Student of Ideologies - Hello!

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself' started by TimelessConserv, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. TimelessConserv
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    TimelessConserv Rookie

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    Hello everyone,

    I'm just a college student who wants to deepen my understanding of ideologies. I don't hide the fact that I am conservative, but I do believe I am one of the "relatively" open-minded conservatives. I don't follow the news and current events as much as I read ancient philosophers. I imagine people on these boards frown upon the labeling of people's views, but here are my pathetically optimistic reasons for joining these message boards:
    1. To better understand the ideology of liberalism.
    2. To become more nuanced / balanced / fair in my thinking
    3. To have this community weed out my weakest thoughts
    4. To have thoughtful members of these boards change my mind on certain issues. Perhaps in a year I'll have to sign up as a new user named "TimelessLiberal."

    I do have a website, but it only has a few articles/posts so far. I hope to write more in the following weeks. So far I have an article (dialogue) about Gay Marriage, and one about College and Conservatives. Visit timelessconservative.blogspot.com if you feel like reading amateur philosophy/politics.


    Thanks for reading,
    I hope to see you around these boards,
    ----
    Timeless Conservative
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
  2. Kalam
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    Kalam Senior Member

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    Welcome, TC.
     
  3. American Horse
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    American Horse AKA "Mustang"

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    I read your essay "College professors do not understand conservatism" and Jonathan Haidt's "What makes people vote Republican" with interest.

    Your essay seemed to be summed up by this paragraph: "With a focus on the common good of the family group, conservative morality is broader than merely preventing individuals from harming one another. As Haidt puts it, “it is also about binding groups together, supporting essential institutions, and living in a sanctified and noble way. When Republicans say that Democrats ‘just don't get it,’ this is the ‘it’ to which they refer." that paragraph in your linked essay seems to encapsulate the strongest and best case for conservatism, as far as it goes.

    I'm adding your material to my own collection of ideas about conservatism and liberalism in politics, which for me historically begins in ancient Rome with the beginning of political parties, or factions, the two proto-political "parties", Optimates and Populares. The Optimates were sternly conservative, above all protecting their status and authority, and the Populares were bent on expanding their freedoms at the expense of that status and authority, while still defending most traditions, adding some of their own, and institutions, as much as they existed.

    It's interesting to compare these "party" philosophies then and now. My own opinion is that in part of each of the two philosophies, liberalism (Democrats) and conservatism (Republicans), some of the best of those ancient proto-parties is still extant, and then as now both are needed to have a viable civilization. It may be that the duration of their existence is partial proof of that.

    For conservatives, it is the belief that traditions and institutions are important for measuring the nobility of our actions, and that they should be changed but slowly and with only the most rigorous debate. This strongly resembles the beginnings, and has grown more noble.

    For liberals, the belief in freedom and equality is still inherent in a demand for change, but today has little to do with autonomy. The “nobility” of their proposals for our society are only caricatures in today's world as compared to the ancient ones.

    The conservative philosophy has been improved with its hybridization with liberal ideals, and the liberal philosophy has been degraded with its hybridization with conservative ideals, with this result: In today's society the conservative is the proponent of individual autonomy, and the liberal is the proponent of the individual as citizen subordinated to an overarching government.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  4. JBeukema
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    JBeukema BANNED

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    define 'liberalism'





    You'll learn that your first point was naive


    Wrong forum for that.....

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    That's a short list; you want to go to LoR or the Dawkins forums
     
  5. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Not to worry. Eventually all that will wear off and you'll recover.


    Then you're clearly not a modern American style conservative.

    You're better off as a result.


    Are you kidding me? "Trying to cram people into political pigeon holes is probably this board's favorite game.

    Yeah, good luck with that. The word USED to mean a certain set of principles and approaches to governance, but nowadays it basically means that you believe certain things about certain issues few of which really have much to do with classical liberalism.

    A noble enough goal

    Oh some of us can do that for ya, to be sure.

    It remains to be seen if your mind is changeable

    I doubt it. If you really do get it you'll realize that the word liberal has become so hobbled with nonsense that it's no longer a useful label.



    I'll be looking for your posts here, instead.


    Thanks for reading,
    I hope to see you around these boards,
    ----
    Timeless Conservative[/quote]
     
  6. Bfgrn
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    Bfgrn Gold Member

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    The basic difference between liberals and conservatives: liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil...thus, conservatism is based of FEAR...the strongest human emotion...

    Conservatives
    "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats," quipped Groucho Marx, and in fact it turns out that personality differences between liberals and conservatives are evident in early childhood. In 1969, Berkeley professors Jack and Jeanne Block embarked on a study of childhood personality, asking nursery school teachers to rate children's temperaments. They weren't even thinking about political orientation.

    Twenty years later, they decided to compare the subjects' childhood personalities with their political preferences as adults. They found arresting patterns. As kids, liberals had developed close relationships with peers and were rated by their teachers as self-reliant, energetic, impulsive, and resilient. People who were conservative at age 23 had been described by their teachers as easily victimized, easily offended, indecisive, fearful, rigid, inhibited, and vulnerable at age 3. The reason for the difference, the Blocks hypothesized, was that insecure kids most needed the reassurance of tradition and authority, and they found it in conservative politics.

    Psychology Today Magazine, Jan/Feb 2007

    http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2006/03/block.pdf
     
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  7. JBeukema
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    JBeukema BANNED

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    I's say that goes right to the heart of it
     
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  8. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    If as you claim Democrats believe people are 'basically good', why do they need to be controlled by government? Why wouldn't they be able to make their own choices in what is 'fair' and 'good for others?'
     
  9. Bfgrn
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    Bfgrn Gold Member

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    First of all, I don't subscribe to right wing definitions of liberal...

    Our founding fathers CREATED a government, not a corporate entity, a war machine or a prison state...

    Liberals believe in controlling government, not the other way around. Government serves essential functions that the individual can't do on his or her own...

    "The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
    President Abraham Lincoln
     
  10. Bfgrn
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    Bfgrn Gold Member

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    AH... you say: "In today's society the conservative is the proponent of individual autonomy"

    YET, you define conservatism for what it really is; conformity and collectivism: "With a focus on the common good of the family group, conservative morality is broader than merely preventing individuals from harming one another. As Haidt puts it, “it is also about binding groups together, supporting essential institutions, and living in a sanctified and noble way.

    The Optimates were sternly conservative, above all protecting their status and authority...
     

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