Thanks to Conservatives, Unions will probably make a big comeback.

[VaYank5150]

Lose jobs? Yeah..some. But alot of what's going on is companies are firing people and asking those remaining to do alot more. And they are doing this while not giving raises or cutting pay. This will work for a little while.

And if you look around..there are protests going on in all those countries we are "losing" job too..and mainly for economic reform. People are tired of working their asses off and not getting a piece of the pie.

DUH??? And guess what, companies are finding out that the smaller workforce CAN in fact do the work of the larger worforce. It's called INCENTIVE TO KEEP ONE'S JOB. The union workforce has no such incentive. I have lived it and seen it. Their incentive is to get paid as much as they can with the best benefits as they can and get as many of their "brothers" hired. That's it.

Again..this will work in the short term. But people will burn out..and become tired of the 100 million dollar CEOs..while their salaries stay stagnant.

And they will get tired of getting a paycheck? I think not...

 

[washamericom]

I hope that was tongue in cheek, Washy...



but of course... still there are commonalities within collective and commune
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Seeing as your link refers to 'collective democracy,' I'm going to have to disagree, to find the title syncretic...

Paul Kangor, who wrote "Dupes," described Marx's ideas as simply the end of private property....

what do you suppose it would take to enforce that idea?

“In its many enthroned variations, from Lenin's 1917 revolution to the recent Marxist Leninist regimes of Africa, communism has killed upwards of 100 million people, 65 million in China alone. Courtois and his colleagues do not simply unfold the numbers relentlessly and numbingly. Instead, they painstakingly explore the many ways the killing was done-from summary execution to forced deportations, from mass starvation to the gulag-and examine its many pretexts.”
The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression
Foreign Affairs (Book Review); New York; Nov/Dec 1999; Robert Legvold;

Kangor also reviewed the most popular texts in use in American schools: not one included those statistics.

we know that marx was about more than just about about materialism, on paper his ideas are clear, perhaps even plausible, but never simplistic.
the fundemental root is anti capatalism and "safety in numbers", which also goes along with "spread the wealth". there is an ostensible overlap of working tenets. nothing can enforce the ideaology, nor contain the human spirit forever, even cuba is becoming capitalistic. and before you say "cuba is a socialist state", i know, it is.

 

[Sallow]

There's been a slow, long lasting assault on Unions over the last 40 years. Quite honestly, it's been successful. There's been a strategy of business voluntarily giving out benefits, a characterization of Unions being corrupt and a move by conservative politicians to chip away at laws protecting Unions. This has added up to the lowest membership in quite some time. This last push, however, might be the final straw. Of late, Business has been dropping benefits, the disparity in pay is wildly skewing upward, and layoffs have been occurring while companies are showing massive profit.

All this makes for a ripe environment for Unions to thrive.

You're about to be woken up to reality, my friend. People are sick of unions and shutdowns. They are sick of government workers not having to deal with the reality of ever escalating cost of funding government benefits they don't get and government workers don't deserve in an ongoing bad economy which is caused directly by and sustained by government.

The last election didn't wake you up, so I hope you're happy in your delusional world while the rest of us try to recover from the effects liberal delusions have wrought on us all. The people who support a Union driven socialist society are already on your side. You have no reinforcements coming. Sorry.

The last election wasn't about Unions or shutdowns. It was about unemployment and a 500 billion dollar medicare cut. It also was about the Chamber of Commerce nationalizing local elections.

Hopefully the Democrats have seen the light. If they continue to act like spineless yesman for the Republicans..they are out.

 

[Sallow]

DUH??? And guess what, companies are finding out that the smaller workforce CAN in fact do the work of the larger worforce. It's called INCENTIVE TO KEEP ONE'S JOB. The union workforce has no such incentive. I have lived it and seen it. Their incentive is to get paid as much as they can with the best benefits as they can and get as many of their "brothers" hired. That's it.

Again..this will work in the short term. But people will burn out..and become tired of the 100 million dollar CEOs..while their salaries stay stagnant.

And they will get tired of getting a paycheck? I think not...

People who formed Unions..were getting paychecks.

 

[Annie]

There's been a slow, long lasting assault on Unions over the last 40 years. Quite honestly, it's been successful. There's been a strategy of business voluntarily giving out benefits, a characterization of Unions being corrupt and a move by conservative politicians to chip away at laws protecting Unions. This has added up to the lowest membership in quite some time. This last push, however, might be the final straw. Of late, Business has been dropping benefits, the disparity in pay is wildly skewing upward, and layoffs have been occurring while companies are showing massive profit.

All this makes for a ripe environment for Unions to thrive.

You're about to be woken up to reality, my friend. People are sick of unions and shutdowns. They are sick of government workers not having to deal with the reality of ever escalating cost of funding government benefits they don't get and government workers don't deserve in an ongoing bad economy which is caused directly by and sustained by government.

The last election didn't wake you up, so I hope you're happy in your delusional world while the rest of us try to recover from the effects liberal delusions have wrought on us all. The people who support a Union driven socialist society are already on your side. You have no reinforcements coming. Sorry.

The last election wasn't about Unions or shutdowns. It was about unemployment and a 500 billion dollar medicare cut. It also was about the Chamber of Commerce nationalizing local elections.

Hopefully the Democrats have seen the light. If they continue to act like spineless yesman for the Republicans..they are out.

I think you are part of the disconnect:

Voters lack confidence politicos in either party will make needed spending cuts

Voters lack confidence politicos in either party will make needed spending cuts


Nearly three out of four likely voters think they are more supportive than politicians in either party of making the kind of deep federal spending cuts that are required to restore economic growth and get the government back on a sound financial footing, according to Rasmussen Reports.

"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 70% of Likely U.S. Voters think voters are more willing to make the hard choices needed to reduce federal spending than elected politicians are," Rasmussen said.

"Just 17% say the politicians are more willing to make the tough spending cut decisions, while 13% more are undecided."

Not surprisingly, Rasmussen found a big majority of the Political Class has more confidence in the professional politicians:

"Sixty percent (60%) of Political Class voters say elected politicians are more willing to make hard budget cutting choices, but 79% of those in the Mainstream feel otherwise and see voters as more willing to do it," Rasmussen said.

The news is not good for either major party, as Rasmussen said 55 percent of his respondents doubt President Obama's proposed $3.7 trillion 2012 budget includes enough cuts.

That last bolded? That's where the tea parties come into play.

 

[Sallow]

You're about to be woken up to reality, my friend. People are sick of unions and shutdowns. They are sick of government workers not having to deal with the reality of ever escalating cost of funding government benefits they don't get and government workers don't deserve in an ongoing bad economy which is caused directly by and sustained by government.

The last election didn't wake you up, so I hope you're happy in your delusional world while the rest of us try to recover from the effects liberal delusions have wrought on us all. The people who support a Union driven socialist society are already on your side. You have no reinforcements coming. Sorry.

The last election wasn't about Unions or shutdowns. It was about unemployment and a 500 billion dollar medicare cut. It also was about the Chamber of Commerce nationalizing local elections.

Hopefully the Democrats have seen the light. If they continue to act like spineless yesman for the Republicans..they are out.

I think you are part of the disconnect:

Voters lack confidence politicos in either party will make needed spending cuts

Voters lack confidence politicos in either party will make needed spending cuts


Nearly three out of four likely voters think they are more supportive than politicians in either party of making the kind of deep federal spending cuts that are required to restore economic growth and get the government back on a sound financial footing, according to Rasmussen Reports.

"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 70% of Likely U.S. Voters think voters are more willing to make the hard choices needed to reduce federal spending than elected politicians are," Rasmussen said.

"Just 17% say the politicians are more willing to make the tough spending cut decisions, while 13% more are undecided."

Not surprisingly, Rasmussen found a big majority of the Political Class has more confidence in the professional politicians:

"Sixty percent (60%) of Political Class voters say elected politicians are more willing to make hard budget cutting choices, but 79% of those in the Mainstream feel otherwise and see voters as more willing to do it," Rasmussen said.

The news is not good for either major party, as Rasmussen said 55 percent of his respondents doubt President Obama's proposed $3.7 trillion 2012 budget includes enough cuts.

That last bolded? That's where the tea parties come into play.

The "spending cuts" meme has been touted over and over again. And when you ask indivduals what they would cut..it's generally stuff that doesn't affect them in the slightest.

The big cheeses, the Military and Medicare..they don't want to touch.

The even smaller cheese, SSI, is vigorously defended by those collecting it. Of course..many of those people favor cutting it for subsequent beneficiaries.

How generous.

 

[VaYank5150]

Again..this will work in the short term. But people will burn out..and become tired of the 100 million dollar CEOs..while their salaries stay stagnant.

And they will get tired of getting a paycheck? I think not...

People who formed Unions..were getting paychecks.

Your point?

 

[jillian]

unions are for communists

Really? Is that what Glen Beck told you?

 

[kwc57]

There's been a slow, long lasting assault on Unions over the last 40 years. Quite honestly, it's been successful. There's been a strategy of business voluntarily giving out benefits, a characterization of Unions being corrupt and a move by conservative politicians to chip away at laws protecting Unions. This has added up to the lowest membership in quite some time. This last push, however, might be the final straw. Of late, Business has been dropping benefits, the disparity in pay is wildly skewing upward, and layoffs have been occurring while companies are showing massive profit.

All this makes for a ripe environment for Unions to thrive.

Characterization? Did you just fall off the turnip truck?

 

[The T]

You're about to be woken up to reality, my friend. People are sick of unions and shutdowns. They are sick of government workers not having to deal with the reality of ever escalating cost of funding government benefits they don't get and government workers don't deserve in an ongoing bad economy which is caused directly by and sustained by government.

The last election didn't wake you up, so I hope you're happy in your delusional world while the rest of us try to recover from the effects liberal delusions have wrought on us all. The people who support a Union driven socialist society are already on your side. You have no reinforcements coming. Sorry.

The last election wasn't about Unions or shutdowns. It was about unemployment and a 500 billion dollar medicare cut. It also was about the Chamber of Commerce nationalizing local elections.

Hopefully the Democrats have seen the light. If they continue to act like spineless yesman for the Republicans..they are out.

I think you are part of the disconnect:

Voters lack confidence politicos in either party will make needed spending cuts

Voters lack confidence politicos in either party will make needed spending cuts


Nearly three out of four likely voters think they are more supportive than politicians in either party of making the kind of deep federal spending cuts that are required to restore economic growth and get the government back on a sound financial footing, according to Rasmussen Reports.

"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 70% of Likely U.S. Voters think voters are more willing to make the hard choices needed to reduce federal spending than elected politicians are," Rasmussen said.

"Just 17% say the politicians are more willing to make the tough spending cut decisions, while 13% more are undecided."

Not surprisingly, Rasmussen found a big majority of the Political Class has more confidence in the professional politicians:

"Sixty percent (60%) of Political Class voters say elected politicians are more willing to make hard budget cutting choices, but 79% of those in the Mainstream feel otherwise and see voters as more willing to do it," Rasmussen said.

The news is not good for either major party, as Rasmussen said 55 percent of his respondents doubt President Obama's proposed $3.7 trillion 2012 budget includes enough cuts.

That last bolded? That's where the tea parties come into play.

The Republicans already know that they are on probation courtesy of the people of this nation...

Shame some of them still don't get it...

The House rejected a measure cutting an additional $22 billion from the Republican spending bill, as conservatives ran into a wall of opposition from the GOP establishment over the depth of reductions to federal funding.
The amendment backed by the conservative Republican Study Committee failed, 147-281, but not before putting the GOP spending divide under a spotlight on the House floor. Authored by RSC chairman Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), the proposal would have dramatically reshaped an appropriations bill that already slashes federal spending by $61 billion over the next seven months…
Like no previous proposal, the heated debate over the amendment drew a bright line through the GOP conference, pitting conservatives pushing the deepest spending cuts against senior Republicans who denounced them as “misguided,” “indiscriminate” and, in the case of Rep. Daniel Lungren (R-Calif.), “lazy.”…
While Republicans were critical of the measure, Democrats adopted an apocalyptic tone. Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.) said that while the entire spending bill was “irresponsible,” the Jordan amendment would “commit this country to an economic death spiral.”

SOURCE

Among the Republicans voting with Democrats to torpedo the extra $22 billion: Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy, new star Kristi Noem, and committee chairmen Dan Lungren, Hal Rogers, and Jo Bonner. The best I can do by way of spin here is that maybe this is a bit of kabuki by the GOP in anticipation of an increasingly inevitable government shutdown. Pelosi’s aides are already warning Democrats that the Senate and House may be too far apart to compromise and that a shutdown is likely (especially now that amendments to defund O-Care, Planned Parenthood, and Obama’s czars have been added). And government officials who served during the 1995 shutdown are warning the White House that if they don’t already have a plan in place to deal with it, they’d better get crackin’. Maybe Cantor et al. figure that if there’s not going to be a deal, it’s best to start preparing the ground for the media war over the shutdown by opting for the modest cuts. That way when the left screams “draconian!”, they can respond by claiming that the GOP actually took a “middle path.”

Politics as usual with the GOP establishment? They had better be very careful...or they will end up being fired again.

 

[Sallow]

And they will get tired of getting a paycheck? I think not...

People who formed Unions..were getting paychecks.

Your point?

See that jet over your head that you are not on?

That's my point.

 

[The T]

People who formed Unions..were getting paychecks.

Your point?

See that jet over your head that you are not on?

That's my point.

Why? Does that poster have somewhere to be and cannot afford a ticket?

Again? What's your point?

 

[VaYank5150]

People who formed Unions..were getting paychecks.

Your point?

See that jet over your head that you are not on?

That's my point.

You mean the jet full of people who used to get paychecks from running a union racket?

 

[Sallow]

There's been a slow, long lasting assault on Unions over the last 40 years. Quite honestly, it's been successful. There's been a strategy of business voluntarily giving out benefits, a characterization of Unions being corrupt and a move by conservative politicians to chip away at laws protecting Unions. This has added up to the lowest membership in quite some time. This last push, however, might be the final straw. Of late, Business has been dropping benefits, the disparity in pay is wildly skewing upward, and layoffs have been occurring while companies are showing massive profit.

All this makes for a ripe environment for Unions to thrive.

Characterization? Did you just fall off the turnip truck?

Yes..did you see which way the truck went? I am late for an appointment. And those turnips were delish!

 

[Annie]

The last election wasn't about Unions or shutdowns. It was about unemployment and a 500 billion dollar medicare cut. It also was about the Chamber of Commerce nationalizing local elections.

Hopefully the Democrats have seen the light. If they continue to act like spineless yesman for the Republicans..they are out.

I think you are part of the disconnect:

Voters lack confidence politicos in either party will make needed spending cuts

Voters lack confidence politicos in either party will make needed spending cuts


Nearly three out of four likely voters think they are more supportive than politicians in either party of making the kind of deep federal spending cuts that are required to restore economic growth and get the government back on a sound financial footing, according to Rasmussen Reports.

"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 70% of Likely U.S. Voters think voters are more willing to make the hard choices needed to reduce federal spending than elected politicians are," Rasmussen said.

"Just 17% say the politicians are more willing to make the tough spending cut decisions, while 13% more are undecided."

Not surprisingly, Rasmussen found a big majority of the Political Class has more confidence in the professional politicians:

"Sixty percent (60%) of Political Class voters say elected politicians are more willing to make hard budget cutting choices, but 79% of those in the Mainstream feel otherwise and see voters as more willing to do it," Rasmussen said.

The news is not good for either major party, as Rasmussen said 55 percent of his respondents doubt President Obama's proposed $3.7 trillion 2012 budget includes enough cuts.

That last bolded? That's where the tea parties come into play.

The "spending cuts" meme has been touted over and over again. And when you ask indivduals what they would cut..it's generally stuff that doesn't affect them in the slightest.

The big cheeses, the Military and Medicare..they don't want to touch.

The even smaller cheese, SSI, is vigorously defended by those collecting it. Of course..many of those people favor cutting it for subsequent beneficiaries.

How generous.

As I said, look at the tea parties, they are not walking away from any cuts. Over and over again.

Truth is few polling services, mostly because they do get hired by the big two parties, have done much polling of tea parties activists or those in agreement. When they do they find they are more educated and more focused on cuts and deficit reduction:

Tea Party Urges Drastic Budget Cuts

About an October Bloomberg poll:

...A poll by Bloomberg News has found that solid majorities of tea party activists and sympathizers favor raising the retirement age for eligibility for Social Security and Medicare. That contrasts with the fewer than half of all likely voters that support such measures, the poll found.


Tea Party Urges Drastic Budget Cuts
Thursday, 21 Oct 2010 09:59 AM
Article Font Size

By Patrice Hill

"Tea party" activists are exhibiting a fervor for budget cuts not seen in years, pushing to slash everything from Social Security to unemployment benefits in their drive to cut the burgeoning federal debt...


Tea party groups and candidates, while fractious at times, are mostly united in their demands for a smaller government that would provide less of the so-called "safety net" programs for senior citizens, the unemployed, the disabled and other groups that have become heavily dependent on government benefits...

A poll by Bloomberg News has found that solid majorities of tea party activists and sympathizers favor raising the retirement age for eligibility for Social Security and Medicare. That contrasts with the fewer than half of all likely voters that support such measures, the poll found.

While this country has not seen such attempts to control spending since Republicans took control of Congress in 1994, Britain, Spain, Greece and other European nations this year have been forced by the threat of a widening debt crisis to slash their public welfare programs — often in the face of fierce public protest.

The tea party movement appears to be the only constituency for such drastic action in the U.S. While most American voters are focused on the economy and what the government can do to make things better, tea party supporters view the public debt — not the economy — as the most important issue facing the country.

Nearly two-thirds of tea party supporters would consider cutting spending on roads and bridges as well as research funding for Alzheimer's and other diseases to narrow the $1.3 trillion budget deficit, Bloomberg found.

In placing overwhelming importance on taming the debt, the tea party agenda runs counter to conventional economic wisdom. Most economists say the economy could not endure draconian budget cuts at this time, and many favor providing further stimulus through temporary spending programs or tax cuts.


...

Of course this was before the last election, so we can see how well that analysis went. People are awakening to out of control spending and the consequences of it. Both personally and for the government.

 

[Anachronism]

If Unions would get their heads out of their asses, there is definitely a need for Unions, but today's incarnation of Unions...how much can I get, how little can I get away with doing, how difficult can I make it to fire me...doesn't make the grade.

Missourian, you have absolutely got a point there. One which I will not argue in any form.

HOWEVER, at the same time, these large companies have to get their own heads out of their asses and realize that worker morale and happiness leads to a much more productive workforce and that nickle-and-diming a buch of employees to death makes them neither happier nor more productive. Nor do the vast majority of other workplace changes which are obviously undertaken solely in an attempt to increase profits without any consideration of the employees or the customer.

As I said earlier, I've watched this battel from both sides of the fence. Neither side really has any moral high ground on which to stand. It's like a mud wrestling match between two obese slobs. The problem is that neither side is willing to even consider attempting to find a middle ground solution. Until BOTH sides are, nothing is going to change.

 

[Sallow]

Your point?

See that jet over your head that you are not on?

That's my point.

Why? Does that poster have somewhere to be and cannot afford a ticket?

Again? What's your point?

You hittin the whiskey again?

 

[kaz]

unions are for communists

Really? Is that what Glen Beck told you?

That's right, you know it's a lie because Michael Moore told you...

 

[Sallow]

Your point?

See that jet over your head that you are not on?

That's my point.

You mean the jet full of people who used to get paychecks from running a union racket?

Um..

Your point was something about people getting tired of getting paychecks or something..

Oh well..never mind.

Hulu - Saturday Night Live: Weekend Update: Emily Litella on Violins on TV

 

[Sallow]

Of course this was before the last election, so we can see how well that analysis went. People are awakening to out of control spending and the consequences of it. Both personally and for the government.

Well..lets just see how much this economy "grows" once people stop spending money.