nbdysfu
Member
- Nov 17, 2003
- 829
- 29
- 16
Originally posted by scubamike
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The usage of Islam to justify the attacks on Americans is little different to Bush's Christian basis. Religion is always used to provide ultimate justification for one's actions.
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Except that Christianity is not geared towards terrorism and in its contemporary form in the united states does not condone it. Witness the shame of timothy McVeigh. Religion may always be used to justify what cannot be justified rationally, if you are religious, but few if any found justification for that. I am agnostic and don't find bush to be overly zealous. Though you could say he looks to God for solace. That is the outward impression I get from listening to bush's speeches. Bush doesn't use religion to justify his acts. Quote something where he literally says "God commanded me to do such and such," you won't find it. Christianity is not set up for him to do so.
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As for terrorism methods, I was talking about methodology. Targeting civilians to harm a militarily stronger nation.
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Targetting civilians is as old as warfare. Pre 20th century land armies not only involved tens of thousands of military deaths per battle, heavy encampments blighted the land in which they fought and civilians were harassed or killed at the mercy of the individual soldier or commander if they were fighting on foreign soil. Pre war of the roses whole cities were slaughtered because the guardians denied the invading force. General Sherman raped and pillaged through the south on the basis that it would ruin southern resolve, but they were already losing in military strength.
All the Muslims I know (we have many here in NZ) are very against everything the militants do in the name of Islam, which is a religion of peace (much like Christianity, known for Inquistions and Crusades).
They must see what is happening and be appalled that the contemporary acts of their fellow islamists in today's peace loving world are comparable to the darkest period in christian history, some four centuries old.
That is because they are more familiar with the use of force to decide anything.
All the reason more not to trust their judgement or answer to their calls for retreat. But honestly I don't buy that. There are many muslims who are familiar with the use of force who do not want to see it continue to be a defining factor of their culture. They are the ones to whom we should give a voice and defend.
Anger is easier to get to than the kind of feeling needed for passive resistance.
The easy path is the dark path to evil and from it no one has ever returned, but as a simple toe-haired midwestern farm boy, I must try to bring him back.
More seriously, anger is often fueled by irrational desires, radical Islam falls into that category. Simply by its being harder to come by, massive passive resistance is all the more genuine and therefore what should be watched for and responded to. There are 23 million Iraqis that can do this rather than murder their fellow citizens.
And those who are anti-American would be equally inclined to kill those who demonstrate peacefully (or infiltrate and incite violence).
Let's face it, if you are an armed militant what better place to attack from than from the midst of a peaceful rally.
On the first point , if they murdered peaceful demonstrators purposefully, I am almost 100% sure that would earn them enmity of most muslims, and we could easily use that to gather information and hunt them down.
The second point depends on the self control of those policing the rally. I think there have been several such incidents where a gunman in the crowd tries to rile the soldiers cordoning it and non terrorist casualties result. That is a problem we should be doing our best to ensure that our own don't inflict casualties, but at the same time we need snipers to identify and take out the militants before they kill the innocents. All depends on the morale and conviction of the soldiers to do the right thing.
Yup, NZ really is that beautiful. And there is so much of it. Most beautiful place on Earth and to date I have been to around 20 different countries....
Colorado is almost as beautiful, especially in early summer when the wild flowers are all in bloom. I'm probably going there this summer.
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The usage of Islam to justify the attacks on Americans is little different to Bush's Christian basis. Religion is always used to provide ultimate justification for one's actions.
-------------
Except that Christianity is not geared towards terrorism and in its contemporary form in the united states does not condone it. Witness the shame of timothy McVeigh. Religion may always be used to justify what cannot be justified rationally, if you are religious, but few if any found justification for that. I am agnostic and don't find bush to be overly zealous. Though you could say he looks to God for solace. That is the outward impression I get from listening to bush's speeches. Bush doesn't use religion to justify his acts. Quote something where he literally says "God commanded me to do such and such," you won't find it. Christianity is not set up for him to do so.
-------------
As for terrorism methods, I was talking about methodology. Targeting civilians to harm a militarily stronger nation.
-------------
Targetting civilians is as old as warfare. Pre 20th century land armies not only involved tens of thousands of military deaths per battle, heavy encampments blighted the land in which they fought and civilians were harassed or killed at the mercy of the individual soldier or commander if they were fighting on foreign soil. Pre war of the roses whole cities were slaughtered because the guardians denied the invading force. General Sherman raped and pillaged through the south on the basis that it would ruin southern resolve, but they were already losing in military strength.
All the Muslims I know (we have many here in NZ) are very against everything the militants do in the name of Islam, which is a religion of peace (much like Christianity, known for Inquistions and Crusades).
They must see what is happening and be appalled that the contemporary acts of their fellow islamists in today's peace loving world are comparable to the darkest period in christian history, some four centuries old.
That is because they are more familiar with the use of force to decide anything.
All the reason more not to trust their judgement or answer to their calls for retreat. But honestly I don't buy that. There are many muslims who are familiar with the use of force who do not want to see it continue to be a defining factor of their culture. They are the ones to whom we should give a voice and defend.
Anger is easier to get to than the kind of feeling needed for passive resistance.
The easy path is the dark path to evil and from it no one has ever returned, but as a simple toe-haired midwestern farm boy, I must try to bring him back.
More seriously, anger is often fueled by irrational desires, radical Islam falls into that category. Simply by its being harder to come by, massive passive resistance is all the more genuine and therefore what should be watched for and responded to. There are 23 million Iraqis that can do this rather than murder their fellow citizens.
And those who are anti-American would be equally inclined to kill those who demonstrate peacefully (or infiltrate and incite violence).
Let's face it, if you are an armed militant what better place to attack from than from the midst of a peaceful rally.
On the first point , if they murdered peaceful demonstrators purposefully, I am almost 100% sure that would earn them enmity of most muslims, and we could easily use that to gather information and hunt them down.
The second point depends on the self control of those policing the rally. I think there have been several such incidents where a gunman in the crowd tries to rile the soldiers cordoning it and non terrorist casualties result. That is a problem we should be doing our best to ensure that our own don't inflict casualties, but at the same time we need snipers to identify and take out the militants before they kill the innocents. All depends on the morale and conviction of the soldiers to do the right thing.
Yup, NZ really is that beautiful. And there is so much of it. Most beautiful place on Earth and to date I have been to around 20 different countries....
Colorado is almost as beautiful, especially in early summer when the wild flowers are all in bloom. I'm probably going there this summer.