 

[Toro]

I guess technically this is history, but its so relevant to now I thought it best here.


Now that we're already into this recession, there's no point to playing the blame game any more. Especially when there is plenty of blame to be heaped on both sides.

The real question now, is how do we fix it?

Let's look to history.


The Great Depression - for what reasons did it end?

WWII ended it. The mobilizing of US industry and sudden employment of any man between the age of 18-45 was a hit of speed on the economy.

SO...it was ended by government spending

Yes, that was one reason.

 

[DiveCon]

A better question would be, what got us into the great depression?

Unregulated greed and protectionism.

it was more people over extending their means

but it figures you would be clueless

True...but which people were truly overextended?

INVESTORS, not consumers

Ever hear of the term MARGIN CALL?

yes, and it wasnt just investors
they allowed people to borrow beyond their means to repay
and they didnt have a margin call

 

[DiveCon]

WWII ended it. The mobilizing of US industry and sudden employment of any man between the age of 18-45 was a hit of speed on the economy.

SO...it was ended by government spending

Yes, that was one reason.

in some sense, but add to that the fact that the only production for most of the world was here in the USA for years after the war
thus we had HUGE exports

 

[Yukon]

Adolph Hitler ended the Great Depression by invading Poland in 1939. Of course that Depression lasted much longer in the USA because the USA refused to fight the tyranny of Nazi Germany until she was attacked by Japan. Almost 2 1/2 years lapsed from the end of the Depression in 1939 until America reluctantly entered WWII.

 

[Garinold]

You can look at statistics from the census bureau that show while unemployment steadily declined between 1932 and 1939, there were ups and downs and unemployment never fell below 12% if I'm not mistaken. I also recall unemployment reaching as high as 20% in may of 1939, after 7 years worth of Roosevelt's expansion of Gov't programs, regulations, and taxes.

You can also look at Henry Morgenthau's statements before the House Way's & Means Committee in 1939: "We are spending more money than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get jobs. We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt to boot." which amounts to what I would call "expert witness testimony" if the New Deal were on trial as being either a success or failure. In conclusion I would have to agree with some above posters that it was WW2 that began to bring about the end of the Great Depression and not the New Deal.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You can look at statistics from the census bureau that show while unemployment steadily declined between 1932 and 1939, there were ups and downs and unemployment never fell below 12% if I'm not mistaken. I also recall unemployment reaching as high as 20% in may of 1939, after 7 years worth of Roosevelt's expansion of Gov't programs, regulations, and taxes.

You can also look at Henry Morgenthau's statements before the House Way's & Means Committee in 1939: "We are spending more money than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get jobs. We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt to boot." which amounts to what I would call "expert witness testimony" if the New Deal were on trial as being either a success or failure. In conclusion I would have to agree with some above posters that it was WW2 that began to bring about the end of the Great Depression and not the New Deal.

Well the same principle that applies to the New Deal applies to World War 2. You can't spend your way out of a recession or a depression.

Yes, unemployment fell during WW2, but that's not surprising since so many were conscripted to go die over in Europe. The production of military goods over consumer goods, price controls, and rations are not the features of a booming economy.

The Great Depression didn't end until after WW2.

 

[Garinold]

You can look at statistics from the census bureau that show while unemployment steadily declined between 1932 and 1939, there were ups and downs and unemployment never fell below 12% if I'm not mistaken. I also recall unemployment reaching as high as 20% in may of 1939, after 7 years worth of Roosevelt's expansion of Gov't programs, regulations, and taxes.

You can also look at Henry Morgenthau's statements before the House Way's & Means Committee in 1939: "We are spending more money than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get jobs. We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt to boot." which amounts to what I would call "expert witness testimony" if the New Deal were on trial as being either a success or failure. In conclusion I would have to agree with some above posters that it was WW2 that began to bring about the end of the Great Depression and not the New Deal.

Well the same principle that applies to the New Deal applies to World War 2. You can't spend your way out of a recession or a depression.

Yes, unemployment fell during WW2, but that's not surprising since so many were conscripted to go die over in Europe. The production of military goods over consumer goods, price controls, and rations are not the features of a booming economy.

The Great Depression didn't end until after WW2.

Yes I will agree with that. But you also must remember that during WW2 the Gov't had a much more productive relationship with businesses than in the 1930s, especially compared to the NRA which lead to the destruction of many small businesses. Some of the New Deal provisions and programs were also being dismantled by Robert Taft and his conservative coalition starting during WW2.

 

[Bfgrn]

You can look at statistics from the census bureau that show while unemployment steadily declined between 1932 and 1939, there were ups and downs and unemployment never fell below 12% if I'm not mistaken. I also recall unemployment reaching as high as 20% in may of 1939, after 7 years worth of Roosevelt's expansion of Gov't programs, regulations, and taxes.

You can also look at Henry Morgenthau's statements before the House Way's & Means Committee in 1939: "We are spending more money than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get jobs. We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt to boot." which amounts to what I would call "expert witness testimony" if the New Deal were on trial as being either a success or failure. In conclusion I would have to agree with some above posters that it was WW2 that began to bring about the end of the Great Depression and not the New Deal.

Well the same principle that applies to the New Deal applies to World War 2. You can't spend your way out of a recession or a depression.

Yes, unemployment fell during WW2, but that's not surprising since so many were conscripted to go die over in Europe. The production of military goods over consumer goods, price controls, and rations are not the features of a booming economy.

The Great Depression didn't end until after WW2.

Yes I will agree with that. But you also must remember that during WW2 the Gov't had a much more productive relationship with businesses than in the 1930s, especially compared to the NRA which lead to the destruction of many small businesses. Some of the New Deal provisions and programs were also being dismantled by Robert Taft and his conservative coalition starting during WW2.

This has turned into a pea brain conversation...

First of all, I dispute the premise "You can't spend your way out of a recession or a depression." Someone HAS TO to spend to end a recession. There are 3 sources of spending - business, citizens and government...when the first 2 are flat on their back, it leaves only government to inject capital into the economy.

Second, WWII ended the depression...war IS government spending at at HUGE rate.

Third, WHAT would be the consequences if government did nothing? Total collapse of the economy, mass unemployment, loss of all government services like unemployment, police & fire...

It would be total chaos with millions of desperate, starving citizens with no one to enforce the rule of law...

Right wing solutions are fucking great...if ONLY people would evaporate!

During the depression, Republican ideologues then also believed the economy would right itself in the long run, prompting Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins to respond: “People don’t eat in the long run. They eat every day.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/opinion/12mon4.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

 

[editec]

it was more people over extending their means

but it figures you would be clueless

True...but which people were truly overextended?

INVESTORS, not consumers

Ever hear of the term MARGIN CALL?

yes, and it wasnt just investors
they allowed people to borrow beyond their means to repay
and they didnt have a margin call

Great theory...except its not supported by the facts.

 

[editec]

You can look at statistics from the census bureau that show while unemployment steadily declined between 1932 and 1939, there were ups and downs and unemployment never fell below 12% if I'm not mistaken. I also recall unemployment reaching as high as 20% in may of 1939, after 7 years worth of Roosevelt's expansion of Gov't programs, regulations, and taxes.

You can also look at Henry Morgenthau's statements before the House Way's & Means Committee in 1939: "We are spending more money than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get jobs. We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt to boot." which amounts to what I would call "expert witness testimony" if the New Deal were on trial as being either a success or failure. In conclusion I would have to agree with some above posters that it was WW2 that began to bring about the end of the Great Depression and not the New Deal.

Well the same principle that applies to the New Deal applies to World War 2. You can't spend your way out of a recession or a depression.

Yes, unemployment fell during WW2, but that's not surprising since so many were conscripted to go die over in Europe. The production of military goods over consumer goods, price controls, and rations are not the features of a booming economy.

The Great Depression didn't end until after WW2.

It didn't REALLY end (if you use the stock market as your guide) until 1956!

 

[Iriemon]

I guess technically this is history, but its so relevant to now I thought it best here.


Now that we're already into this recession, there's no point to playing the blame game any more. Especially when there is plenty of blame to be heaped on both sides.

The real question now, is how do we fix it?

Let's look to history.


The Great Depression - for what reasons did it end?

WWII ended it. The mobilizing of US industry and sudden employment of any man between the age of 18-45 was a hit of speed on the economy.

Wasn't the employment of everyone 18-45 caused by a draft which was funded by massive government spending?


What if the government today said, everyone who is between 18 and 45, who doesn't have a job, can come work for the government, and that went on for 4 years? Would that help?

Seems like the New Deal wasn't big enough. They weren't prepared to employ EVERYBODY. WW II did employ all men in those ages - which must have been at least 35% of the workforce. Since unemployment wasn't at 35% this meant immediate full employment for anyone who wanted work, women, older men, and those unfit for military service.

The economy started growing again, and fairly robustly, after FDR was elected and instituted the New Deal.

But it was a very deep hole to climb out of.

 

[DiveCon]

True...but which people were truly overextended?

INVESTORS, not consumers

Ever hear of the term MARGIN CALL?

yes, and it wasnt just investors
they allowed people to borrow beyond their means to repay
and they didnt have a margin call

Great theory...except its not supported by the facts.

actually, it is supported by the facts
you just refuse to admit it because it doesnt fit your political agenda

 

[editec]

yes, and it wasnt just investors
they allowed people to borrow beyond their means to repay
and they didnt have a margin call

Great theory...except its not supported by the facts.

actually, it is supported by the facts
you just refuse to admit it because it doesnt fit your political agenda

Okay, it was your assertion, so it's up to you to prove it.

What was the level of debt racked up by the consuming class in 1929?

What percentage of the GDP could be attributed to consumer debt?

How does that compare to todays debt ratios?

 

[DiveCon]

Great theory...except its not supported by the facts.

actually, it is supported by the facts
you just refuse to admit it because it doesnt fit your political agenda

Okay, it was your assertion, so it's up to you to prove it.

What was the level of debt racked up by the consuming class in 1929?

What percentage of the GDP could be attributed to consumer debt?

How does that compare to todays debt ratios?

back then they could buy stock with only 10% secured funding
the other 90% was borrowed
it wasnt so much the consumer class as the investor class
thats what you either forget or are willfully ignoring


and my post was refering to today, not 1929
but, almost the same thing happened today with people buying beyond their means to repay


but go ahead and completely ignore those facts