The batttle for Chosin

[rightwinger]

None of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

I'll have to get in touch with my high school history teacher. He told me that the Chinese fought us to a stalemate. Even though he was in that war, I guess that he did not realize that we had won.

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

 

[9thIDdoc]

None of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

I'll have to get in touch with my high school history teacher. He told me that the Chinese fought us to a stalemate. Even though he was in that war, I guess that he did not realize that we had won.

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

 

[rightwinger]

None of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

I'll have to get in touch with my high school history teacher. He told me that the Chinese fought us to a stalemate. Even though he was in that war, I guess that he did not realize that we had won.

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

Seems like playground retaliation....no need to burn down the whole school

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman. This country needs to honor our soldiers. That honor is not national cemeteries and parades once a year
That honor is respecting the comittment they have made to this country and not putting them in harms way just because of some civil war half a world away

 

[Vandalshandle]

None of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

I'll have to get in touch with my high school history teacher. He told me that the Chinese fought us to a stalemate. Even though he was in that war, I guess that he did not realize that we had won.

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

OMG! The domino theory! If we don't kill the commies in Vietnam, we will have to kill them in California some day!

 

[9thIDdoc]

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

I'll have to get in touch with my high school history teacher. He told me that the Chinese fought us to a stalemate. Even though he was in that war, I guess that he did not realize that we had won.

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

Seems like playground retaliation....no need to burn down the whole school

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman. This country needs to honor our soldiers. That honor is not national cemeteries and parades once a year
That honor is respecting the comittment they have made to this country and not putting them in harms way just because of some civil war half a world away

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman.

In Korea we were attacked first by NK then by China. Often you don't choose to go to war; you are attacked which leaves you no other options. In Vietnam we had committed ourselves to help S.Vietnam defend itself and it was attacked by N. Vietnam which had the committed backing China and the Soviet Union. It was not a civil war. There is nothing honorable about throwing an ally to the wolves or sending troops to far away lands and not giving them the support they need to defend themselves and our allies.
We are not the world's policemen but we do in fact have interests and commitments worldwide as well military bases and embassies that must be protected. Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were reminders that sometimes if you don't police the world the world will police you.

 

[rightwinger]

I'll have to get in touch with my high school history teacher. He told me that the Chinese fought us to a stalemate. Even though he was in that war, I guess that he did not realize that we had won.

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

Seems like playground retaliation....no need to burn down the whole school

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman. This country needs to honor our soldiers. That honor is not national cemeteries and parades once a year
That honor is respecting the comittment they have made to this country and not putting them in harms way just because of some civil war half a world away

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman.

In Korea we were attacked first by NK then by China. Often you don't choose to go to war; you are attacked which leaves you no other options. In Vietnam we had committed ourselves to help S.Vietnam defend itself and it was attacked by N. Vietnam which had the committed backing China and the Soviet Union. It was not a civil war. There is nothing honorable about throwing an ally to the wolves or sending troops to far away lands and not giving them the support they need to defend themselves and our allies.
We are not the world's policemen but we do in fact have interests and commitments worldwide as well military bases and embassies that must be protected. Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were reminders that sometimes if you don't police the world the world will police you.

Bullshit

These were both Cold War, my dick is bigger than your dick conflicts

Cost us 100,000 deaths for no purpose

 

[9thIDdoc]

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

I'll have to get in touch with my high school history teacher. He told me that the Chinese fought us to a stalemate. Even though he was in that war, I guess that he did not realize that we had won.

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

OMG! The domino theory! If we don't kill the commies in Vietnam, we will have to kill them in California some day!

The domino theory was perfectly valid as long as Communists intended to rule the world.

 

[rightwinger]

I'll have to get in touch with my high school history teacher. He told me that the Chinese fought us to a stalemate. Even though he was in that war, I guess that he did not realize that we had won.

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

OMG! The domino theory! If we don't kill the commies in Vietnam, we will have to kill them in California some day!

The domino theory was perfectly valid as long as Communists intended to rule the world.

Never happened

We lost 100,000 fighting a domino theory

 

[Vandalshandle]

I'll have to get in touch with my high school history teacher. He told me that the Chinese fought us to a stalemate. Even though he was in that war, I guess that he did not realize that we had won.

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

OMG! The domino theory! If we don't kill the commies in Vietnam, we will have to kill them in California some day!

The domino theory was perfectly valid as long as Communists intended to rule the world.

Unlike us, of course. We would never attempt to manipulate other nations political structure...well, not more than 400-500 times :

Timeline of United States military operations - Wikipedia

 

[Vandalshandle]

I'll have to get in touch with my high school history teacher. He told me that the Chinese fought us to a stalemate. Even though he was in that war, I guess that he did not realize that we had won.

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

Seems like playground retaliation....no need to burn down the whole school

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman. This country needs to honor our soldiers. That honor is not national cemeteries and parades once a year
That honor is respecting the comittment they have made to this country and not putting them in harms way just because of some civil war half a world away

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman.

In Korea we were attacked first by NK then by China. Often you don't choose to go to war; you are attacked which leaves you no other options. In Vietnam we had committed ourselves to help S.Vietnam defend itself and it was attacked by N. Vietnam which had the committed backing China and the Soviet Union. It was not a civil war. There is nothing honorable about throwing an ally to the wolves or sending troops to far away lands and not giving them the support they need to defend themselves and our allies.
We are not the world's policemen but we do in fact have interests and commitments worldwide as well military bases and embassies that must be protected. Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were reminders that sometimes if you don't police the world the world will police you.

BTW, the Chinese had every good reason to believe that MacArthur was not going to stop at the Yalu River, but would invade China on the pretense of seeking to destroy the N. Korean army retreating into China, just like we did in the Mexican War. "General Brasshat" (as Truman called MacArthur) had all but said that is what we should do. Also, Vietnam WAS a civil war. We had agreed to free elections in the South, but reneged, because we would have lost the election to the communists. Also, China and Vietnam have been traditional enemies for hundreds of years. The North got all of their help from the Soviet Union.

I will give the Pentagon credit for one thing, though. During the entire Vietnam era, not one single N. Vietnamese successfully invaded or bombed America, by boat, airplane, canoe, raft, or swimming with water wings.

 

[harmonica]

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote

Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.

A prime example of why MacArthur got fired

He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed

We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance

Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?

you must not have understood my previous post
here:
we lost to the communist:
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Cuba
and---guess what?? the US is ok!
we didn't need to be there..it was a waste
we get involved in too much crap

Bay of Pigs--$$$$ lost
Nicaragua ???!!!

...first we are friends with and helping the Taliban/Afghanis --then we are at war over there
...first we are friends with Iran--then enemies with Iran and friends with Iraq helping Iraq fight Iran
then we go to war with Iraq !!!!!!!????!! WTF?

we need to stay out of a lot of these insignificant conflicts

Bullshit. We did not lose in any of those places. And you might bother to notice that we won the Cold War.

..we fought in/gave mucho $$$$/etc Nam, Laos, Cambodia--all lost to communism
we tried to stop communism--but did not
..we developed the Bay of Pigs--big stupid loss that not only wasted $$$$, but also embarrassed/etc the US
...remember 1975?

 

[harmonica]

A prime example of why MacArthur got fired

He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed

We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance

Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?

you must not have understood my previous post
here:
we lost to the communist:
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Cuba
and---guess what?? the US is ok!
we didn't need to be there..it was a waste
we get involved in too much crap

Bay of Pigs--$$$$ lost
Nicaragua ???!!!

...first we are friends with and helping the Taliban/Afghanis --then we are at war over there
...first we are friends with Iran--then enemies with Iran and friends with Iraq helping Iraq fight Iran
then we go to war with Iraq !!!!!!!????!! WTF?

we need to stay out of a lot of these insignificant conflicts

Isolationism is the most dangerous of all possible foreign policies. A brief history of American isolationism

You gotta pick your fights

The gung-ho gotta kill the commie wars were not worth it

Our intelligence has failed us many times....we need better intelligence agencies for sure. Communism during the fifties and sixties was an aggressive ideology that had to be dealt with....accepting a stalemate in Korea was the mistake not fighting the war. Limited war is a mistake.....as General MacArthur said....there is no substitute for victory. Likewise in Vietnam....though MacArthur advised LBJ not to get involved ...he did anyhow. Another case of attempting to fight a limited war....if we are not willing to go all out for victory then I agree we should stay out.

rightwinger is correct--most wars do not end in total victory
you would've wanted total war with China???!!! ???!
did you not read my previous post!!!!??
we lost Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia to communism---what was the big loss to the US??
no--we did not need to fight communism
Cuba became ''an communist enemy''
why did we need to fight communism?? so 50,000 could die for nothing?
wasted BILLIONS$$$ in Nam, Laos, Cambodia

 

[9thIDdoc]

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

OMG! The domino theory! If we don't kill the commies in Vietnam, we will have to kill them in California some day!

The domino theory was perfectly valid as long as Communists intended to rule the world.

Unlike us, of course. We would never attempt to manipulate other nations political structure...well, not more than 400-500 times :

Timeline of United States military operations - Wikipedia

Good morning Sunshine! All nations do whatever they can to protect themselves and their interests. Always have; always will. Why in the world would anyone think otherwise?

 

[9thIDdoc]

Read. I didn't say we won the the Korean War (although there has never been an official end to that war, just a cease fire) I said we defeated the Chinese forces badly and that is true. They attacked our troops and gained not a damn thing except hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese.

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

Seems like playground retaliation....no need to burn down the whole school

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman. This country needs to honor our soldiers. That honor is not national cemeteries and parades once a year
That honor is respecting the comittment they have made to this country and not putting them in harms way just because of some civil war half a world away

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman.

In Korea we were attacked first by NK then by China. Often you don't choose to go to war; you are attacked which leaves you no other options. In Vietnam we had committed ourselves to help S.Vietnam defend itself and it was attacked by N. Vietnam which had the committed backing China and the Soviet Union. It was not a civil war. There is nothing honorable about throwing an ally to the wolves or sending troops to far away lands and not giving them the support they need to defend themselves and our allies.
We are not the world's policemen but we do in fact have interests and commitments worldwide as well military bases and embassies that must be protected. Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were reminders that sometimes if you don't police the world the world will police you.

BTW, the Chinese had every good reason to believe that MacArthur was not going to stop at the Yalu River, but would invade China on the pretense of seeking to destroy the N. Korean army retreating into China, just like we did in the Mexican War. "General Brasshat" (as Truman called MacArthur) had all but said that is what we should do. Also, Vietnam WAS a civil war. We had agreed to free elections in the South, but reneged, because we would have lost the election to the communists. Also, China and Vietnam have been traditional enemies for hundreds of years. The North got all of their help from the Soviet Union.

I will give the Pentagon credit for one thing, though. During the entire Vietnam era, not one single N. Vietnamese successfully invaded or bombed America, by boat, airplane, canoe, raft, or swimming with water wings.

So China attacked us in self defense when we had given them no cause to do so? Bullshit. After they had staged an unprovoked assault against our troops we were in a de facto war with China and had a valid reason to consider that an option if we so chose. Why give us the excuse if they were worried about it happening?
Free elections did not happen because they could not be held when a multitude of VC/NVA units were in place to assure the results of any such election. Voting with a gun to your head is really not all that "free" is it?
The majority of supplies coming into RSVN came from China. A lesser amount from the USSR. Both had troops-especially pilots- fighting with the NVA.
No, N. Vietnam did not attack the USA although they certainly did attack and occupy parts of Cambodia Laos and Thailand and attack American facilities including an embassy and American troops and civilians. What's your point?

 

[9thIDdoc]

Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote

Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.

A prime example of why MacArthur got fired

He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed

We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance

Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?

you must not have understood my previous post
here:
we lost to the communist:
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Cuba
and---guess what?? the US is ok!
we didn't need to be there..it was a waste
we get involved in too much crap

Bay of Pigs--$$$$ lost
Nicaragua ???!!!

...first we are friends with and helping the Taliban/Afghanis --then we are at war over there
...first we are friends with Iran--then enemies with Iran and friends with Iraq helping Iraq fight Iran
then we go to war with Iraq !!!!!!!????!! WTF?

we need to stay out of a lot of these insignificant conflicts

Bullshit. We did not lose in any of those places. And you might bother to notice that we won the Cold War.

..
..we fought in/gave mucho $$$$/etc Nam, Laos, Cambodia--all lost to communism
we tried to stop communism--but did not
..we developed the Bay of Pigs--big stupid loss that not only wasted $$$$, but also embarrassed/etc the US
...remember 1975?

View attachment 193114

..we fought in/gave mucho $$$$/etc Nam, Laos, Cambodia--all lost to communism
we tried to stop communism--but did not

We fought Communism until the American people-through their pet politicians- decided to stop. We didn't lose anything.

 

[Vandalshandle]

50,000 Americans died

What did we gain?

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

Seems like playground retaliation....no need to burn down the whole school

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman. This country needs to honor our soldiers. That honor is not national cemeteries and parades once a year
That honor is respecting the comittment they have made to this country and not putting them in harms way just because of some civil war half a world away

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman.

In Korea we were attacked first by NK then by China. Often you don't choose to go to war; you are attacked which leaves you no other options. In Vietnam we had committed ourselves to help S.Vietnam defend itself and it was attacked by N. Vietnam which had the committed backing China and the Soviet Union. It was not a civil war. There is nothing honorable about throwing an ally to the wolves or sending troops to far away lands and not giving them the support they need to defend themselves and our allies.
We are not the world's policemen but we do in fact have interests and commitments worldwide as well military bases and embassies that must be protected. Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were reminders that sometimes if you don't police the world the world will police you.

BTW, the Chinese had every good reason to believe that MacArthur was not going to stop at the Yalu River, but would invade China on the pretense of seeking to destroy the N. Korean army retreating into China, just like we did in the Mexican War. "General Brasshat" (as Truman called MacArthur) had all but said that is what we should do. Also, Vietnam WAS a civil war. We had agreed to free elections in the South, but reneged, because we would have lost the election to the communists. Also, China and Vietnam have been traditional enemies for hundreds of years. The North got all of their help from the Soviet Union.

I will give the Pentagon credit for one thing, though. During the entire Vietnam era, not one single N. Vietnamese successfully invaded or bombed America, by boat, airplane, canoe, raft, or swimming with water wings.

So China attacked us in self defense when we had given them no cause to do so? Bullshit. After they had staged an unprovoked assault against our troops we were in a de facto war with China and had a valid reason to consider that an option if we so chose. Why give us the excuse if they were worried about it happening?
Free elections did not happen because they could not be held when a multitude of VC/NVA units were in place to assure the results of any such election. Voting with a gun to your head is really not all that "free" is it?
The majority of supplies coming into RSVN came from China. A lesser amount from the USSR. Both had troops-especially pilots- fighting with the NVA.
No, N. Vietnam did not attack the USA although they certainly did attack and occupy parts of Cambodia Laos and Thailand and attack American facilities including an embassy and American troops and civilians. What's your point?

My point is that I am very proud that LBJ and Nixon protected my country from hoards of evil commies, thus preventing them from dropping napalm on my house and children from bombers launched from Cuba, or wherever. Not only that, they did not allow half a million commie solders to invade America and kill 2 or 3 million people. And to top it all off, the USA has now designated Vietnam as a "preferred nation", trading status, which means that I can buy a shirt made in Vietnam for only $25 at Walmart! I won't even go in to the fact that Vietnam is now a very affordable tourist destination for Americans! And, to achieve all this, they only sacrificed the lives of 58,000 American boys! Maybe this is the period that Trump considers as "Great" to which he wants to MAGA.

 

[harmonica]

A prime example of why MacArthur got fired

He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed

We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance

Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?

you must not have understood my previous post
here:
we lost to the communist:
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Cuba
and---guess what?? the US is ok!
we didn't need to be there..it was a waste
we get involved in too much crap

Bay of Pigs--$$$$ lost
Nicaragua ???!!!

...first we are friends with and helping the Taliban/Afghanis --then we are at war over there
...first we are friends with Iran--then enemies with Iran and friends with Iraq helping Iraq fight Iran
then we go to war with Iraq !!!!!!!????!! WTF?

we need to stay out of a lot of these insignificant conflicts

Bullshit. We did not lose in any of those places. And you might bother to notice that we won the Cold War.

..
..we fought in/gave mucho $$$$/etc Nam, Laos, Cambodia--all lost to communism
we tried to stop communism--but did not
..we developed the Bay of Pigs--big stupid loss that not only wasted $$$$, but also embarrassed/etc the US
...remember 1975?

View attachment 193114

..we fought in/gave mucho $$$$/etc Nam, Laos, Cambodia--all lost to communism
we tried to stop communism--but did not

We fought Communism until the American people-through their pet politicians- decided to stop. We didn't lose anything.

...Korea was a win for the US in that the commies did not take over SK--but if you know any history, SK's government was much more stable than South Vietnam....in less than 2 years, SV had 3 changes in the head of state--and many more coups /attempted coups before and after--
one of the coups involved MURDER !!
...the US could not stay in SV forever....and if they invaded NV, they could not stay there forever [ but that wasn't going to happen ]..etc
...do you see what all this means?? Vietnam was unwinnable --totally ..there is no way they could've won in Nam

here's a comparison-contrast
tiny Israel:
very narrow battle front
surrounded by the Arabs--had to fight on more than one front!!
no retrograde movement because of the Med Sea
OUTNUMBERED immensely in all categories [troops/tanks/population/etc ]
the US sends NO troops/aircraft/naval/etc
yet Israel decisively defeated the Arabs
surrounded:

South Vietnam:
longer front and maneuver room
not massively outnumbered
the US sends 500,000 troops/etc
has naval and air superiority !!!
sends mucho $$$$/equipment/etc
for over TEN years the US tries to help SV--but there is no win/etc
NOT surrounded:

don't try to say the military had their hands tied--we bombed NV with more bombs than were used in WW2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we had air and naval superiority

do you see the difference?

...and, as stated before---the US is not going to win against China

 

[rightwinger]

What did we gain?

Honor credibility and retribution against enemies' sneak attacks against our troops. American blood was shed; you think we could retain any credibility by playing the sniveling coward and forswearing our commitment to an ally and running crying to our mommies? We stopped the spread of Communism as we were committed to do.

Seems like playground retaliation....no need to burn down the whole school

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman. This country needs to honor our soldiers. That honor is not national cemeteries and parades once a year
That honor is respecting the comittment they have made to this country and not putting them in harms way just because of some civil war half a world away

We need to choose our battles more carefully. We are NOT the worlds policeman.

In Korea we were attacked first by NK then by China. Often you don't choose to go to war; you are attacked which leaves you no other options. In Vietnam we had committed ourselves to help S.Vietnam defend itself and it was attacked by N. Vietnam which had the committed backing China and the Soviet Union. It was not a civil war. There is nothing honorable about throwing an ally to the wolves or sending troops to far away lands and not giving them the support they need to defend themselves and our allies.
We are not the world's policemen but we do in fact have interests and commitments worldwide as well military bases and embassies that must be protected. Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were reminders that sometimes if you don't police the world the world will police you.

BTW, the Chinese had every good reason to believe that MacArthur was not going to stop at the Yalu River, but would invade China on the pretense of seeking to destroy the N. Korean army retreating into China, just like we did in the Mexican War. "General Brasshat" (as Truman called MacArthur) had all but said that is what we should do. Also, Vietnam WAS a civil war. We had agreed to free elections in the South, but reneged, because we would have lost the election to the communists. Also, China and Vietnam have been traditional enemies for hundreds of years. The North got all of their help from the Soviet Union.

I will give the Pentagon credit for one thing, though. During the entire Vietnam era, not one single N. Vietnamese successfully invaded or bombed America, by boat, airplane, canoe, raft, or swimming with water wings.

So China attacked us in self defense when we had given them no cause to do so? Bullshit. After they had staged an unprovoked assault against our troops we were in a de facto war with China and had a valid reason to consider that an option if we so chose. Why give us the excuse if they were worried about it happening?
Free elections did not happen because they could not be held when a multitude of VC/NVA units were in place to assure the results of any such election. Voting with a gun to your head is really not all that "free" is it?
The majority of supplies coming into RSVN came from China. A lesser amount from the USSR. Both had troops-especially pilots- fighting with the NVA.
No, N. Vietnam did not attack the USA although they certainly did attack and occupy parts of Cambodia Laos and Thailand and attack American facilities including an embassy and American troops and civilians. What's your point?

My point is that I am very proud that LBJ and Nixon protected my country from hoards of evil commies, thus preventing them from dropping napalm on my house and children from bombers launched from Cuba, or wherever. Not only that, they did not allow half a million commie solders to invade America and kill 2 or 3 million people. And to top it all off, the USA has now designated Vietnam as a "preferred nation", trading status, which means that I can buy a shirt made in Vietnam for only $25 at Walmart! I won't even go in to the fact that Vietnam is now a very affordable tourist destination for Americans! And, to achieve all this, they only sacrificed the lives of 58,000 American boys! Maybe this is the period that Trump considers as "Great" to which he wants to MAGA.

I remember the Vietnam era vividly

We had commies lurking on every corner, stealing our women and drinking our beer. They were in our schools, in our places of work and in the local 7-11s

We needed to invade Vietnam to fight the red menace

 

[whitehall]

U.S./ U.N forces were in pretty sad shape after the N.K. surprise attack on the South (apparently the CIA was clueless) and U.S. Troops were pushed to the bottom of the peninsula until General MacArthur developed the risky Inchon Landing strategy that cut the N.K. supply lines and isolated N.K. troops. U.S. forces retook the S.K. capital and went on to take the N.K. capital of Pongyang. The conflict was over in less than a year and N.K. ceased to be a threat, but wait. Something happened in the Truman administration and in the mind of the Old Soldier. Red China said that they would enter the conflict if U.S. Troops approached the Yalu River border between Korea and China but why would that happen. MacArthur never spent a single night in Korea, preferring to rely on faulty intelligence supplied by sycophant general Ned Almond and Truman apparently didn't have sense enough or the political courage to tell the old WW1 general to stop. The perfect storm of a winter campaign in a country known for the harshest winters in the world by ill equipped and exhausted U.S. Troops was developing so that MacArthur could fulfill his vow to "piss in the Yalu". It was crazy and ill advised but the media stood behind MacArthur and never wavered and Truman hid under a desk in the White House and the setup for the biggest ambush in history was unraveling. MacArthur's sycophant general tried to goad Marines like General O.P. Smith and Lewis "Chesty" Puller into risky advances until the shit hit the fan at the Chosen. Marine General Puller managed to fight his way out of a trap and took Marine and Army units to safety but the politics had already entered the story. The liberal media still defended Truman and MacArthur even after MacArthur made crazy claims of nuking China and was finally relieved of duty (to a tickertape parade). The damage was done and the conflict lasted three years and ended up in an embarasing truce and we ended up back where we started at the cost of 50,000 American lives.

You are coinfusing MacArthur with Patton....Mac never promised to piss in the Yalu river.....Patton did promise to piss in the Rhine River and he did piss in the Rhine River and there are photographs of him doing exactly that.

What if Mac didn't claim "to piss in the Yalu"? The biggest ambush in history happened because of MacArthur's incompetence or negligence or "senior citizen moment". Mac took his entourage of reporters on a plane trip up to the Yalu to show that the Red Chinese weren't massing at the border but reports indicate that they were camouflaged under the snow and neither Mac nor the reporters had the skill or the eyesight to distinguish winter camouflage. At any rate the Chinese entered the conflict as they promised and MacArthur made wild claims of nuking China and we lost 50,000 (later downsized to around 35,000 by the Clinton DOD) in a three year quagmre that should have been over in less than a year.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?

you must not have understood my previous post
here:
we lost to the communist:
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Cuba
and---guess what?? the US is ok!
we didn't need to be there..it was a waste
we get involved in too much crap

Bay of Pigs--$$$$ lost
Nicaragua ???!!!

...first we are friends with and helping the Taliban/Afghanis --then we are at war over there
...first we are friends with Iran--then enemies with Iran and friends with Iraq helping Iraq fight Iran
then we go to war with Iraq !!!!!!!????!! WTF?

we need to stay out of a lot of these insignificant conflicts

Bullshit. We did not lose in any of those places. And you might bother to notice that we won the Cold War.

..
..we fought in/gave mucho $$$$/etc Nam, Laos, Cambodia--all lost to communism
we tried to stop communism--but did not
..we developed the Bay of Pigs--big stupid loss that not only wasted $$$$, but also embarrassed/etc the US
...remember 1975?

View attachment 193114

..we fought in/gave mucho $$$$/etc Nam, Laos, Cambodia--all lost to communism
we tried to stop communism--but did not

We fought Communism until the American people-through their pet politicians- decided to stop. We didn't lose anything.

...Korea was a win for the US in that the commies did not take over SK--but if you know any history, SK's government was much more stable than South Vietnam....in less than 2 years, SV had 3 changes in the head of state--and many more coups /attempted coups before and after--
one of the coups involved MURDER !!
...the US could not stay in SV forever....and if they invaded NV, they could not stay there forever [ but that wasn't going to happen ]..etc
...do you see what all this means?? Vietnam was unwinnable --totally ..there is no way they could've won in Nam

here's a comparison-contrast
tiny Israel:
very narrow battle front
surrounded by the Arabs--had to fight on more than one front!!
no retrograde movement because of the Med Sea
OUTNUMBERED immensely in all categories [troops/tanks/population/etc ]
the US sends NO troops/aircraft/naval/etc
yet Israel decisively defeated the Arabs
surrounded:

South Vietnam:
longer front and maneuver room
not massively outnumbered
the US sends 500,000 troops/etc
has naval and air superiority !!!
sends mucho $$$$/equipment/etc
for over TEN years the US tries to help SV--but there is no win/etc
NOT surrounded:

don't try to say the military had their hands tied--we bombed NV with more bombs than were used in WW2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we had air and naval superiority

do you see the difference?

...and, as stated before---the US is not going to win against China

Wrong. We didn't win in Korea because the war never ended and North Korea still exists.
We didn't win in Vietnam because our politicians never allowed the military to fight to win, Micro-managed the war, and was constantly coming up with idiotic ROE.