The Civil Rights' Double-Edged Sword: Time To Silence The Rogue Judge In Oregon Instead.

[Silhouette]

The law doesn't say 'all business's except ones owned by Christians'.

So when Christians are taking gays to court for their refusing to print the mandate in Jude 1 for a billboard ad, etc., you'll be right there defending the Christians, yes?

And on the topic of civil rights, do you understand that the 1st Amendment grants the civil right of exercise of one's faith? To stand out of participation is not a hostile act. It is a passive refusal, not an attack. The 9th Amendment says that no one provision or right can extinguish or hamper the right of another. I'm sure if gay graphic artist businesspeople were refusing to print the mandate of Jude 1 on principle, this conversation coming from you would be a hella lot different, wouldn't it?

I mean, you realize what this does to your legal stance? And the stance of the judge? This judge could be disbarred for refusing to abide by Oregon's statute that civil rights must not be violated. Again, the judge doesn't have the liberty to extinguish the 1st Amendment, fine people for exercising it and then gag them so they won't run and tell the world what this judge just did to them....

 

[amrchaos]

QU

 

[Syriusly]

The law doesn't say 'all business's except ones owned by Christians'.

So when Christians are taking gays to court for their refusing to print the mandate in Jude 1 for a billboard .

If a business refuses to serve Christians- it doesn't matter whether the owner of the business is gay or not- the business is breaking the law.

The law doesn't say 'all business's except ones owned by gays'- any more than it says 'all business's except ones owned by Christians.

Follow the law, change the law or get out of the business if you cannot follow it.

 

[Silhouette]

If a business refuses to serve Christians- it doesn't matter whether the owner of the business is gay or not- the business is breaking the law.

The law doesn't say 'all business's except ones owned by gays'- any more than it says 'all business's except ones owned by Christians.

Follow the law, change the law or get out of the business if you cannot follow it.

No, the business has no problem with any other biblical verse, just the one that says that enabling the spread of homosexuality is forbidden. Just that one. The gay graphic artists refuse to print it on principle. You're going to be there in that lawsuit defending the Christians forcing the gay graphic artists to write that passage? Yes or no?

 

[amrchaos]

The law doesn't say 'all business's except ones owned by Christians'.

So when Christians are taking gays to court for their refusing to print the mandate in Jude 1 for a billboard ad, etc., you'll be right there defending the Christians, yes?

And on the topic of civil rights, do you understand that the 1st Amendment grants the civil right of exercise of one's faith? To stand out of participation is not a hostile act. It is a passive refusal, not an attack. The 9th Amendment says that no one provision or right can extinguish or hamper the right of another. I'm sure if gay graphic artist businesspeople were refusing to print the mandate of Jude 1 on principle, this conversation coming from you would be a hella lot different, wouldn't it?

I mean, you realize what this does to your legal stance? And the stance of the judge? This judge could be disbarred for refusing to abide by Oregon's statute that civil rights must not be violated. Again, the judge doesn't have the liberty to extinguish the 1st Amendment, fine people for exercising it and then gag them so they won't run and tell the world what this judge just did to them....

Wait, I thought this was about christians to do work for homosexuals.

When did it become homosexuals refusing to do work for Christians? I've never heard of that case. When did this happen? Homosexuals work for Christians all the time, so it would seem strange that one would refuse work just because the client is Christian?

Do you understand what has just been implied?

 

[Syriusly]

If a business refuses to serve Christians- it doesn't matter whether the owner of the business is gay or not- the business is breaking the law.

The law doesn't say 'all business's except ones owned by gays'- any more than it says 'all business's except ones owned by Christians.

Follow the law, change the law or get out of the business if you cannot follow it.

No, the business has no problem with any other biblical verse, just the one that says that enabling the spread of homosexuality is forbidden. Just that one. The gay graphic artists refuse to print it on principle. You're going to be there in that lawsuit defending the Christians forcing the gay graphic artists to write that passage? Yes or no?

If a business refuses to serve Christians- it doesn't matter whether the owner of the business is gay or not- the business is breaking the law.

The law doesn't say 'all business's except ones owned by gays'- any more than it says 'all business's except ones owned by Christians.

Follow the law, change the law or get out of the business if you cannot follow it.

Really not that hard to comprehend.

 

[Silhouette]

Wait, I thought this was about christians to do work for homosexuals.

When did it become homosexuals refusing to do work for Christians? I've never heard of that case. When did this happen? Homosexuals work for Christians all the time, so it would seem strange that one would refuse work just because the client is Christian?

Do you understand what has just been implied?

Well as soon as next week we could have Christian couple marching into a gay graphic artist's studio and demanding s/he print Jude 1 for a highway billboard near a major interstate. When, and not if, the gay person refuses on principle, the Christians can probably have that lawsuit drawn up and filed by *checks calendar*...say the week of the 20th? Would that work for you?

I mean, that's how it's done, right? The Christians could just as easily have gone to a Christian graphic artist; but no..no no no...that won't do! They have to FORCE their 1st Amendment rights onto those unwilling persons OR ELSE! Get ready. It's coming..

This is what happens when cults face off with religion. Christianity has been around for a couple thousand years. I doubt it's going to go belly up and piss on itself to a bunch of Johnny-come-lately butt demons parading around in clown outfits down main street.

 

[Syriusly]

Wait, I thought this was about christians to do work for homosexuals.

When did it become homosexuals refusing to do work for Christians? I've never heard of that case. When did this happen? Homosexuals work for Christians all the time, so it would seem strange that one would refuse work just because the client is Christian?

Do you understand what has just been implied?

Well as soon as next week we could have Christian couple marching into a gay graphic artist's studio and demanding s/he print Jude 1 for a highway billboard near a major interstate..

Yes.

It could happen next week.

And the business could not deny that business based upon the Christian content.

Let me be more explicit

If the Christian couple went in and asked that the business print up what some Christians wave signs saying "Fags should all Die"- then the business could turn them down- because of the content.

But if the Christians went in and asked them to print the content of Jude or any other Bible verses- and were turned down- then they were turning it down because the customers were Christians and that would be a violation of the law - everywhere.

 

[Silhouette]

But if the Christians went in and asked them to print the content of Jude or any other Bible verses- and were turned down- then they were turning it down because the customers were Christians and that would be a violation of the law - everywhere.

That's not how most gays I have seen battling on the internet would view it. But you're entitled to your oddball view. If you think a gay person is going to print up a billboard destined to sit by the side of a busy highway that says the words of Jude 1, which are words that implore any decent person to resist the spread of homosexual culture throughout society...I got news for you...there's going to be a gay graphic artist or 1,000 that will not go along with that and will refuse on the spot on "principle".

 

[Derideo_Te]

But if the Christians went in and asked them to print the content of Jude or any other Bible verses- and were turned down- then they were turning it down because the customers were Christians and that would be a violation of the law - everywhere.

That's not how most gays I have seen battling on the internet would view it. But you're entitled to your oddball view. If you think a gay person is going to print up a billboard destined to sit by the side of a busy highway that says the words of Jude 1, which are words that implore any decent person to resist the spread of homosexual culture throughout society...I got news for you...there's going to be a gay graphic artist or 1,000 that will not go along with that and will refuse on the spot on "principle".

Most of the gays I know would get a good laugh out of being paid to do a graphic of that nature. Knowing them they would find a way to make a joke out of it that people like you wouldn't get. But everyone else would find amusing.

You are entitled to your beliefs and your bigotry but you cannot use it to deny others their civil rights.

 

[Syriusly]

But if the Christians went in and asked them to print the content of Jude or any other Bible verses- and were turned down- then they were turning it down because the customers were Christians and that would be a violation of the law - everywhere.

That's not how most gays I have seen battling on the internet would view it. But you're entitled to your oddball view. If you think a gay person is going to print up a billboard destined to sit by the side of a busy highway that says the words of Jude 1, which are words that implore any decent person to resist the spread of homosexual culture throughout society...I got news for you...there's going to be a gay graphic artist or 1,000 that will not go along with that and will refuse on the spot on "principle".

Then that 'gay person' would be breaking the law.

This is what you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about- there are no special 'Christian' or 'Gay' exemptions from the law.

Not that any Gay person would object to the words of Jude 1- since Jude 1 doesn't mention homosexuals or condemn them at all

Greeting to the Called
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,

To those who are called, sanctifieda]">[a] by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

Contend for the Faith
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord Godb]">[b] and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Old and New Apostates
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

Apostates Depraved and Doomed
12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried aboutc]">[c] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Apostates Predicted
16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

Maintain Your Life with God
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;d]">[d] 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,e]">[e] hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Has the equal access law in Oregon been ruled as unconstitutional?The judge is merely following state law...

State law say no civil right may be violated. You don't get to pick favorites and neither does the judge..

It also says that you can't deny access to public and private enterprises based on sexual orientation...

Well the 9th Amendment is going to make this a real sticky wicket then isn't it?

It's time for Melissa and hubby to obey the laws of this country.

I agree.

1. They should abide by the 1st Amendment.

2. They should abide by the 9th Amendment

3. They should abide by their state's code of judicial peformance (see the links in the OP).

The 9th amendment protects gays from discrimination.

 

[daws101]

The best resultion for silly wet's problem is to be run down by a bus load of geratric Lesbians.

 

[Silhouette]

This is what you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about- there are no special 'Christian' or 'Gay' exemptions from the law.

Not that any Gay person would object to the words of Jude 1- since Jude 1 doesn't mention homosexuals or condemn them at all..

(Romans leaves no doubt what "strange flesh" is in the Jude 1 passage. Not that there is any doubt.)

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

**********
Romans 1: 19-32 is about how men and women know what the natural sexual use of men and women are, thanks to the "unseen" plan of God. And those that fall from that and become homosexuals and those that enable them (1:32 "not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them") are worthy of death.

In Jude 1 it describes eternal peril of the soul instead of "death"...but you get the idea. These are just two versions of the same Command and abstract core: "If you enable homosexuals to think what they do is normal and of God's plan, your soul is doomed".

Pretty clear and straightforward there Syriusly.

 

[Syriusly]

This is what you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about- there are no special 'Christian' or 'Gay' exemptions from the law.

Not that any Gay person would object to the words of Jude 1- since Jude 1 doesn't mention homosexuals or condemn them at all..

(Romans leaves no doubt what "strange flesh" is in the Jude 1 passage. Not that there is any doubt.)
\.

Like I said- not that any Gay person would object to the words of Jude 1- since Jude 1 doens't mention homosexuals or condemn them at all.

 

[daws101]

This is what you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about- there are no special 'Christian' or 'Gay' exemptions from the law.

Not that any Gay person would object to the words of Jude 1- since Jude 1 doesn't mention homosexuals or condemn them at all..

(Romans leaves no doubt what "strange flesh" is in the Jude 1 passage. Not that there is any doubt.)

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

**********
Romans 1: 19-32 is about how men and women know what the natural sexual use of men and women are, thanks to the "unseen" plan of God. And those that fall from that and become homosexuals and those that enable them (1:32 "not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them") are worthy of death.

In Jude 1 it describes eternal peril of the soul instead of "death"...but you get the idea. These are just two versions of the same Command and abstract core: "If you enable homosexuals to think what they do is normal and of God's plan, your soul is doomed".

Pretty clear and straightforward there Syriusly.

When getting your ass handed to you QUOTE the bible.
give it up.

 

[NYcarbineer]

But if the Christians went in and asked them to print the content of Jude or any other Bible verses- and were turned down- then they were turning it down because the customers were Christians and that would be a violation of the law - everywhere.

That's not how most gays I have seen battling on the internet would view it. But you're entitled to your oddball view. If you think a gay person is going to print up a billboard destined to sit by the side of a busy highway that says the words of Jude 1, which are words that implore any decent person to resist the spread of homosexual culture throughout society...I got news for you...there's going to be a gay graphic artist or 1,000 that will not go along with that and will refuse on the spot on "principle".

Then that 'gay person' would be breaking the law.

This is what you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about- there are no special 'Christian' or 'Gay' exemptions from the law.

Not that any Gay person would object to the words of Jude 1- since Jude 1 doesn't mention homosexuals or condemn them at all

Greeting to the Called
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,

To those who are called, sanctifieda]">[a] by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

Contend for the Faith
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord Godb]">[b] and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Old and New Apostates
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

Apostates Depraved and Doomed
12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried aboutc]">[c] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Apostates Predicted
16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

Maintain Your Life with God
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;d]">[d] 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,e]">[e] hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

Why don't we check with Justice Scalia for an opinion? (from Emplyment Division v Smith)

Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority, observed that the Court has never held that an individual's religious beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that government is free to regulate.

Allowing exceptions to every state law or regulation affecting religion "would open the prospect of constitutionally required exemptions from civic obligations of almost every conceivable kind."

Scalia cited as examples compulsory military service, payment of taxes, vaccination requirements, and child-neglect laws.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

SILHOUETTE SAID:

“That's not how most gays I have seen battling on the internet would view it.”

That's because you're ignorant as to what constitutes a hasty generalization fallacy.

 

[Silhouette]

Then I guess we'll all just see how it turns out when this Oregon judge gets reviewed for their suppression of the 1st Amendment civil rights of this Christian baker couple.

 

[Silhouette]

Like I said- not that any Gay person would object to the words of Jude 1- since Jude 1 doens't mention homosexuals or condemn them at all.

OK, Romans 1 then. And aren't people's 1st Amendment rights a civil right?

This judge screwed up and needs to be reprimanded.