CDZ The College Bubble Bust, How Bad is it?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by william the wie, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. Fishlore
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    Fishlore Silver Member

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    Having a liberal arts degree is not a disaster compared to not having a college degree. In terms of current employment and lifetime earning, a BA degree is valuable indeed.

    Liberal arts colleges are not going to close. We are going to dramatically expand the percent of the next generation that goes to college by lifting the affordability barrier. The good of America demands it. The alternative is to grow the bitter and disaffected Trump fans who never went to college and never learned much in high school either.
     
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  2. MarathonMike
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    MarathonMike Platinum Member

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    I agree that Liberal Arts colleges will not close, but I do believe they will be forced to adapt in the next few years. That might be either significantly reducing the cost of Arts degrees and/or augmenting the choices with more technology oriented degrees. That wouldn't have to be straight up engineering, math or physics but traditional degrees with an emphasis on data analysis and/or computer skills. For instance Political Science but with a statistical emphasis (think Karl Rove and his white board).
     
  3. william the wie
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    william the wie Gold Member

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    Sounds good but the students in liberal arts school either can't pass those courses or don't need them to run their family's trading at freeports to avoid taxation.
     
  4. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    I've seen first hand the ridiculous requirements many businesses make up for positions in the tech fields, and universities as well; they will require a 4 year degree for jobs like receptionists, which is ridiculous. In the tech fields you get the same sort of nonsense. I was asked to hire another employee for a laser project, we needed a tech according to them, as they claimed they 'couldn't find anybody qualified', which I thought was odd, so I went to the HR dept. and started going through apps and resumes, which is an enlightening experience in itself, but in any case I found a guy in the 'Do Not Hire' stack who had the best qualifications: He had a business repairing lawn mower and small businesses, and other experience using hand tools. High school education was it. He picked up laser alignments and tunings in less than a week. They were demanding degrees, bizarre levels of experience, etc., for what was basically just an assembly position. this guy knew less than nothing about lasers and electro-optics, and did just fine. This sort of ridiculous certification mania stupidity is rife throughout Silly Con Valley and the corporate bureaucracies of today.
     
  5. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    Yes, you're going to run ever bigger construction budgets and jam even more seat warmers in, and dumb down the system even more than it already is in order to keep filling those seats, and give yourselves ever bigger salaries and bennies from milking the system, same as you've been for the last 50 years.
     
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  6. Rambunctious
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    Rambunctious Gold Member

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    You can not teach a person well if you are trying to brainwash them at the same time.
     
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  7. cnelsen
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    cnelsen BANNED

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    This is your first mistake--lumping training and education into the same basket. The purpose of an education is to teach humans to think. It is not to make their bank accounts bigger. Getting a law degree does not make you "educated". It only trains you to be a lawyer. Back when only a small percentage of the population got a college degree, it was generally the very motivated, very energetic, very smart kids went off to some institution somewhere to become "educated". These kids, unsurprisingly, tended also to do well over the course of their lives. Someone noticed that people who were successful also tended to have gone to college and came to the conclusion the college causes success. Most people can recognize the logical fallacy of that. However, it is accepted today as a given that, to succeed, you need to go to college. It's even on the Dept of Ed's website, as if college is a kind of magical place somewhere where you can go sit in these magical rooms for four years and when you return, people will automatically pay you more for your time. Now we have this as a friend sent me this morning from a class he "teaches"

    [​IMG]

    In truth, this "student" is little more than a social security number serving to funnel taxpayer money to guys like this:

    [​IMG]

    http://craignelsen.com/library/strayer.html

    No, the "good" of America does not demand it. But then, you probably know that.
     
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  8. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    What? There is no such thing as a generic degree. No college or university offers a four year B.S. or B.A. in "general studies." One takes either of those degrees in specific field.

    Has it occurred to you that liberal arts colleges offer among the most in-demand degrees one can obtain?
    What liberal arts colleges don't offer are undergraduate professional degrees, examples of which at the undergraduate level include business and engineering. What's the difference? There is considerably less theory and vastly more practice associated with a professional degree as compared with a non-professional degree. Broadly speaking, how does that "play out" pedagogically and scholastically? Students that are taught theory are required to think for themselves about how to apply their discipline's theory to solve practical problems. Professional degrees, on the other hand, a little bit about an assortment of theories from multiple disciplines, and teach students a variety of ways to apply them.

    Is one methodology better than the other? In general, no. For any given individual, however, one approach to learning how to think may be more effective for them than the other. I took an economics degree and later got an MBA with a "self employment" concentration. A colleague of mine took an accounting degree with a history minor and also got an MBA with a operations management concentration. Other colleagues have humanities, engineering, computer science, etc. undergrad degrees with a variety of graduate degrees though the MBA is the most common, followed by math, tax masters, computer science, Ed doctorates, and MPAs. We are all equally adept at doing our jobs and we're all well compensated.

    For very few careers does one's actual degree(s) matter. Why? Because above a certain level, one spends most of one's time generating ideas, managing people and managing processes, not performing tasks that require the skills associated a single specific field of study. It's the work one does in the early stages of a career that require those very specific skills.

    P.S./Edit:
    The most important skill of all -- critical thinking -- is honed as one pursues any degree, thought the foundations of that skill are taught in high school.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017

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