The Birth of Religion

[Wiseacre]

In the June 2011 edition of National Geographic, there is a piece about a place called Gobekli Tepe, the site of an archeological dig that is uncovering what may be the world's first temple. Built around 9600 BC, with huge stones weighing up to 16 tons, it would have required 100s of workers to create cuz it is thought humans had not domesticated animals by then.

What's interesting in the story is how the discovery may change the concept that religion followed the rise of civilization rather than predating it. Hunter gatherers did have a form of religion, but it was thought to be more individualized even though the groups may have had shamans that acted as intermediaries between humans and gods. But anybody could commune with the gods using various methods. It was thought that organized religion where priests were the only conduit sprang up after people began to live in communities and organized religion was needed to bind them together.

But Gobekli Tepe predates that, and it is now postulated that religion was a driving force that may have caused people to form communities, rather than the other way around. The site is being excavated very slowly, so it may be decades before it is entirely uncovered and who knows what will be found. Interesting stuff.

 

[uscitizen]

9600 BC? Wow that is before God created the earth.

 

[Ravi]

Everyone knows that the earth is only 6,000 years old.

 

[uscitizen]

God must be just mking it appear that the temple is that old to test our faith?

 

[Care4all]

God never said he created humans 6000 years ago.....humans did....and humans were wrong.

and i have been following this find....it is absolutely amazing and mind boggling! As humans, we really have been ''wrong'' on so many things once thought about us....

 

[xsited1]

In the June 2011 edition of National Geographic, there is a piece about a place called Gobekli Tepe, the site of an archeological dig that is uncovering what may be the world's first temple. Built around 9600 BC, with huge stones weighing up to 16 tons, it would have required 100s of workers to create cuz it is thought humans had not domesticated animals by then.

What's interesting in the story is how the discovery may change the concept that religion followed the rise of civilization rather than predating it. Hunter gatherers did have a form of religion, but it was thought to be more individualized even though the groups may have had shamans that acted as intermediaries between humans and gods. But anybody could commune with the gods using various methods. It was thought that organized religion where priests were the only conduit sprang up after people began to live in communities and organized religion was needed to bind them together.

But Gobekli Tepe predates that, and it is now postulated that religion was a driving force that may have caused people to form communities, rather than the other way around. The site is being excavated very slowly, so it may be decades before it is entirely uncovered and who knows what will be found. Interesting stuff.

So God and Religion brought people together allowing the human race to progress to where we are today. Interesting.

 

[Wiseacre]

There is a school of thought that warfare and violence was commonplace both before andf after the dawm of civilization. Many anthropologists think that the strength of a group's religion was a major factor in whether or not they survived as a group. You didn't make it on your own, you had to be a member of a group and if that group was defeated then the chances were that you and your potential or real offspring probably didn't add to the gene pool.

A place like Gobekli Tepe provides strong evidence that at that time religion was a strong motivator in some people's lives, for good or ill. It took a hell of a lot of hard work to build a place like that, coordination and organization had to be in play.

Would we be any different today if religion had not taken root? Who knows, but I suspect sooner or later religion as an institution would have evolved somewhere.

 

[Ravi]

There is a school of thought that warfare and violence was commonplace both before andf after the dawm of civilization. Many anthropologists think that the strength of a group's religion was a major factor in whether or not they survived as a group. You didn't make it on your own, you had to be a member of a group and if that group was defeated then the chances were that you and your potential or real offspring probably didn't add to the gene pool.

A place like Gobekli Tepe provides strong evidence that at that time religion was a strong motivator in some people's lives, for good or ill. It took a hell of a lot of hard work to build a place like that, coordination and organization had to be in play.

Would we be any different today if religion had not taken root? Who knows, but I suspect sooner or later religion as an institution would have evolved somewhere.

Religion is a tool of survival. I'm not sure why that surprises anyone.

I often wonder what future generations would make a preserved hockey arena.

 

[uscitizen]

Or an auto museum?

 

[JBeukema]

There is a school of thought that warfare and violence was commonplace both before andf after the dawm of civilization. Many anthropologists think that the strength of a group's religion was a major factor in whether or not they survived as a group. You didn't make it on your own, you had to be a member of a group and if that group was defeated then the chances were that you and your potential or real offspring probably didn't add to the gene pool.

A place like Gobekli Tepe provides strong evidence that at that time religion was a strong motivator in some people's lives, for good or ill. It took a hell of a lot of hard work to build a place like that, coordination and organization had to be in play.

Would we be any different today if religion had not taken root? Who knows, but I suspect sooner or later religion as an institution would have evolved somewhere.

So basically you're arguing collectivism and groupthink are better than individuality and freedom?

 

[Skull Pilot]

There is a school of thought that warfare and violence was commonplace both before andf after the dawm of civilization. Many anthropologists think that the strength of a group's religion was a major factor in whether or not they survived as a group. You didn't make it on your own, you had to be a member of a group and if that group was defeated then the chances were that you and your potential or real offspring probably didn't add to the gene pool.

A place like Gobekli Tepe provides strong evidence that at that time religion was a strong motivator in some people's lives, for good or ill. It took a hell of a lot of hard work to build a place like that, coordination and organization had to be in play.

Would we be any different today if religion had not taken root? Who knows, but I suspect sooner or later religion as an institution would have evolved somewhere.

So basically you're arguing collectivism and groupthink are better than individuality and freedom?

The luxuries of individuality and freedom as we know them are only possible because we learned to prosper as a collective in our early history.

Concepts of being human evolved just as we did.

 

[Wiseacre]

There is a school of thought that warfare and violence was commonplace both before andf after the dawm of civilization. Many anthropologists think that the strength of a group's religion was a major factor in whether or not they survived as a group. You didn't make it on your own, you had to be a member of a group and if that group was defeated then the chances were that you and your potential or real offspring probably didn't add to the gene pool.

A place like Gobekli Tepe provides strong evidence that at that time religion was a strong motivator in some people's lives, for good or ill. It took a hell of a lot of hard work to build a place like that, coordination and organization had to be in play.

Would we be any different today if religion had not taken root? Who knows, but I suspect sooner or later religion as an institution would have evolved somewhere.

So basically you're arguing collectivism and groupthink are better than individuality and freedom?

Back then a little too much individuality could get you eaten. To get ahead or even stay alive you had to get along. I suspect that then as now, people had their say and if you didt't agree then you better not make too much of a fuss about it.

 

[JBeukema]

Back then a little too much individuality could get you eaten.

That hasn't changed. Especially in Republican districts.

 

[whitehall]

I've seen pop-science stuff like nat-geo and the history channel make assumptions before. Here's how they do it. First they make a guess and then they expound on that theory as if it was proven.

 

[Wiseacre]

Back then a little too much individuality could get you eaten.

That hasn't changed. Especially in Republican districts.

LOL, that was cold JB.

 

[Wiseacre]

I've seen pop-science stuff like nat-geo and the history channel make assumptions before. Here's how they do it. First they make a guess and then they expound on that theory as if it was proven.

I don't think anybody is saying this is fact, just putting it out there for discussion. There's not likely to ever be any proof.

 

[midcan5]

The problem with assigning one religion the oldest label is which one do you select? I would think religion started when people could ask questions of life and especially death. All remote primitives have some form of religion or creation myth, it would seem civilization, no matter its form and religion came together at the very start of language.

Answers.com - What is the oldest known religion in the world

"A claim that evidence was found for Middle Paleolithic animal worship c 70,000 BC originates from the Tsodilo Hills in the African Kalahari desert has been denied by the original investigators of the site." Prehistoric religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peter Watson's 'Ideas...' is an excellent read.

 

[Wiseacre]

The problem with assigning one religion the oldest label is which one do you select? I would think religion started when people could ask questions of life and especially death. All remote primitives have some form of religion or creation myth, it would seem civilization, no matter its form and religion came together at the very start of language.

Answers.com - What is the oldest known religion in the world

"A claim that evidence was found for Middle Paleolithic animal worship c 70,000 BC originates from the Tsodilo Hills in the African Kalahari desert has been denied by the original investigators of the site." Prehistoric religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peter Watson's 'Ideas...' is an excellent read.

Eventually I'll get to Peter Watson's book, thanks.

Wasn't really going for which religion was the oldest, that was not discussed inthe referenced NatGeo article. And yes, no doubt primitive man was probably practicing some form of religion long before the dawn of civilization and this Gobekli Tepe temple was built. After all, we have cave paintings that are as old as 32,000 years so far, which could be viewed as animalism.

What is of interest to me is that hunter gatherer groups had to work together for quite some time to build such structures, which were quite likely to be religious in nature. And this is before civilization began. Considering the violence of the times, the pull of religion must have been quite strong to influence this many people to make that kind of extended effort. We are moving away from religion in general, one wonders if this is really a positive thing. Even if one does not accept the premises of the 3 major Abrahamic religions, a little reverence for life and existence couldn't hurt, along with some adherence to some of the more positive human feelings such as love, mercy, tolerance, and forgiveness. Don't have to beleive in God to believe in a certain way of living.

 

[surada]

In the June 2011 edition of National Geographic, there is a piece about a place called Gobekli Tepe, the site of an archeological dig that is uncovering what may be the world's first temple. Built around 9600 BC, with huge stones weighing up to 16 tons, it would have required 100s of workers to create cuz it is thought humans had not domesticated animals by then.

What's interesting in the story is how the discovery may change the concept that religion followed the rise of civilization rather than predating it. Hunter gatherers did have a form of religion, but it was thought to be more individualized even though the groups may have had shamans that acted as intermediaries between humans and gods. But anybody could commune with the gods using various methods. It was thought that organized religion where priests were the only conduit sprang up after people began to live in communities and organized religion was needed to bind them together.

But Gobekli Tepe predates that, and it is now postulated that religion was a driving force that may have caused people to form communities, rather than the other way around. The site is being excavated very slowly, so it may be decades before it is entirely uncovered and who knows what will be found. Interesting stuff.

Amazing, isn't it. Have you seen pictures?

 

[rupol2000]

The first religion is shamanism. From there came also the Celtic Saman, from which there are traces in Halloween. Shamanism covered Asia and America, this speaks of the Asian origin of Americans. Shamanism is almost not studied - it is politics. Shamanism was the basis of the Aryan Vedic religion.

The other, European side in those days was chthonism, the worship of snakes and mothers.