Stick vs. Automatic, Revisited

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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Pittsburgh
Since I first learned how to drive, I have always been a proponent of manual transmissions. Our family car in the 60's was a Chevy sedan with a two-speed "Powerglide" transmission. It was slow and inefficient. It provided only two gears, ate up much of the car's limited power in a primitive torque converter, and it just bugged the hell out of me that when you were sitting at a stoplight, the transmission was always trying to push the car forward. Even a three speed manual ("Three on the Tree") provided better performance, better fuel economy, and allowed use of the cars compression to control speeds on long downhills.

Until recently, a well-driven stick shift provided measurably better performance than even a "good" automatic in a sports car, as well as better real-world fuel economy. Again, the stick was superior.

I am now fortunate to be able to drive a "state of the art" 8-speed, dual clutch automatic transmission car, and although I still prefer my 6-speed 350Z, I think the rational reasons to drive a stick have basically faded away. The fuel economy advantage of the stick is now almost theoretical. There is very little slip in the transmission, and left in "ECON" mode, the car is almost always in the gear that provides best fuel economy. My car actually shuts down at stoplights (something that I thought would be an irritation, but it turns out not to be), so the savings there is small but undeniable.

Performance wise, only a professional driver could match the performance of a modern automatic, especially when running in "SPORT" mode.

And you can't ignore the fact that the top-performing Mercedes', Porsche's, Ferrari's, and Jags are all sold with slushboxes, unless the buyer opts out and wants a stick.

So again, it is difficult to rationally make the case for a stick. On a road course, I personally would rather choose which ratio to drive in at all times, as opposed to allowing the computer to make that choice. And only the driver knows when he is approaching a hill, so he can get in front of the gear change and not have to wait until the car figures it out (if it actually does).

What about re-sale value? Will the used car market four years out shun the Corvette, Porsche, or Beemer that has a stick? What about Gen-X? I grew up with a stick, but they did not. Will any of them even consider a 7-speed Corvette or a 6-speed 911?

But I hate to make my own choices based on what "the next guy" might want when I go to sell.

All I can say is, I would still never buy a sports car with an automatic. It's like buying a three-wheeled "motorcycle." What's the point?
 
I started with manual shifts and was a fan of automatics a long time ago and didn't miss a clutch and shifting one bit. They are much more money to repair but I have never had to in 30 years.
 
I miss a stick shift, there's nothing better for control in snowy or icy conditions.

My car now has a manual option, but it's not the same. Still, in bad weather, I use it.
 
I drove a stick about 20 years ago. Other than the fun aspect, there isn't much of a case for manual. I just bought my son a Mitsubishi Lancer with a CVT, Continuously Variable Transmission. It's getting about 30 mpg and has decent power.
 
Every car I've owned since 1968 has been a stick.

My next car (if there is one) will be an automatic. As much fun as going through the gears is, sometimes I just want to sit there and steer.
 
I have one car with stick and one with auto. One is for tear-assing around on nice days scaring Mini-Coopers and the other for suburban meandering.
 
Since I first learned how to drive, I have always been a proponent of manual transmissions. Our family car in the 60's was a Chevy sedan with a two-speed "Powerglide" transmission. It was slow and inefficient. It provided only two gears, ate up much of the car's limited power in a primitive torque converter, and it just bugged the hell out of me that when you were sitting at a stoplight, the transmission was always trying to push the car forward. Even a three speed manual ("Three on the Tree") provided better performance, better fuel economy, and allowed use of the cars compression to control speeds on long downhills.

Until recently, a well-driven stick shift provided measurably better performance than even a "good" automatic in a sports car, as well as better real-world fuel economy. Again, the stick was superior.

I am now fortunate to be able to drive a "state of the art" 8-speed, dual clutch automatic transmission car, and although I still prefer my 6-speed 350Z, I think the rational reasons to drive a stick have basically faded away. The fuel economy advantage of the stick is now almost theoretical. There is very little slip in the transmission, and left in "ECON" mode, the car is almost always in the gear that provides best fuel economy. My car actually shuts down at stoplights (something that I thought would be an irritation, but it turns out not to be), so the savings there is small but undeniable.

Performance wise, only a professional driver could match the performance of a modern automatic, especially when running in "SPORT" mode.

And you can't ignore the fact that the top-performing Mercedes', Porsche's, Ferrari's, and Jags are all sold with slushboxes, unless the buyer opts out and wants a stick.

So again, it is difficult to rationally make the case for a stick. On a road course, I personally would rather choose which ratio to drive in at all times, as opposed to allowing the computer to make that choice. And only the driver knows when he is approaching a hill, so he can get in front of the gear change and not have to wait until the car figures it out (if it actually does).

What about re-sale value? Will the used car market four years out shun the Corvette, Porsche, or Beemer that has a stick? What about Gen-X? I grew up with a stick, but they did not. Will any of them even consider a 7-speed Corvette or a 6-speed 911?

But I hate to make my own choices based on what "the next guy" might want when I go to sell.

All I can say is, I would still never buy a sports car with an automatic. It's like buying a three-wheeled "motorcycle." What's the point?

Control, the ability to double clutch into a curve and slow with compression, and then pull out of it with with the higher RPM's, in short, the fun of it.
 
we have both

the rv is auto

the cruz is auto

the cobalt is manual

the dodge 2500 is manual

the f150 is auto

the dodge 1500 is auto
 
Since I first learned how to drive, I have always been a proponent of manual transmissions. Our family car in the 60's was a Chevy sedan with a two-speed "Powerglide" transmission. It was slow and inefficient. It provided only two gears, ate up much of the car's limited power in a primitive torque converter, and it just bugged the hell out of me that when you were sitting at a stoplight, the transmission was always trying to push the car forward. Even a three speed manual ("Three on the Tree") provided better performance, better fuel economy, and allowed use of the cars compression to control speeds on long downhills.

Until recently, a well-driven stick shift provided measurably better performance than even a "good" automatic in a sports car, as well as better real-world fuel economy. Again, the stick was superior.

I am now fortunate to be able to drive a "state of the art" 8-speed, dual clutch automatic transmission car, and although I still prefer my 6-speed 350Z, I think the rational reasons to drive a stick have basically faded away. The fuel economy advantage of the stick is now almost theoretical. There is very little slip in the transmission, and left in "ECON" mode, the car is almost always in the gear that provides best fuel economy. My car actually shuts down at stoplights (something that I thought would be an irritation, but it turns out not to be), so the savings there is small but undeniable.

Performance wise, only a professional driver could match the performance of a modern automatic, especially when running in "SPORT" mode.

And you can't ignore the fact that the top-performing Mercedes', Porsche's, Ferrari's, and Jags are all sold with slushboxes, unless the buyer opts out and wants a stick.

So again, it is difficult to rationally make the case for a stick. On a road course, I personally would rather choose which ratio to drive in at all times, as opposed to allowing the computer to make that choice. And only the driver knows when he is approaching a hill, so he can get in front of the gear change and not have to wait until the car figures it out (if it actually does).

What about re-sale value? Will the used car market four years out shun the Corvette, Porsche, or Beemer that has a stick? What about Gen-X? I grew up with a stick, but they did not. Will any of them even consider a 7-speed Corvette or a 6-speed 911?

But I hate to make my own choices based on what "the next guy" might want when I go to sell.

All I can say is, I would still never buy a sports car with an automatic. It's like buying a three-wheeled "motorcycle." What's the point?
I don't mind stick; but, prefer automatic in predominantly hilly areas.
 
I learned on an automatic, but my first car was manual...I had no idea how to drive a stick when I bought it. I remember my car hopping down the road a couple times as I was learning. lol
Automatic is more convenient, I miss driving a stick though.
 
I "visited" a dealer in Erie yesterday that had two Subaru's SVX's for sale. You may recall that this was a short-lived sporty 4-seater whose main attraction was the "window-within-a-window" design that was necessitated by the need to address toll booths. The SVX was generally sold as AWD, and exclusively with an automatic transmission.

Both SVX's were in pristine condition, but one of them had been retrofitted with a 5-speed stick. The salesman (not a technical guy) said that the parts had been lifted from a wrecked WRX. This one also had a turbo kit installed, rendering a claimed 400hp. For a Subaru enthusiast...what a car!
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Stick cars are like a dinosaur today. The vast majority of people don't know how to drive one; and most new car models don't offer the manual option. Even the latest top of the line Audi sports car only comes in automatic. ..... :cool:
 
Stick cars are like a dinosaur today. The vast majority of people don't know how to drive one; and most new car models don't offer the manual option. Even the latest top of the line Audi sports car only comes in automatic. ..... :cool:

The problem with automatic transmissions is they ultimately fail. Where as a manual, will run forever. I owned an Audi A8 that was an awesome car. The auto trans puked at 225,000 miles, yet the car still looked pristine. Had to sell it for salvage rather than pay thousands for a rebuilt tranny. Made me sick.
 
I "visited" a dealer in Erie yesterday that had two Subaru's SVX's for sale. You may recall that this was a short-lived sporty 4-seater whose main attraction was the "window-within-a-window" design that was necessitated by the need to address toll booths. The SVX was generally sold as AWD, and exclusively with an automatic transmission.

Both SVX's were in pristine condition, but one of them had been retrofitted with a 5-speed stick. The salesman (not a technical guy) said that the parts had been lifted from a wrecked WRX. This one also had a turbo kit installed, rendering a claimed 400hp. For a Subaru enthusiast...what a car!View attachment 131686
My son has a WRX. The car is explosively fast. Faster than an Audi S4 and provides very good fuel mileage, unlike the Audi.
 
The bride's cars are always automatic but I've never owned one for my use. I'm stick all the way which will include a Mazda MX5 I'm getting soon. Can't wait to work it out on our local road race course...zoooooom!
 
Stick cars are like a dinosaur today. The vast majority of people don't know how to drive one; and most new car models don't offer the manual option. Even the latest top of the line Audi sports car only comes in automatic. ..... :cool:

The problem with automatic transmissions is they ultimately fail. Where as a manual, will run forever. I owned an Audi A8 that was an awesome car. The auto trans puked at 225,000 miles, yet the car still looked pristine. Had to sell it for salvage rather than pay thousands for a rebuilt tranny. Made me sick.
You bitch about 225,000 miles on a transmission? SERIOUSLY?!
 
Stick cars are like a dinosaur today. The vast majority of people don't know how to drive one; and most new car models don't offer the manual option. Even the latest top of the line Audi sports car only comes in automatic. ..... :cool:

The problem with automatic transmissions is they ultimately fail. Where as a manual, will run forever. I owned an Audi A8 that was an awesome car. The auto trans puked at 225,000 miles, yet the car still looked pristine. Had to sell it for salvage rather than pay thousands for a rebuilt tranny. Made me sick.
You bitch about 225,000 miles on a transmission? SERIOUSLY?!
You misunderstand.
 
Stick cars are like a dinosaur today. The vast majority of people don't know how to drive one; and most new car models don't offer the manual option. Even the latest top of the line Audi sports car only comes in automatic. ..... :cool:

The problem with automatic transmissions is they ultimately fail. Where as a manual, will run forever. I owned an Audi A8 that was an awesome car. The auto trans puked at 225,000 miles, yet the car still looked pristine. Had to sell it for salvage rather than pay thousands for a rebuilt tranny. Made me sick.
You bitch about 225,000 miles on a transmission? SERIOUSLY?!
You misunderstand.
No, I understand completely. You operate unconstrained by any facts whatsoever, therefore make ridiculous statements.
 

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