the fair tax would get rid of the IRS. the fair tax would boost savings. friends, we need a fair Tax

I disagree
All the prebate does is lower the higher tax rate. It's a feel good add on that does nothing but increase the administrative costs.
If the rate is 10% and the prebate lowers the rate to a net of 7% the people are still paying the regressive 7% sales tax.
So get rid of the rebate and just charge the 7%
The end result is exactly that same without the added administrative costs
Not really, it will be less in the long run, here is what the FairTax group states:

"The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on purchases of new goods and services, excluding necessities due to the prebate. The FairTax rate after necessities is 23% compared to combining the 15% income tax bracket with the 7.65% of employee payroll taxes under the current system -- both of which will be eliminated!

Important to note: the FairTax is the only tax plan currently being proposed that includes the removal of the payroll tax."
If Dems (and GOP for that matter) wanted REAL tax fairness and reform, they would beg Trump
to pass the Fair Tax. Today wouldn't be tax day anymore. Bye-bye to IRS.

Pass the FAIRtax | FAIRtax.org

we need to overhaul and simplify the tax code, my friends!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB118800635034508655

FairTax, Flawed Tax
By Bruce Bartlett (deputy assistant secretary of the Treasury for economic policy from 1988 to 1993.)
Wall Street Journal - 2007

[.....]For those who never heard about it, the FairTax is a national retail sales tax that would replace the entire current federal tax system. It was originally devised by the Church of Scientology in the early 1990s as a way to get rid of the Internal Revenue Service, with which the church was then at war (at the time the IRS refused to recognize it as a legitimate religion)....
[.....]
In reality, the FairTax rate is not 23%. Messrs. Linder and Chambliss get this figure by calculating the tax as if it were already incorporated into the price of goods and services. (This is known as the tax-inclusive rate.) Calculating it the conventional way that every other sales tax is calculated, with the tax on top of the price, yields a rate of 30%. (This is called the tax-exclusive rate.)
The distinction is confusing, but think of it this way. If a product costs $1 at retail, the FairTax adds 30%, for a total of $1.30. Since the 30-cent tax is 23% of $1.30, FairTax supporters say the rate is 23% rather than 30%.

This is only the beginning of the deceptions in the FairTax. Under the Linder-Chambliss bill, the federal government would have to pay taxes to itself on all of its purchases of goods and services. Thus if the Defense Department buys a tank that now costs $1 million, the manufacturer would have to add the FairTax and send it to the Treasury Department. The tank would then cost the federal government $300,000 more than it does today, but its tax collection will also be $300,000 higher.
[.....]
Similarly, state and local governments would have to pay the FairTax on most of their purchases. This means that it is partly financed by higher state and local taxes. It's also worth remembering that state sales taxes now average 6%, which means that the total tax rate will be 36% on retail sales.

State sales taxes have long exempted all but a few services because of the enormous difficulty in taxing intangibles. But the FairTax would apply to 100% of Services, including Medical care, thus increasing their cost by 30%. No state comes close to taxing services so broadly.

Consumers would also find themselves taxed on newly constructed homes. Imagine paying 30% to the federal government on top of the purchase price of your next house.

Since sales taxes are regressive -- taking more in percentage terms from the incomes of the poor and middle class than the rich -- some provision is needed to prevent a vast increase in taxation on the nonwealthy. The FairTax does this by sending monthly checks to every household based on income.

Aside from the incredible complexity and intrusiveness of tracking every American's monthly income -- and creating a de facto national welfare program -- the FairTax does not include the cost of this rebate in the tax rate. As noted earlier, the FairTax is designed only to match current revenues and does not cover any increased spending that it may require. Since the rebate will cost at least $600 billion the first year, either federal discretionary spending would have to be cut by 60% or the rate would have to be five percentage points higher than advertised. ...professional revenue estimators have always concluded that a national retail sales tax would have to be much, much higher than 23%.

A 2000 estimate by Congress's Joint Committee on Taxation found the tax-inclusive rate would have to be 36% and the tax-exclusive rate would be 57%. In 2005, the U.S. Treasury Department calculated that a tax-exclusive rate of 34% would be needed just to replace the income tax, leaving the payroll tax in place.
But if evasion were high then the rate might have to rise to 49%. If the FairTax were only able to cover the limited sales tax base of a typical state, then a rate of 64% would be required (89% with high evasion).

I've emphasized problems with the FairTax rate because public opinion polls have long shown that support for flat-rate tax reforms is extremely sensitive to the proposed rate, with support dropping off sharply at a rate higher than 23%....
[.....]
Perhaps the biggest deception in the FairTax, however, is its promise to relieve individuals from having to file income tax returns, keep extensive financial records and potentially suffer audits. Judging by the emphasis FairTax supporters place on the idea of making April 15 just another day, this seems to be a major selling point for their proposal. Yet all but six states now have state income taxes. So unless one lives in one of those states, this promise is an empty one indeed. In short, the FairTax is too good to be true, and voters should not take seriously any candidate who supports it.""


``
 
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A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.
And I'm all for a flat rate income tax.
That is everyone pays the same percentage on income from any source. However that is unfair to those who pay more because a true flat tax would be one where everyone pays exactly the same amount of tax regardless of amount of income or anything else.
In order to restore fairness for those who pay in more, we should have it where everyone sits down at the end of their tax year and earmark exactly where the tax dollars they paid in are spent.
Of couse this takes the checkbook away from the highly irresponsible congress but that can't be all bad given our current debt. Plus I can't think of a more democratic concept. It would sure put screeching stop to the assholes buying votes for themselves with our own money.
So ie, a Walmarter who makes $25,000 pays 25%, $6250!
NOT.
You can tax CEOs at that rate, but it absolutely destroys the economy and Tens of Millions of people become homeless, car-less, and hungry. They then can't even afford a car to drive to work
Instant depression.
Flat tax is Not possible without at least a 20k (if not 40k) deduction.

`
 
Last edited:
I like the idea of a VAT or "federal sales tax", or "fair tax", but 21% will never happen. The tax collectors will steal the government blind. A 3% or so Federal Sales Tax is barely noticeable, and doesn't change the current economic/financial system much. I'd also eliminate tax loopholes. There are "fixes" for SS & Medicare too. So I think we agree on the big picture, but I oppose turning the current tax system on its head, I prefer a tweak.
There is no "21%", No 23%, not even a 30%.
The actual rate needed is in the mid 50s%, not including avg 6% State sales tax.

See my article at page top.
People just make these BS rates up.
They plug a rate that makes them happy, but it doesn't come close to paying for anything.

`
 
Fair Tax is unappealing to me despite its advantage of privacy protection. I just feel that it penalizes too much those in need such as those with a special need child, those caring for aging parents, victims of tornado, hurricane, flood, crime, fire and accident. Plus implementing it first before repealing the income tax amendment is trusting politicians way beyond the point of being naive.
 
A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.
Nope. A "flat tax" is an income tax.

The Fair Tax is a sales tax. A tax which everyone pays. Drug dealers, hookers, tourists, you, me, your neighbors, everyone.
My only problem with the Fair Tax is the "prebate" where every person on the US gets a check every month to defray the tax costs

Why not eliminate the prebate, save the administration costs and just charge a lower tax rate?
The prebate mitigates the regressive nature of a sales tax.

Let's say you earn a low income. A sales tax on the bare necessities could eat up ten percent of your income.

Whereas for a rich person, a sales tax on the bare necessities eats up less than one percent of their income.

The prebate merely offsets the sales tax on necessities.

And the prebate is the same amount no matter how much you earn.
Just lower the rate and get rid of the prebate

If the prebate brings the tax rate of a poor person down from 10% to 7% then just charge the 7%. Why add a costly layer of bureaucracy?
Without a prebate, a sales tax is regressive, no matter what rate you set it to!
Skip the prebate, just exempt necessities.
 
A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.
And I'm all for a flat rate income tax.
That is everyone pays the same percentage on income from any source. However that is unfair to those who pay more because a true flat tax would be one where everyone pays exactly the same amount of tax regardless of amount of income or anything else.
In order to restore fairness for those who pay in more, we should have it where everyone sits down at the end of their tax year and earmark exactly where the tax dollars they paid in are spent.
Of couse this takes the checkbook away from the highly irresponsible congress but that can't be all bad given our current debt. Plus I can't think of a more democratic concept. It would sure put screeching stop to the assholes buying votes for themselves with our own money.
So ie, a Walmarter who makes $25,000 pays 25%, $6250!
NOT.
You can tax CEOs at that rate, but it absolutely destroys the economy and Tens of Millions of people become homeless, car-less, and hungry. They then can't even afford a car to drive to work
Instant depression.
Flat tax is Not possible without at least a 20k (if not 40k) deduction.

`


So does that Walmart worker have 6 grand to pay for his Obamacare deductible every year you fucking sock?


.
 
So does that Walmart worker have 6 grand to pay for his Obamacare deductible every year you fucking sock?

.
One would only use Obamacare IF it was the cheapest or best value.
That's why it's still popular despite being cut by Trumpov.
Otherwise:

Health Plans

As to the bulk of my 3 posts, you have no reply
I have Twice your IQ and 100x more knowledge.
Bye twat.


`
 
A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.
And I'm all for a flat rate income tax.
That is everyone pays the same percentage on income from any source. However that is unfair to those who pay more because a true flat tax would be one where everyone pays exactly the same amount of tax regardless of amount of income or anything else.
In order to restore fairness for those who pay in more, we should have it where everyone sits down at the end of their tax year and earmark exactly where the tax dollars they paid in are spent.
Of couse this takes the checkbook away from the highly irresponsible congress but that can't be all bad given our current debt. Plus I can't think of a more democratic concept. It would sure put screeching stop to the assholes buying votes for themselves with our own money.
So ie, a Walmarter who makes $25,000 pays 25%, $6250!
NOT.
You can tax CEOs at that rate, but it absolutely destroys the economy and Tens of Millions of people become homeless, car-less, and hungry. They then can't even afford a car to drive to work
Instant depression.
Flat tax is Not possible without at least a 20k (if not 40k) deduction.

`

So you just pulled 25% out of your ass?

When you get rid of exemptions, special interest tax breaks and reduce the bureaucracy involved you can charge a lower tax rate.

And FYI a 401 does not get a tax deduction it is merely a deferment of the income tax to a later date in fact the way the 401 is taxed makes it one of the worst tax treatments on on investment s you can find because both the contributions and all the gains are taxed at regular income tax rates not the more favorable capital gains rates and the fact that people are forced to take a required minimum distribution makes sure the government squeezes every tax dollar possible out of retirees and leaves them as little as possible to to bequeath toi their heirs upon their deaths
 
Nope. A "flat tax" is an income tax.

The Fair Tax is a sales tax. A tax which everyone pays. Drug dealers, hookers, tourists, you, me, your neighbors, everyone.
My only problem with the Fair Tax is the "prebate" where every person on the US gets a check every month to defray the tax costs

Why not eliminate the prebate, save the administration costs and just charge a lower tax rate?
The prebate mitigates the regressive nature of a sales tax.

Let's say you earn a low income. A sales tax on the bare necessities could eat up ten percent of your income.

Whereas for a rich person, a sales tax on the bare necessities eats up less than one percent of their income.

The prebate merely offsets the sales tax on necessities.

And the prebate is the same amount no matter how much you earn.
Just lower the rate and get rid of the prebate

If the prebate brings the tax rate of a poor person down from 10% to 7% then just charge the 7%. Why add a costly layer of bureaucracy?
Without a prebate, a sales tax is regressive, no matter what rate you set it to!
Skip the prebate, just exempt necessities.
Things like prescription drugs,food and clothing up to a certain dollar amount should not be taxed
 
I like the idea of a VAT or "federal sales tax", or "fair tax", but 21% will never happen. The tax collectors will steal the government blind. A 3% or so Federal Sales Tax is barely noticeable, and doesn't change the current economic/financial system much. I'd also eliminate tax loopholes. There are "fixes" for SS & Medicare too. So I think we agree on the big picture, but I oppose turning the current tax system on its head, I prefer a tweak.
There is no "21%", No 23%, not even a 30%.
The actual rate needed is in the mid 50s%, not including avg 6% State sales tax.

See my article at page top.
People just make these BS rates up.
They plug a rate that makes them happy, but it doesn't come close to paying for anything.

`
That's not my quote
 
I like the idea of a VAT or "federal sales tax", or "fair tax", but 21% will never happen. The tax collectors will steal the government blind. A 3% or so Federal Sales Tax is barely noticeable, and doesn't change the current economic/financial system much. I'd also eliminate tax loopholes. There are "fixes" for SS & Medicare too. So I think we agree on the big picture, but I oppose turning the current tax system on its head, I prefer a tweak.
There is no "21%", No 23%, not even a 30%.
The actual rate needed is in the mid 50s%, not including avg 6% State sales tax.

See my article at page top.
People just make these BS rates up.
They plug a rate that makes them happy, but it doesn't come close to paying for anything.
So you believe 60%-70% - including state and local sales taxes - is the wave of the future? Simplified (flat) tax systems - which range from 12%-30% - have proven to jumpstart economic growth by removing most of the inefficiencies (and corruption) that tax compliance impose. Consider just the time and capital spent on tax attorneys & accountants and the time our gov't spends plotting and planning exciting new ways to tax us.

No Comrade Abu, the gov't may not tax us into the abyss.

 
Last edited:
So does that Walmart worker have 6 grand to pay for his Obamacare deductible every year you fucking sock?

.
One would only use Obamacare IF it was the cheapest or best value.
That's why it's still popular despite being cut by Trumpov.
Otherwise:

Health Plans

As to the bulk of my 3 posts, you have no reply
I have Twice your IQ and 100x more knowledge.
Bye twat.
If you were half as smart as Bear you would know that the poster who proudly announces to this laughing audience that he has "twice your IQ and 100x more knowledge" and then stalks off in a "bye twat" huff is widely recognized as a village idiot and more than likely gay.
 
Someone needs to define the "fair tax" better. Its always been described as a "flat tax, the same tax rate for all". I'm in favor of a "3% Federal Sales Tax", call it a "fair tax", a VAT (value added tax), or something else.
Again, a flat tax is an income tax. The Fair Tax is a sales tax.

No one has ever called a state sales tax a "flat tax". And neither should the Fair Tax be called a flat tax. You are mistaken.

The Fair Tax would be nowhere near 3 percent. It would be closer to 21 percent.

With a prebate. And no federal income tax.

Do not think of that 21% figure itself used in the Fair Tax in like terms as a local or state sales tax. It has been a number of years but the last Fair Tax legislation I saw introduced in Congress that was rate was up to 23%. Which doesn't mean the sales tax on $100 is $23, but rather $30. $30/$130 = 23%

Fair Tax backers equate it to the existing income tax system in which we pay taxes on the gross income and not just on the after-tax net amount.
 
We've had more than 12 of these Bills; none pass because they're ridiculous handouts to people who don't need tax cuts and raise taxes on people who shouldn't be paying any in the first place.
 
A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.

False!

Flat Tax--- A "flat tax" is an income tax system in which everyone pays the same tax rate regardless of how much income they have.

Fair Tax-- The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on purchases of new goods and services, excluding necessities due to the prebate.

=================================

Fair Tax makes it impossible to cheat on taxes, and no IRS needed as it is immediately applied on every purchase. Save a lot of money and headache in the process.

Fair Tax is way better than Flat Tax, since there are no need to keep track of anything as it is applied every time you buy something. No more tax filings, No more paperwork, no more having to pay more or get a refund on last years taxes, since all that is eliminated by Fair Tax.

The rest you say is old worn out baloney.
I would be all for it if everything was taxed, like stocks and bonds. Why should the upper end of the income bracket get off scott free?
 
A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.

False!

Flat Tax--- A "flat tax" is an income tax system in which everyone pays the same tax rate regardless of how much income they have.

Fair Tax-- The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on purchases of new goods and services, excluding necessities due to the prebate.

=================================

Fair Tax makes it impossible to cheat on taxes, and no IRS needed as it is immediately applied on every purchase. Save a lot of money and headache in the process.

Fair Tax is way better than Flat Tax, since there are no need to keep track of anything as it is applied every time you buy something. No more tax filings, No more paperwork, no more having to pay more or get a refund on last years taxes, since all that is eliminated by Fair Tax.

The rest you say is old worn out baloney.


Every mis-labeled 'Fair Tax' Bill I've ever read was baloney, especially the parts where corporations pay no taxes on anything they buy, and nobody pays sales taxes on buying stocks and bonds. No matter how you lie around it, a 15% flat tax on people who have to spend most of their income every month to survive is far higher tax rate on low incomes than a 15% flat sales tax on some trust fund punk who only has to spend less than 1% of their income just for basic necessities.
 
Nobody has proposed a fair tax where the poor and working class do not end up paying more and the rich do not pay less
 
A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.
Nope. A "flat tax" is an income tax.

The Fair Tax is a sales tax. A tax which everyone pays. Drug dealers, hookers, tourists, you, me, your neighbors, everyone.

Rubbish. Not single 'Fair Tax' bill has ever been proposed that fits that fantasy.
 

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