CDZ The Academe World View vrs an Engineer's World View and the 'Incompetent' Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by JimBowie1958, May 23, 2017.

  1. JimBowie1958
    Offline

    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    47,572
    Thanks Received:
    7,213
    Trophy Points:
    1,870
    Location:
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Ratings:
    +31,342
    There are professions that are essentially academic in nature and tend to run afoul of the many limitations and pitfalls of an Academe world view. These limitations and pitfalls involve the presumption of unjustifiable axioms, the uncertainty of abstract testing, and the generational bias against new ideas disruptive to the consensus of the Establishment of that profession.

    As an IT engineer I have seen this numerous times when a person would move from an academic environment instructor to a real world shop where results have to be shown and customer criteria met. IT takes some time for the former academic to adjust to meeting more objective standards instead of merely academic agreement. What was considered axiomatic in academia is not so in the real world, the testing needs to reflect real world conditions as much as possible prior to rollout, and no one cares if this violates Boyce-Codd standards or not anyway.

    The biggest limitation though is the axiomatic assumptions that are invisible barriers to generating plausible solutions to real world problems. It is hard to argue with 'it simply must be true.'

    The political establishment in our nations capital is full of academians. People are considered qualified to lead if they have the right degree from the right universities with the perfect set of instructors, and little regard is actually given to the consideration of 'Has this person ever actually done such things in the real world?' And the ideas and arguments of the un-sheep-skinned doer is dismissed in favor of the academic who has written many peer reviewed papers on the topic and has a mile long resume of teaching in a dozen places, as if that were the equivalent of doing something.

    They often say in DC that so-and-so amateurs are playing checkers while the academians are playing chess, but both are games that work within a set of rules. The best Doers of history are those who changed the rules to their favor, the Julius Caesars, the Napoleons, the Luthers and Teslas. While the academics are arguing to the infitessimal degree about whether this strategy beats that one, or if some ancient writer actually said this or that, Engineers are moving on building bridges over dangerous waters, laying roads through wilderness and achieving the impossible. The Taj Mahal was not something that was the result of a committee of academians working together, no, it was the dream of a heart-broken lover who had conquered nations and built armies.

    Donald Trump is a builder, a Doer, not some academic letter wrangling snob. He has achieved what he has achieved by speaking plainly to common people, actually hearing their concerns, warnings and demands and MEETING THEM in REAL WORLD conditions.

    The academe of DC will never be able to understand the actions and speech of such men as these men have no regard for the shibboleths and special interests that lock the academic into inaction. While the academics play chess, men like Trump are playing Civilization V.

    And these academics will always mock men like Trump for pursuing what they know that they will never be able to do, slam him as incompetent for even attempting what they all 'know' to be impossible Gordian knots of Reality that men like Trump simply cut through.

    And the academics will always hate men like Trump for doing it.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  2. william the wie
    Offline

    william the wie Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    9,351
    Thanks Received:
    924
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Ratings:
    +3,003
    While true those who understand this argument already know it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny and Agree!! Funny and Agree!! x 1
  3. Borillar
    Offline

    Borillar Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    Messages:
    5,984
    Thanks Received:
    841
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +2,611
    I am an engineer also, storage and BaR. When I want to make changes, I have to provide specifics of what the problem is and how I propose to correct that problem. Imagine going up to your board of directors and telling them "I'm going to make IT great again." When they ask you what you mean and how you are going to do that you tell them you are going to make a big firewall and you're going to make the hackers pay for it. In addition, you are going to fire all the H1-B visa guys and send them packing back to India or wherever they came from. Then you're going to get rid of the company healthcare plan and replace it with a beautiful plan that will cover everyone and cost less. "Believe me", you tell them. When they ask you for specifics, you demure and tell them you have a pressing appointment. How do you imagine that would go over?
     
  4. william the wie
    Offline

    william the wie Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    9,351
    Thanks Received:
    924
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Ratings:
    +3,003
    Well the board of directors in the form of the EC and both houses of congress did approve the plan so your argument does not make much sense.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Borillar
    Offline

    Borillar Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    Messages:
    5,984
    Thanks Received:
    841
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +2,611
    Trump as a businessman is a doer and a builder. He is good at getting people to invest in his schemes, He got lots of people to buy into his presidential campaign and all he ever did was sling a bunch of slogans and platitudes without any specifics while pegging his opponents with infantile jibes - Lyin' Ted, Crooked Hillary, Low Energy Jeb, etc, and giving a focus for hatred with Mexicans and Muslims. It was all quite entertaining until the reality of having a president with no substance set in. Guess I'm just a tiny bit surprised that folks whose livelihoods depend upon facts, figures, and details would buy into a campaign so devoid of actual planning and detail.
     
  6. JimBowie1958
    Offline

    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    47,572
    Thanks Received:
    7,213
    Trophy Points:
    1,870
    Location:
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Ratings:
    +31,342
    I have never heard of a software engineer who reports to a board of directors, lol.

    I had clients who would give me a set of problems and tell me to fix it within a given time frame, and we would go through a process of entering the problems in our trouble ticket system, then I would sign out the affected files and make my changes with considerable testing. Usually they would not expect me to give detailed answers about how I am going to fix the problem at the start because we all knew that sometimes the problems are not apparently related to an obvious cause, and code changes would have to be made on a test and go basis.

    Most real world problems are like that. If you know exactly what the problem is at the beginning, then why wasnt it already fixed?

    As to your analogy, Trump is not a software engineer, so the analogy fails. He is a real estate developer and a fire sale exploiter of the first order. He has taken so many failed development attempts and turned them into gold by reworking their debts and leaving everyone happy.

    Trump is not giving specifics about how he is going to fix a problem because that is not how men like him work. Academics do that and they usually fail because their enemies have read the same freaking books, lol.

    Trump will act dynamically based on the fluid situation at hand, and not decide exactly how he will fix a problem months if not years before he can implement the decision.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  7. JimBowie1958
    Offline

    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    47,572
    Thanks Received:
    7,213
    Trophy Points:
    1,870
    Location:
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Ratings:
    +31,342
    That is simply a lie. Trump put up plenty of detailed policy positions. It is not his fault if libs dont bother reading them because it wasnt in the NYT.

    Yeah, it was so infantile it walked him right into the White House, roflmao.

    People like you will not ever understand real achievers who break the rules and get things done and that is why you folks hate him so viscerally.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Indeependent
    Offline

    Indeependent Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    22,294
    Thanks Received:
    2,017
    Trophy Points:
    265
    Ratings:
    +10,941
    You're having a discussion with someone who probably doesn't know Hillary's Platform.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. JimBowie1958
    Offline

    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    47,572
    Thanks Received:
    7,213
    Trophy Points:
    1,870
    Location:
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Ratings:
    +31,342

    The academic left do not believe in 'common sense' and for very good reason; it contradicts their ideology! :)
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. JimBowie1958
    Offline

    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    47,572
    Thanks Received:
    7,213
    Trophy Points:
    1,870
    Location:
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Ratings:
    +31,342
    You know, it is kind of like the 99% of Christians who have no clue what the Trinity actually is.

    Most people support parties while not having a clue about what is actually in their party platforms.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

Share This Page