The federal reserve is going to pull another ONE TRILLION DOLLARS OUT OF THEIR ASS!

[Mr.Fitnah]

I would agree with you if we weren't already 13 trillion in the hole. That's when inflation becomes a major problem. The debt will eventually catch up to us in the way of higher interest rates and countries then not lending us money.

It becomes easier for us to export if that happens but what do we make in this country?

13 trillion in debt by itself is a meaningless number. The national debt rose to about 90% of GDP in order to allow the government to stimulate the economy out of the great depression. I believe that is about 35% higher than it is now.

In order to create jobs and stimulate the economy the fastest, you increase government spending and cut taxes on consumers.

I thought that was how you drive a car into a ditch .

 

[Spoonman]

I would agree with you if we weren't already 13 trillion in the hole. That's when inflation becomes a major problem. The debt will eventually catch up to us in the way of higher interest rates and countries then not lending us money.

It becomes easier for us to export if that happens but what do we make in this country?

13 trillion in debt by itself is a meaningless number. The national debt rose to about 90% of GDP in order to allow the government to stimulate the economy out of the great depression. I believe that is about 35% higher than it is now.

In order to create jobs and stimulate the economy the fastest, you increase government spending and cut taxes on consumers.

I thought that was how you drive a car into a ditch .

No, You elect a community organizer to the presidency of the United States to do that.

 

[Urkie]

Stands on its own, thanks
You want "equality", but not when it comes to paying taxes .
You want to redistribute wealth? Stop handing it out and have people go earn some .
The Poor in the USA are fat and drive nice cars and buy candy and bluerays .
Cut everybody off and see how the economy grows.

So how is it "equality" if you're handing out bailouts to banks who went under because they got greedy?

If the bailout was directed at the right people (us) then we could have saved the economy faster and it would have actually cost the government a lot less. The other way to do it is obviously to cut taxes but the former is a faster way of doing it. You could even do both if you wanted to.

 

[LiberalNut]

Cut everybody off and see how the economy grows.

Go for it. Make sure nobody in the middle and lower classes can consume. See how many jobs you create that way.

 

[LiberalNut]

I don't see how inflation reduces the debt?

Just look at what happened inthe 70s. The average Joe has a mortgage, at a fixed rate that was about 25% of his income. By the time the 70s were over the payment was the same but it only represented about 5% of Joe's income.

Look if you are in debt $100 at 8% fixed and the currency is devalued in half, in REAL TERMS, your debt has been cut in half.

Inflation is a roundabout way of redistributing wealth. The people who hold the debt at a fixed rate get screwed while the people in debt make out like bandits. In the short run it's painful because prices rise faster than wages but in the end, money is redistributed from lenders to borrowers.

We'd have to pay more to the Chinese for example, to pay off the debt.

NEW debt only. We'd have to offer them higher interest given the devalued dollar. But that doesn't come home to roost till the new debt matures, as much as 30 years in the future. In the short term, all the payments on the existing debt are reduced in real terms.

What happens when China stops lending us money?

The shit hits the fan. Thing is, it hits the fan for them worse than it hits the fan for us. They are absolutely dependent on our market for their exports. If we go belly-up, they go belly-up.

 

[Saikron]

I thought that was how you drive a car into a ditch .

I don't cheerlead for anybody. Obama drank too much of the Republican koolaid on this issue, and I'll keep criticizing any dunce that says the national debt is a priority during an unemployment crisis -- even if it's him. Also, I don't know Obamas argument of how we got in "the ditch", but he should have said it was deregulation of the financial markets. When the housing bubble crashed it turned into a giant shit storm because of DEREGULATED DERIVATIVES traded by the bankers. He also should have mentioned that Bush was piling on the national debt by sending us to Iraq. Stimulating the economy is a much better reason and it doesn't kill people.

Obama didn't give enough money to the actual consumers, and he gave WAAAAY too much money to the bankers and scammers that had been winning for years and still won during the crash and THEN got gravy from Obama.

But, really, you think Republicans were going to do the right thing and give the stimulus (if any) to the right people? Please. When the Dems tried to end tax cuts for corporations shipping jobs over seas Republicans fought it. That was one of their chances right there to prove that they wanted jobs and they understood that they represent millions of people who aren't corporate big wigs and kiss asses and they failed miserably.

 

[Paulie]

Well at least liberalnut had the common decency to wear his retardation on his sleeve with his username.

 

[CaféAuLait]

The federal reserve is going to pull another ONE TRILLION DOLLARS OUT OF THEIR ASS! Have fun with the inflation everyone! =)



I wonder how little your dollars are going to need to be worth before some of you choose to start paying attention to federal monetary policy...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNqxGtzUW4I

I think you mean they are going to pull it out of the tax payers ass as they are bent over...

 

[LiberalNut]

Again with the wingnuts and homoerrotic imagery.

Dr. Freud anyone?

 

[CaféAuLait]

Homoerotic imagery? Where I come from if you pull something out of your ass or are forced to come up with something from your ass you simply do not have it or you’re screwed out of something you do not have. Last thing on my mind was anyone’s sex life—strange you went there.

 

[McDowell's]

It's simply nonsense in this economic environment to be worried about inflation. Such ranting does nothing but show your complete ignorance on how the economy actually works.

But, that said, I don't expect QE2 to work any better than QE1 did. The balance sheets of banks aren't the problem. It's the distribution of wealth that is the core problem and until that is addressed, happy unemployment.

That's funny considering one of the Fed's stated goals in doing the bond buying is to increase the inflation rate towards they're long term target of two percent. The concern is not totally baseless. Or maybe the Fed doesn't know anything about how the economy works, either?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Stands on its own, thanks
You want "equality", but not when it comes to paying taxes .
You want to redistribute wealth? Stop handing it out and have people go earn some .
The Poor in the USA are fat and drive nice cars and buy candy and bluerays .
Cut everybody off and see how the economy grows.

So how is it "equality" if you're handing out bailouts to banks who went under because they got greedy?

If the bailout was directed at the right people (us) then we could have saved the economy faster and it would have actually cost the government a lot less. The other way to do it is obviously to cut taxes but the former is a faster way of doing it. You could even do both if you wanted to.

I was against the bail out and wanted them to go bankrupt and die. Risk and reward .
Thats real world business . the pain comes and goes, trust is established and things grow.
Borrowing money from china rewarding those who agree with your politics and printing money out of thin air is fantasy land economics .
It never ends well. This didnt start yesterday or 50 years ago .
Keynesian bullshit is still bullshit.
Fiat money is bullshit too.

 

[LiberalNut]

one of the Fed's stated goals in doing the bond buying is to increase the inflation rate towards they're long term target of two percent.

And 2% inflation is a problem, why? Y'all were babbling about the 70s and Carter (as if he did that and not OPEC) and whatnot and now you come back with 2%? Jesse. Truth is, it would be a good sign if inflation were to inch up to 2%. It would mean the labor market was growing again.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

What a dollars value now compared to 1970 ?


DollarTimes.com | Inflation Calculator

Thats the fed playing games with your freedom .

 

[Toro]

As an investor, this is great!

As a citizen, I'm appalled. I mean, I would be if I were a citizen.

And because I'm not a citizen, in 10 years, I'll be in the Caymans living tax-free off the dough I made investing against the US dollar!

 

[Urkie]

I was against the bail out and wanted them to go bankrupt and die. Risk and reward .
Thats real world business . the pain comes and goes, trust is established and things grow.
Borrowing money from china rewarding those who agree with your politics and printing money out of thin air is fantasy land economics .
It never ends well. This didnt start yesterday or 50 years ago .
Keynesian bullshit is still bullshit.
Fiat money is bullshit too.

I never said I supported the bailout but if they ever wanted to do a bailout then the solution is not to just give billions of dollars to the banks. That's completely counterproductive but it comes down to politics and both parties are in bed with banks and corporations. You have to keep them happy to get re-elected.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

To get elected you have to crawl in bed with the unions , they are next in line for a trillion dollar bailout .
Its a pay/go system, utterly corrupt .

The rank and file person that pays the bills (Taxes) they are out in the cold and will stay that way.

Nobody gives a shit about that group, hence the tea party.
They aren't looking for a hand out from the government they want a responsible fiscal policy and honorable people representing them.

I sure you agree wit them
' .

 

[Paulie]

one of the Fed's stated goals in doing the bond buying is to increase the inflation rate towards they're long term target of two percent.

And 2% inflation is a problem, why? Y'all were babbling about the 70s and Carter (as if he did that and not OPEC) and whatnot and now you come back with 2%? Jesse. Truth is, it would be a good sign if inflation were to inch up to 2%. It would mean the labor market was growing again.

This is why you're a moron.

The inflation rate in and of itself is not necessarily an indicator of the labor market.

Inflation can rise infinitely while jobs remain stagnant.

Stop involving yourself in a discussion that's above your pay grade, you're making a fool of yourself.

 

[shintao]

I would agree with you if we weren't already 13 trillion in the hole. That's when inflation becomes a major problem.

No dude. The exact opposite is true. If we actually got inflation from this, which we won't, inflation would actually reduce the debt in real terms. Sure, you'd have to offer future debt at a higher rate but in the short term, that doesn't really effect anything.

It becomes easier for us to export if that happens but what do we make in this country?

Don't forget that the flip side is also true. Exports get cheaper and imports get more expensive. We still make things here but one theory would be that by devaluing the dollar, you might spur domestic investment in more productive capacity. I would argue that this isn't the right way to do that but hey, who listens to me anyway?

What the fed is actually trying to do is get banks to lend. But the banks are perfectly willing to lend right now if you have the requisite credit rating. The problem is that the growth of the Bush years was based on debt, not just federal but private. Indeed, private debt absolutely dwarfs public debt. Until the consumer either pays down enough debt to rate having more lent to them, QE2 changes nothing. That's the path to depression BTW.

The answer is not to improve the balance sheet of banks but rather to improve the balance sheets of consumers. the way to do that is to redistribute wealth.

Well, you seem to know what you are talking about, and I will be waiting to see if any con takes you on this subject. I had preached that since last year, that the answer was to take a trillion and pass it out to all Americans so it could be spent locally. To use script money, and set rules for its use, such as can only purchase American made items, only spent within the United States, not to be spent on stocks or put in Banks, and required to spend it by the end of this year. Merchants in turn would turn the script back to the treasury to be exchange for USD + 1% for their trouble.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Where's Jimmeh