The Constitutional Myths of the right

Discussion in 'US Constitution' started by IM2, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. Porter Rockwell
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    Porter Rockwell VIP Member

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    Save your name calling. You're getting you ass whipped and all you can do is call me names? Fuck you.

    Try telling the people who were manufacturing bump stocks legally about ex post facto laws. Did the government exclude those made before the Executive Order? No. So, it appears YOU would be the moron. The government disrespects the Constitution at every level. I've worked on cases that went to the United States Supreme Court. Have you?

    Since the science has evolved, we can better understand what a life consists of. Yes, it was a shit decision, but I used it as an example, not as an opportunity for your arrogant ass to start a pissing contest over. So stick it. Stupid slut.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  2. Cecilie1200
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    Cecilie1200 Diamond Member

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    Save your "You called me names, you're a meanie!". You just got your ass shredded, and all you can do is focus on one phrase, ignore the rest of the post, and hope to deflect the discussion.

    I don't have to tell the people who manufactured bump stocks legally about ex post facto laws, but I do apparently have to explain them to you. The concept of laws not being retroactive has nothing to do with the items manufactured, dimwit; it has to do with whether or not the PEOPLE doing the manufacturing can be punished by law for actions which were legal when they did them. Are there any bump stock manufacturers being prosecuted for illegally manufacturing bump stocks during the time before they were banned? No? Then your argument is invalid, and YOU continue to be the moron.

    . . . And with your "Aha! I have claimed unverifiable personal experience on the Internet, so I WINNNN!!!" you have surrendered the debate and disqualified yourself as a serious poster.

    You are dismissed, and I will now be talking to adults who can win their debates on the merits. Have a nice day on the bench, Junior.
     
  3. Porter Rockwell
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    Porter Rockwell VIP Member

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    The purchasers who owned a legally manufactured product are criminals today if they still own it and the Constitution requires the government to give just compensation to the bump stock corporations.

    You can keep calling me names; it just shows what a low class, filthy, lying, uneducated stupid bitch you really are. Makes you wonder if your mother had any children that lived... if so, your existence may make a good court-room argument for abortion.
     
  4. Hiryuu
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    Hiryuu Gold Member

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    Or attempts to manipulate it in order to violate it.
    For instance, the old argument about the "defense of the Free State", "regulated militia" and "right of the People to bear arms shall not be infringed" provisions in the Second Amendment.

    A State could pass a law that requires all citizens above the age of 18 to own an AR-15, ammunition, and be prepared to answer the call in defense of the Free State in order to regulate a militia. None of that would violate any provision of the Constitution, and it would satisfy all the provisions.

    It's only when you attempt to manipulate one provision, in order to violate another, that a problem arises.
     
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  5. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Dear IM2
    And EVEN in the process of "altering or abolishing" this still follows
    the natural laws of democratic due process based on CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED.

    One group cannot declare or ordain that things must be changed THEIR WAY
    at the expense of how the other half of the nation believes in reforming and correcting problems of govt!

    This is the fallacy and failure of liberals who believe THEY represent the "will of the people."
    What about people who believe in reforming govt by FOLLOWING the process built in
    to PROTECT the representation of the very people affected by changing govt?

    When you change a contract, doesn't it make sense that the PARTIES to the contract
    should AGREE what to amend and the process and terms for changing it?

    This is where I do not understand why it never occurs to both sides of conflicts
    that the CONSENT of the other side is necessary for laws and reforms to reflect
    and represent the FULL public interest. How can you even think to represent
    the public by leaving out and overruling the beliefs or objections of other citizens?
     
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  6. IM2
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    IM2 Platinum Member

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    Liberals don't believe anything you have said. And it would serve you best to take a real, hard long look at how this nation has operated and what specific group has changed and altered law to benefit their group at everyone elses expense. It is that group who today whines that junk you just posted in their attempt to gaslight people into allowing them to continue to change and alter law to their benefit.
     
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  7. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Dear IM2
    Liberals who don't believe or understand how the democratic process works
    are still governed by natural laws that all people respond to because it's universal.

    As many Christians have abused Christian church laws and authority,
    as corporate interests have abused corporate loopholes in the laws and legal system,
    as Party members have abused the Party system to impose policies without
    the consent of others by bullying by exclusion or coercion.

    I think by the time you track all the abuses, every system out there has been abused.
    You could blame any number of groups under any number of "labels" who have
    abused institutions to oppress individuals without the same collective influence and access to resources.

    Overall I would say it is a "class war" - where people WITH knowledge of the laws
    and access to resources exert advantages over people with less, and this DISPARITY has been exploited.

    Not sure if you can blame more liberals than conservatives,
    or more leftwing than rightwing.

    All I can say from experience is
    * Christians respond to rebukes and corrections best from fellow Christians using Christian laws
    * Constitutionalists respond to rebukes and corrections best from fellow Constitutionalists using Constitutional laws
    * Buddhists respond likewise to fellow Buddhists using Buddhist laws they both respect and agree to follow
    etc.

    So whichever person or group you see fit to blame for certain injustice or oppression, IM2
    I support you in addressing that particular audience by invoking the very laws
    they profess to follow by forming alliances of peers with that group
    so it's neighbor helping neighbor to correct a problem.

    if it's done in an "adversarial" way to project blame and reject or change the other person/group
    that tends to get rejected and fail.

    If correction is sought by ALLIES on the same team,
    that tends to be more effective in compelling corrections and positive outcome.

    I'm happy to help find and form teams of allies in such a process
    of reform and corrections to end oppression and abuse.

    The Center for the Healing of Racism is organizing a conference this
    fall to address ending institutionalized racism, discrimination and oppression.
    If you would like to be part of this outreach, I am happy to introduce you
    to other educators and advocates working on solutions that empower people
    just like you and me to change the system around us instead of
    being caught in perpetual victimhood. As much as problems are blamed
    on liberals on the far left or the opposite extremes on the far right,
    I find this adversarial system of partisan competition of the
    "party of the poor blaming the rich" vs. the
    "party of the rich blaming the poor" merely continues the "class war" going on
    instead of investing our resources and focus on equalizing knowledge
    and access to laws and training people in self-government and equal ownership.
     
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  8. IM2
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    IM2 Platinum Member

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    Your problem is that conservatives are the ones who don't understand the process and you are seeing how much they don't every day. Emily there has been one group who made the laws in this nation and used those laws to abuse others. In fact they still do. Until that group in total accepts their responsibility to do what is right, then you're just running in quicksand. The first thing YOU can do to heal is stop using terms created by racists to belittle people actually trying to heal this nation of racism. There is no such thing as perpetual victimhood. Not in the manner you and other conservatives use the word.

    Conservatism is based on a false premise Emily. And Kings unfinished dream was for economic equality. That's what I am about. There can and will be no healing when those who are descendants of thieves refuse to return what they have stolen. There are laws greater than mans law. And the lords government supersedes any talk of self government. Spiritual laws have been broken here Emily. I don't think you understand the severity if this because all you are doing is repeating the attitude that broke the laws when you start talking that blame stuff.

    When one group is abusing another it is not "blame" when the abusers are held accountable.
     
  9. miketx
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    miketx Diamond Member

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    Poor butt hurt boy.
     
  10. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    ???

    No IM2 it's not just one group.
    It's anyone who has been abusing power and that's a LOT of different groups!

    Religious groups from the Jehovah's Witnesses, LDS, and Catholics
    have abused their religious organizations and "house rules" to cover up abuses
    including child abuse and sex abuse that are criminal violations outside church policy.

    Corporations have abused personhood and legal resources
    to seize and destroy national landmarks at taxpayers' expense,
    without any check by laws or courts they bought out with their collective influence
    that exceeds and oppresses the equal rights of individuals affected by such misconduct.

    IM2 if YOU are even EXCUSING such abuses as "not illegal" or
    "not constitutional" THEN YOU ARE PART OF THIS SAME ENABLING.

    Since I am a taxpayer and my taxes paid into the resources
    these corporate interests used to DESTROY national historic landmarks
    (such as in Freedmen's Town) and environmental landmarks
    (such as Headwaters Forest in California costing taxpayers over 1.6 billion),
    then you can say that I am part of this "problem of abuses by collective entities"

    The problem is the ABUSE and the INABILITY of
    citizens like you and me to address, prevent it, or correct it before it gets worse.

    Why are you insisting it's only one group?

    Name ALL the instances of oppression and abuse in the
    entire history of the US and how you can possibly blame
    it on ONE DEMOGRAPHIC group.

    The reason I blame Democratic Party members and leaders
    is they are NOT teaching empowerment by Constitutional laws
    and authority that would CORRECT and PREVENT these abuses.

    I also have been confronting both Republicans, Libertarians and
    even CONSTITUTION PARTY members and leaders why
    THEY haven't stood up to enforce the Constitution in order
    to teach DEMOCRATS to do that by example.

    I get MORE response and support from Conservatives
    who BELIEVE in enforcing Constitutional standards and principles
    than I do from Democrats and Liberals who don't believe in those,
    as you said.

    If you want to make this point that it is "only one group"
    IM2 can you list how all the oppression and abuse
    is tied to this one group.

    I'm saying that the UNIVERSAL LAWS the Constitution is based on
    applies to ALL people and equally includes NATIVE AMERICAN
    culture and practices in that system because it's based on NATURAL LAWS.

    So that's not just about WHITE people.

    My friend Lenwood who got the campus plans legislated through HUD reforms
    invoked and used EQUAL CONSTITUTIONAL rights and freedoms to teach others
    to defend their rights. And this is coming from a low income predominantly BLACK community.

    IM2 if you don't recognize that equal power comes from invoking these laws
    directly, as Lenwood used and other leaders, THAT'S where the problem is coming from.

    Just blaming WHITE people isn't empowering people to invoke laws directly
    and exercise equal authority as anyone else.

    Gladys House has been working by this authority on her own while "men" like you bitch whine and moan saying it's "white man's fault" or whatever
    AS AN EXCUSE NOT TO GET OUT AND BUILD PROGRAMS YOURSELF
    AS LENWOOD DID AND LED OTHERS TO DO.

    That victim-blame mentality doesn't solve the problems: rich blaming poor
    and poor blaming rich, black and white blaming each other for
    destroying themselves or others, just goes in circles.

    Even when I blame the disparity on the lack of equal education,
    experience and knowledge of the LAWS, I include ALL people
    in the solution of building campus programs to TEACH
    and TRAIN people to govern themselves by the LAWS.
    NOT by blaming one group or another.

    in EACH CASE IM2, let's hold the specific WRONGDOERS
    responsible for correcting each and every VIOLATION instead of
    trying to blame a whole group. That's not solving the problem,

    But tracking EACH INSTANCE and CORRECTING each one,
    is going to solve the problems REGARDLESS who gets blamed.

    Let's track each problem and fix it instead of arguing.

    Let the credit go to the people who SOLVE the problems
    so THEY own the programs and property it takes to back that solution.

    Then it's clear which people to focus on, instead of arguing over the problems
    that are from all over the place!
     
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